[BTCC] Rounds 7, 8, 9 & Test Day at Thruxton, 2017

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Did I hear right that after Thruxton there will be a round of "performance balancing" taking place?

It happened before Thruxton.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

It happened before Thruxton.

Well, it didn't seem to make much difference to the Motorbase cars or the Subaru's performance. (Don't forget that Ash Sutton was up near the sharp end at the previous meeting).

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by MagicBoy

It's the same Mountune EcoBoost Ford. AMD ran that car with the original Mountune engine, Maximum stated they were updating to the newer EcoBoost when they bought the car in early 2016.

That blows my theory out of the water then! I'd expect Cook to be ahead of Depper and Davenport but I'd have thought Jackson would have at least been level with Cook given the same equipment.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Last post from me tonight...

I have been speculating about BMR/888 being in financial mire. Having done a little research I now know 888 came very close to being dissolved this March and Ian Harrison is no longer a Director. Last accounts (March 2016) show shareholders funds at - 700,000 (yes, minus) so quite a debt... guess that explains why there has been little testing.

Very interesting indeed. The only directors are the Scotts. It's sad, but the team has been on the decline since the end of the vauxhall works deal. I read a rumour elsewhere suggesting that Plato's issue is with the team and not toca, and is performing like he is as a result!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Last post from me tonight...

I have been speculating about BMR/888 being in financial mire. Having done a little research I now know 888 came very close to being dissolved this March and Ian Harrison is no longer a Director. Last accounts (March 2016) show shareholders funds at - 700,000 (yes, minus) so quite a debt... guess that explains why there has been little testing.

At the same time, the last accounts filed for BMR Racing show a shareholders fund of -2million

The outstanding creditors figure accounts for over 3million.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I read a rumour elsewhere suggesting that Plato's issue is with the team and not toca, and is performing like he is as a result!

If he is genuinely performing below par as a deliberate act - that seems like a very public 'toys out the pram' situation and something that would surely raise concerns amongst other teams.

Maybe he has lost all motivation, and now is just content to run at the back for a while until the deal(s) with sponsors expire?

It does seem like a big downward change in opinion from his blog posts:

'I’m very confident. The plan is to blow everybody’s doors off. We will without doubt have a brilliant chance of winning the championship this year'

'the new settings we’ve had to run have thrown a spanner in the works for the time being'

'We won’t know how well we’re going to go and what our true performance is until we get to Donington'

'the car’s not working as well, or as balanced, as it used to'

'The centre of gravity regulations imposed only on Subaru has brought us many negatives and we are still discovering new negatives every single day'

He does continue to praise the team's work in his posts though so doesn't appear to be publicly raising his concerns - yet.

[850Estate]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If he is genuinely performing below par as a deliberate act - that seems like a very public 'toys out the pram' situation and something that would surely raise concerns amongst other teams.

Maybe he has lost all motivation, and now is just content to run at the back for a while until the deal(s) with sponsors expire?

It does seem like a big downward change in opinion from his blog posts:

'I’m very confident. The plan is to blow everybody’s doors off. We will without doubt have a brilliant chance of winning the championship this year'

'the new settings we’ve had to run have thrown a spanner in the works for the time being'

'We won’t know how well we’re going to go and what our true performance is until we get to Donington'

'the car’s not working as well, or as balanced, as it used to'

'The centre of gravity regulations imposed only on Subaru has brought us many negatives and we are still discovering new negatives every single day'

He does continue to praise the team's work in his posts though so doesn't appear to be publicly raising his concerns - yet.

I'd be amazed if Plato wasn't giving it his all. He's just about the most competitive guy in the world, surely he couldn't sit in that car and not feel the need to wring its neck...

However, the more I think about it, the more it seems feasible. He's not been right this season, his body language, the car's body language, his results, retirements, pit stops, everything.

I get the feeling there is an awful lot going on behind the scenes at BMR/888 that we don't know about, and I get the feeling that little of it is good. Financial problems, team relationship issues, car problems, whatever. I'm not sure. Judging by the comments made by guys like Harvey and O'Neill on TV though, there's definitely a lot more to this than meets the eye.

[Northern Monkey]

For the record, on Church - Thruxton have already invested £250,000 in hardcore just to build up the run-off to where it is now and there is a lot more work to do before it is completed. I spoke with Bill at length on Sunday evening about it and will have something published later in the week.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

At the same time, the last accounts filed for BMR Racing show a shareholders fund of -2million

The outstanding creditors figure accounts for over 3million.

Subaru UK also had a charge put on the cars in August last year (and the data).Making Subaru the 'lender' and BMR the 'borrower'.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

For the record, on Church - Thruxton have already invested £250,000 in hardcore just to build up the run-off to where it is now and there is a lot more work to do before it is completed. I spoke with Bill at length on Sunday evening about it and will have something published later in the week.

Yep and I can quite see how Bill and Thruxton feel about the reaction to the change and the fact that another sizeable accident occured there and that it caused a long stoppage to repair. Circuit safety is a moving feast as the cars and racing develop and Thruxton is pretty much on the limit of the site there.

When JP went almost over the hedge there in the MG, wasn't it said that he probably needed a ticket to get back in!

[thlbtcc]

Gee whizz. This is depressing reading. I really hope Triple Eight and BMR can sort things out. Warren Scott invested time and money to make things work and I hope they can pull it off.

On the one hand, the series is doing great without JP at the front, as in the racing is exciting and competition close. But on the other hand, he's the man that has brought a great deal to the series in terms of publicity and sponsorship/car deals. For the BTCC's sake, let's see him on the podium at Oulton.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Last post from me tonight...

I have been speculating about BMR/888 being in financial mire. Having done a little research I now know 888 came very close to being dissolved this March and Ian Harrison is no longer a Director. Last accounts (March 2016) show shareholders funds at - 700,000 (yes, minus) so quite a debt... guess that explains why there has been little testing.

Old news mate 888 uk effectively went under last year

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Subaru UK also had a charge put on the cars in August last year (and the data).Making Subaru the 'lender' and BMR the 'borrower'.

Clever accounting or another Motorsport time bomb ticking? ....

[porsche962fan]

let's all be very glad that Colin Turkington left that madhouse

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by 850Estate

I'd be amazed if Plato wasn't giving it his all. He's just about the most competitive guy in the world, surely he couldn't sit in that car and not feel the need to wring its neck...

However, the more I think about it, the more it seems feasible. He's not been right this season, his body language, the car's body language, his results, retirements, pit stops, everything.

I get the feeling there is an awful lot going on behind the scenes at BMR/888 that we don't know about, and I get the feeling that little of it is good. Financial problems, team relationship issues, car problems, whatever. I'm not sure. Judging by the comments made by guys like Harvey and O'Neill on TV though, there's definitely a lot more to this than meets the eye.

I too would be very surprised if Plato is not at least starting each session on maximum attack.
I also feel though that whatever is wrong - and something clearly is - it will be more than just one thing.

Is the car too tricky to set up for all four drivers?
'by only making small adjustments. The closer we get to the top, the more we can see the Levorg is a fine precise little bit of kit' becomes 'we are still discovering new negatives every single day, lifting the car affects so many other things and nobody really knows'

Is there a lack of budget appearing? The limited testing and current filed accounts may be an indication of this.

Is it a team management situation? The overhaul of 888 structure alongside the expanded BMR disciplines must be a managerial conundrum. Also, Scott has said watching the team has given him a different perspective to when he was a driver.

Is it a clash with Menu? He is currently coaching with BMR, and Sutton seems to be responding well to this. Could he be pushing the team in a different direction to Plato's preference?

When it all becomes clear (if it ever does) I wouldn't be surprised if all of those factors and more are playing a part in the situation.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

On the one hand, the series is doing great without JP at the front, as in the racing is exciting and competition close.

I think this only adds to the problem for BMR/Plato.

The series is doing great without Plato or Subaru winning races, and everyone knows that Plato won't be around forever.
So whilst his star might be fading - there will be little/no incentive for the championship to do anything to keep them competitive.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Clever accounting or another Motorsport time bomb ticking? ....

I think most teams run on a financial knife edge to be honest, it is the nature of the beast - high costs, often uncertain income, quite risky revenue streams from drivers and or sponsors that may not pay and then the winter to get through. Unless you are very lucky it is a hand to mouth business and one bad year can wipe out several good ones.

The old adage about how to make a small fortune in motorsport- start with a large one - still holds true.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

I think most teams run on a financial knife edge to be honest, it is the nature of the beast - high costs, often uncertain income, quite risky revenue streams from drivers and or sponsors that may not pay and then the winter to get through. Unless you are very lucky it is a hand to mouth business and one bad year can wipe out several good ones.

The old adage about how to make a small fortune in motorsport- start with a large one - still holds true.

That has been evident in the past from other teams.

Examples I can think of are:
Team Dynamics' driver line-up in '09
Turkington not getting a drive in after his title in '09
Motorbase withdrawing for part of the season in '15

All of these seem to have come from teams cutting their coat according to the cloth.
Tony Gilham has faced criticism in the past for being too ambitious with his entries.
I fear that Warren Scott's coat might be too big, and there's not enough cloth to see it through to completion.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

d criticism in the past for being too ambitious with his entries.
I fear that Warren Scott's coat might be too big, and there's not enough cloth to see it through to completion.

he could just sell 2 TBL and accordingly reduce the number of cars for next season

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

he could just sell 2 TBL and accordingly reduce the number of cars for next season

If Subaru are invested in a 4-car entry, and there are reducing MG chassis', then could 888 become the junior team?

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If Subaru are invested in a 4-car entry, and there are reducing MG chassis', then could 888 become the junior team?

I believe that MG signed to stay in the BTCC until 2018? Quite why is a mystery as the MG6 is no longer sold, the current NGTC cars are old and battled scarred, I doubt any new ones will be built and in any event MG's focus is on SUV's and the MG3 'city' car.

[S griffin]

I think Colin has been the big winner out of this, leaving the team just before it becomes a backmarker. Although I do feel a bit sorry for Warren Scott, as he has been able to put his dosh where he wants to and got pretty good return out of it

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

I believe that MG signed to stay in the BTCC until 2018? Quite why is a mystery as the MG6 is no longer sold, the current NGTC cars are old and battled scarred, I doubt any new ones will be built and in any event MG's focus is on SUV's and the MG3 'city' car.

They did, but does the 888 they signed with still exist?
The Subaru deal expires in 2018 too, so BMR have 18 months to decide their long-term plans.
Is it more likely to see a 3+1 entry if contractually obliged?
The academy drive being run as 888/MG for 2018?

[crmalcolm]

Have just read Warren Scott's post-meeting comments. He puts it down to a lack of straight line speed, and also emphasises the open house for engineering data.
Plato seems to think the car isn't handling well, as a result of the CoG adjustments, but Sutton and Scott claim it is still the best car in the corners.

Unfortunately, the choice of Estate car may be the problem here - good through the corners, but with equal power to others, slower in a straight line than a hatch/saloon.

[Craner Curves]

The discrepancies between Sutton and the rest are baffling. Oulton will be a true representation of Plato, as its where we saw the car turn a huge corner last year and the first circuit they have data on from when they were genuinely competitive.