[BTCC] BTCC 2017 - Rounds 13, 14, 15 - Croft

[Akrapovic]

Very scruffy F4 race ends in a red flag. Lots of silly accidents.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Is there a driver on the TOCA package better than Sutton right now?

[Alfisti]

I'm saddened to hear of those injuries and hope Luke, Jeff and Aron make full recoveries.

It would sound as though Luke in particular has been very badly hurt; I would doubt we will see him up and about for quite some time.

The staff at James Cook are excellent (my brother had a life threatening head injury some years ago) and so the boys are in good hands.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

Wonder if TOCA will look at improving the side impact protection of the cars... Or introducing a safety cell within the cars, like in V8 Supercars.

ATS has just said that the fact his injuries are so minimal is down to the quality of safety in the cars. I can't see a need to introduce more protection when you see how well they already stand up to impacts.
If they were even stronger, drivers may become more aggressive as a result.

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

ATS has just said that the fact his injuries are so minimal is down to the quality of safety in the cars. I can't see a need to introduce more protection when you see how well they already stand up to impacts.
If they were even stronger, drivers may become more aggressive as a result.

If you improve the safety of the car with thicker side intrusion bars and stiffer roll cage then all you end up doing is transferring the impact energy to the vulnerable squidgy bit holding the wheel.

You can never make the cars too safe, as once the metal bits have bent to absorb the energy of an impact, they have little ability to absorb a second impact, that is what caused Luke Davenports injuries I believe.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

It's frankly amazing that only 3 drivers are battered and only one in a truly serious way afterwards (although Jeff and Aron are no doubt more than a little sore, I wish them all a swift and safe recovery).

Anyone wishing to see something done imo is just reactionary. What actually can be done within the parameters given? I'm not an expert but that was a freak accident. It's just a shame that freak accidents happen...

[porsche962fan]

no Neal haters on the scene yet ? to blame Neal but somehow give M Jackson a get out of jail card for the same thing

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

no Neal haters on the scene yet ? to blame Neal but somehow give M Jackson a get out of jail card for the same thing

Honestly, I was going to post something about this but I can't stand Crofts camera angles. There were some moves into Sunny in the support races that look completely different onboard than they do from the low camera view. Neals move looked pretty poor, as did Jacksons. But it's far too hard to see from that view tbh.

[S griffin]

Having seen the incident in the pre-race coverage, that was a lucky escape seeing the cars in that way.

Very clean battling by the likes of Turkington and Sutton, bit of bumping and boaring behind, but I've seen worse. Sutton had a disastrous weekend in Brands, yet now is in title contention. What a turnaround. Interesting to see him just get past Plato in R3 despite having more weight.

Tingram should now forget his softly softly approach he has had and go for it at Snetterton if he is to remain in contention.

James Cole, I feel for, he got in the Top 10 on the grid due to luck, but was holding his own in the race before getting involved in his team mate's incident.

Very proud of the weekend Motorbase had after what happened. Jackson was up there all weekend and if his move on the other Jackson was a bit questionable, no one could begrudge the win. Even Depper had a good weekend

O.Jackson also should be proud, shame about the incident in R3, but at least he still finished in the top 10. Also Rob Austin is having his most consistent season yet, with yet another good weekend in Croft. And MG must be happy with Cook's result in R1

What happened to Shedden in R3, he at one moment behind Neal, then he was just in front of O.Jackson with some smoke rubbing. He's racked up points, but Collard is looking good after gaining points in all 3 races

[luckn002]

Originally Posted by S griffin

What happened to Shedden in R3, he at one moment behind Neal, then he was just in front of O.Jackson with some smoke rubbing. He's racked up points, but Collard is looking good after gaining points in all 3 races

Going into the summer break, my guess is that Collard will be champion - a long time coming, and, in my opinion, this is the best we've seen of him, even doing (slightly) better than Turkington.

Also, I believe only 2 / 32 drivers have failed to score a point - Burns and Cole - showing how high the quality is this season.
Though we haven't quite matched the 10 different race winners this time last year.

Another terrible Croft for Adam Morgan who didn't seem to make the progress Moffat did - possibly something not right from the fire?
Very surprised not to see him win a race yet, likewise Jack Goff - both of whom seem to have disappeared after Thruxton.

The big question is now whether Smith and Davenport will be able to drive again this season - ATS seemed fairly confident he would be ready for Snett though the collection of broken MGs has grown ever larger.

Strandberg too is only racing at Croft at this moment, so there could be lots of driver changes over the summer...

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by S griffin

What happened to Shedden in R3, he at one moment behind Neal, then he was just in front of O.Jackson with some smoke rubbing. He's racked up points, but Collard is looking good after gaining points in all 3 races

must have been some contact where he lost out


he had 15 points lead and now he has about 11 points lead, not bad at all a real class of the FWD division

[VIVA GT]

Really pleased for Mt Jackson and Motorbase to get the win in R3. It looks like the cars have finally found the pace they were missing (at last, Martin Depper was finally nearer the pointed end), we just have to hope & pray for a swift & full recovery for Luke Davenport following the crash in Qualifying.
In general I thought the racing from Croft was pretty good, but I don't find the circuit inspiring to watch, maybe that's the TV camera angles?

[Matt K]

Now MG is in trouble again because they lost Aron Taylor Smith. I bet he won't return this year so 888 once again has to find someone to drive for them for the rest of the season. Any tips?

[BLiTZ]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Really pleased for Mt Jackson and Motorbase to get the win in R3. It looks like the cars have finally found the pace they were missing (at last, Martin Depper was finally nearer the pointed end), we just have to hope & pray for a swift & full recovery for Luke Davenport following the crash in Qualifying.
In general I thought the racing from Croft was pretty good, but I don't find the circuit inspiring to watch, maybe that's the TV camera angles?

Again the camera work was pretty poor this weekend, a mixture of too few angles and slow movement and the direction (again) kept cutting away just as the commentary was highlighting something interesting (you could even hear the annoyance in David and Tim's voices at times as the picture cut to something else).

I've been to Croft for a couple of different events and whilst you can get up really close at the first couple of corners and get showered with dust and gravel, I can say it's overall more interesting to watch on TV as you get to appreciate the speed round the back of the circuit and the heroic/chaotic attempts at moves at the hairpin where most of the more decisive moves are made.

This weekend's events were a real mixed bag. The FWD cars did well to hang on and if anything the BMW's looked down on straight line speed and traction. Sure Sutton was lighter in R1 but he was easily pulling away from Turkington on the option tyres.

Plato's car is still clearly not right, watching the on-board in R3 you could see him slowing earlier and seemingly not having the confidence in carrying the speed. It's almost like he's lost his nerve a bit (perhaps the reason why he didn't test Ash's car was that deep down he knows the issue isn’t the car it's him?!). The Subaru in general looks twitchy, this obviously works for Sutton's driving style as he looks quite comfortable on the ragged edge, and I did have a bit of a chuckle at the end of R3 when you had a Subaru on its home turf (excuse the pun) trying to out drag Jackson off road.

The racing is getting scrappy in the mid-end pack. Lots of damaged cars and people cutting and shoving, the AMD Audis seem to regularly have front end damage, and in light of Saturday's event's this attitude of "**** it, the summer break's coming up giving us time to repair the cars" shouldn't be an excuse to go smashing your way through the field.

[850Estate]

Few quick observations from that:

Ash Sutton is an absolute star, in fact I can't remember the last time I enjoyed watching a single driver so much. His move on Austin in R3 summed him up. Absolutely fearless, whilst somehow remaining sensible. I dare say you could just have sent him and Turkington's cars back out for the second and third races with just a wash. They raced exactly as it should be done. Only ever separated by a tiny amount, but rarely (if ever) even brushing each other.

The two Motorbase Focuses (or Foci) looked properly good all weekend. Depper had a quiet first race, but was absolutely flying in races 2 and 3. Jackson looked good in all three races, and it looked really stable through Hawthorn.

I've always been a Rob Austin fan, but he's impressed me a lot this season. He's committed and fast, but always races cleanly - and that's shown by the fact he's only two behind Ingram in the Indy standings. Off the top of my head I don't think he's had a retirement this season? Keep that up, and maybe grab a couple of wins and we could see him as the new indy king. That would be a popular winner!

Pleased for Jelley getting into the points. He's a perfect example of a driver being hampered by some poor midfield driving (see also Epps, Michael). Strandberg may not have scored any points, but he was competitive and clean. Can't ask for any more from a guy driving a car at the circuit for the first time.

On the straight line speed subject, the BMW's and Austin's Toyota looked slow. The Subarus looked pretty quick, as did the Fords. Looks like the boost realignment might have worked a bit too well.

Now onto the negatives. That crash on Saturday was absolutely sickening. I can't remember three drivers being as seriously injured as that in recent Championship history...in fact for a long time. I hope they all make a full recovery, but I'd be surprised if we saw either Smith or Davenport out again this year. Real shame for Luke in particular as he would've relished the Ford's extra performance.

Morgan, Moffat and Ingram all had nightmare weekends. Again. It was quite easy to forget about Morgan and Moffat during the weekend, as they spent much of it not on the track, or bumping around at the wrong end. The track clearly didn't suit them (and neither did qualifying) but I was expecting more.

Ingram's Championship challenge has totally unravelled meanwhile. Cook was deservedly penalised for his push in the complex, but that will be little solace to Tom. Was surprised at Cook's actions too, given what happened at Oulton last time out between him and Shedden.

The Norlin Chevys looked very, very bouncy round Hawthorn in the first race. They seemed to get thing sorted later on, but were still a bit further back than they would like. Newsham pulled off some lovely moves in Clervaux though.

Goff had a massively disappointing weekend. He seemed to blame the lack of boost on Twitter, but who knows. I really expected him to be scoring top 10s, but clearly something isn't right.

I'm not sure what happened between Price and Cole, but it was a shame to see neither finish as they had shocked everyone by staying where they had qualified. Price looked right 'on it' up until that point, but then went on to have an accident filled weekend.

Driving standards mid-pack were poor. Far too many people just driving into the back of the car in front of them. That's not racing guys, that dodgems.

Then you get to the penalties. Far too lenient again for me. M.Jackson should've been done for his push on O.Jackson (who enjoyed a decent weekend), likewise the Honda for the push on Collard. There we countless other incidents too where I felt drivers were overly aggressive. It's twice in a row now that the reverse grid pole man (Cook, O.Jackson) has now been disposed of rather unceremoniously by one of the 'big guns' with no actions taken. I'm getting sick of it now.

I'll end on a positive note, how good was the interview between Plato and Austin at the end of Race 3? Respect between both, a bit of a laugh and ending by both saying that they really enjoyed the race. Love it.

Best wished to Luke, Jeff and Aron - I hope we see them back out and competitive ASAP

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Now MG is in trouble again because they lost Aron Taylor Smith. I bet he won't return this year so 888 once again has to find someone to drive for them for the rest of the season. Any tips?

Don't see why he won't be back for the next meeting. It is 6 weeks away after all. Building another car might be more of an issue than his leg healing in time.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Given how the year has gone so far, how Mat Jackson was allowed to keep his win is beyond me. We've had a plethora of huge accidents this year already, and now pushing two drivers needlessly off of the circuit to claim a win is incentivised, because the win stood. Ironically it was Jackson, who over the years has moaned to Louise on the grid walks about driving standards. His teammate may be in an induced coma in hospital following an accident the previous day, but that doesn't stop him shoving cars off of the circuit here and there to get a victory. Rubbing may be racing, and I understand the desire, but that was too far. If I were a fellow competitor I would take note that if you barge your way to victory, it is allowed to stand.

It was nice to see Plato was back at the sharp end, but whether his car is good or not, there is only one potential champion at BMR, and that's Sutton.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by 850Estate

I've always been a Rob Austin fan, but he's impressed me a lot this season. He's committed and fast, but always races cleanly

Interesting take on it - I watched race 1 last night and I thought Austins driving stood out as unusually bad. There were several rear facing 'bumper cam' shots that had very close up views of Austins car as he bashed into the car ahead.

[850Estate]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Interesting take on it - I watched race 1 last night and I thought Austins driving stood out as unusually bad. There were several rear facing 'bumper cam' shots that had very close up views of Austins car as he bashed into the car ahead.

Admittedly I can only comment on what I saw right in front of me, and the odd bit I caught on the big screen, but speaking generally Austin's been involved in very few incidents this season. Whilst cars seemed intent on trying to ram their way up the inside at Hawthorn (where there isn't a gap, and where the cars understeer wide) he was one of the ones I didn't notice doing it.

[Akrapovic]

I'd like to see better views of the Sunny incidents. That low camera view makes even clean moves look like dive bombs. Not saying the drivers are innocent, but Croft has the worst camera angles on the whole calendar.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Given how the year has gone so far, how Mat Jackson was allowed to keep his win is beyond me. We've had a plethora of huge accidents this year already, and now pushing two drivers needlessly off of the circuit to claim a win is incentivised, because the win stood. Ironically it was Jackson, who over the years has moaned to Louise on the grid walks about driving standards. His teammate may be in an induced coma in hospital following an accident the previous day, but that doesn't stop him shoving cars off of the circuit here and there to get a victory. Rubbing may be racing, and I understand the desire, but that was too far. If I were a fellow competitor I would take note that if you barge your way to victory, it is allowed to stand.

It was nice to see Plato was back at the sharp end, but whether his car is good or not, there is only one potential champion at BMR, and that's Sutton.

I like Mat but I saw his move on Jackson and thought the same as you, but then again he didn't put the car out unlike the Sheddon move at Oulton. However the last one against Ash Sutton was, I believe, legit. Ash knew he would have to be much quicker to get ahead and pure physics means that both cars would need plenty of space on the outside of the track, which is why the kerb there runs out wide. They were side by side. If Mat had punted him up the rear then it would be a different story.

[Sodemo]

The BMWs and to a lesser extent the Subaru's didn’t seem to have the same traction and “jump” out of the corners that they had in 2016. This was the case also in Oulton Park. I can only think of two suggestions. The new 2017 tyre doesn’t give any benefit to the RWD cars in this respect, or that there has been additional meddling with the RWD cars to hamper their boost or gearing out of slower corners.

[AdrianM]

No issue at all with what Jackson did at the last corner. I don't think there's a racing driver on the planet who wouldn't have done the same.

Don't understand why the move on Ollie Jackson went unpunished as did the Neal move on Collard. Others had punishments and warnings for less in the first two races.

The RWD cars on the "prime" tyre were definitely coming out of the corners a lot faster than the FWD cars but on the hard tyre they seemed about equal.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Given how the year has gone so far, how Mat Jackson was allowed to keep his win is beyond me. We've had a plethora of huge accidents this year already, and now pushing two drivers needlessly off of the circuit to claim a win is incentivised, because the win stood. Ironically it was Jackson, who over the years has moaned to Louise on the grid walks about driving standards. His teammate may be in an induced coma in hospital following an accident the previous day, but that doesn't stop him shoving cars off of the circuit here and there to get a victory. Rubbing may be racing, and I understand the desire, but that was too far. If I were a fellow competitor I would take note that if you barge your way to victory, it is allowed to stand.

It was nice to see Plato was back at the sharp end, but whether his car is good or not, there is only one potential champion at BMR, and that's Sutton.

Am I the only one that finds this amusing? Complaining about drivers shoving people off then saying how nice it was to see "Mr Punt" back at the sharp end?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Thought the racing from Croft was pretty good, but I don't find the circuit inspiring to watch, maybe that's the TV camera angles?

Most of the tracks the series visit look the same from a surroundings perspective, and really aren't all that "inspiring" to look at, imo. I understand they're all in the English countryside, so it's a whole mess of fields, but yeah.

Re: side impact protection. What do these cars run for door bars? If it's the typical touring/rally car "x" bar, maybe they should think about putting in NASCAR style door bars on the drivers side.