|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
23 Mar 2018, 15:04 (Ref:3810163) | #1426 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,229
|
Double post. Something went wrong.
Last edited by bjohnsonsmith; 23 Mar 2018 at 15:06. Reason: Double post. Something went wrong. |
||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
23 Mar 2018, 15:17 (Ref:3810168) | #1427 | |||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,350
|
Quote:
Provided the helmet (and visor) are capable of protecting you from smaller objects, then the car only has to protect you from larger objects. So perhaps the Halo might be the best solution, if paired with the right helmet construction. In effect the driver is wearing the canopy already. |
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
23 Mar 2018, 15:42 (Ref:3810173) | #1428 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,863
|
Quote:
Large objects like tires? (solution... add Halo), small objects like springs, or rocks that may hit the helmet? (solution... ?stronger visor? Note: Make sure it doesn't make Vettel dizzy!), objects that get past halo but don't impact the helmet like suspension components (solution... ?upper body armor?) Keep building up those piecemeal solutions that continue to have obvious gaps vs. looking for comprehensive solutions. Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
23 Mar 2018, 16:10 (Ref:3810177) | #1429 | |||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,350
|
Quote:
Helmets have continually improved over many years, and are accepted as the norm. They should remain, but continue to be developed. With the sides of the driver's area, there is very little of the driver exposed - and this was most at risk from larger objects. The halo solves this problem. If it is considered piecemeal to have a halo, then what are helmets, gloves, restraints, HANS, fireproof clothing, rigid cell, deformable structures, tethers....? If a canopy is proposed, can we remove helmets, gloves and racesuits from a driver's PPE? |
|||
|
23 Mar 2018, 16:20 (Ref:3810182) | #1430 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,652
|
Just because the halo isn't a solid wall it doesn't mean it won't stop smaller objects hitting the driver, that depends on the trajectory of the object. Let's face it, the size of a goal mouth is massive compared to the goal posts, how often doe the ball hit those instead of going in?
|
||
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange! |
23 Mar 2018, 16:51 (Ref:3810190) | #1431 | |||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,229
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
23 Mar 2018, 17:51 (Ref:3810204) | #1432 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 913
|
https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/asse...-super-169.jpg
If you look at last years F1 cars, the drivers already sat very low in the cockpit. Surely a relatively low, clear screen, running all the way from the left side protection to the right side protection would be enough. The screen needs to be about the same height as the top of the drivers helmet. Nothing is going to penetrate from above the drivers head because the cockpit size, both length and breadth is too narrow. |
||
|
23 Mar 2018, 18:38 (Ref:3810211) | #1433 | |||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,229
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
23 Mar 2018, 19:01 (Ref:3810213) | #1434 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 913
|
Yes
Maybe keep the sides of the screen level with the highpoint at the front of it. |
||
|
23 Mar 2018, 19:21 (Ref:3810218) | #1435 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,863
|
Quote:
Quote:
It's called "Defense in Depth". You should not rely upon one single safety item. So yes, some or all of that may remain. It may not remain "exactly" as it is today if it is re-designed as part of an overall solution. It has been built up piecemeal. It has been additive with bits and pieces showing up over a long timeline. I am sure I have the order of addition wrong, but for the most part these have been added one at a time... helmets, belts, roll hoops, firesuits, fuel cells, safety cells. Occasionally parts of this solution have been re-engineered, but I think that F1 needs to stand back and look at the total problem as it is defined "today" and then examine the aggregated solution that has been created over many decades. If done as a clean sheet, is this how you would do it? My opinion is that the answer is "no". My opinion is that the Halo device is a "bridge too far" in this path of "additive" safety design. That now was the time to examine the entire solution in it's entirety. However I concede the point that F1 wanted something "fast". Mix that in with what I personally think was wasted time due to them really not making it a priority (from an effort/resource perspective) and that resulted in a knee jerk decision to implement the Halo device. Other organizations seem to be taking a more measured and thoughtful approach. Richard |
|||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
23 Mar 2018, 19:24 (Ref:3810219) | #1436 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 10,934
|
Quote:
This model is actually very good at demonstrating the issue with the halo. It would not have stopped Massas incident. However, the screen would have. |
||
|
24 Mar 2018, 15:51 (Ref:3810427) | #1437 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,452
|
Well having just watched the first qualifying from Melbourne my worst fears are pretty much confirmed. For me it was the first real opportunity to see the 2018 cars in any real detail and there is no doubt in my mind that the halo appendage is absolutely monstrous, what a faux pas by the FIA. That's me done for the season, I have no interest in watching these abortions racing; safe they may be, quick they may be but the F1 cars of today are Frankensteins.
|
||
|
26 Mar 2018, 06:40 (Ref:3810814) | #1438 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,791
|
Your loss. There's some great racing potential this year, it would be a shame not to see it just because of something as petty as the looks of the car.
Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk |
||
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
26 Mar 2018, 06:52 (Ref:3810817) | #1439 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
The halo didn't look good on the TV/computer screens. It looked even worse trackside. But from being just a metre or two from it, it looks absolutely horrible. Hideous!!
I wasn't a big fan of the halo before I saw the cars in real life, but I reserved a little judgement until I did. I absolutely, 100% hate the thing now. It does not belong on a F1 car. Period. |
||
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving??? |
26 Mar 2018, 09:19 (Ref:3810851) | #1440 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,397
|
I'm more used to it having seen it racing. Still would rather the windshield was used, but at least for me it now looks part of the car
|
|
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
26 Mar 2018, 10:38 (Ref:3810873) | #1441 | |||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 16,760
|
Quote:
Quote:
it is possible to continue to value the sport despite a hideous bit of scaffolding. |
|||
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides |
26 Mar 2018, 10:52 (Ref:3810876) | #1442 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 11,175
|
I've watched a few figureskating events where people have smashed their heads into the ice and suffered injuries. If you were to apply the same thought process to that sport as you would F1, they should all be wearing crash helmets and have neck support devices whilst parading around... Perhaps they just "accept the risk?"
|
||
|
26 Mar 2018, 12:24 (Ref:3810909) | #1443 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
There is so much junk protruding off every available surface on an F1 car that it is amazing that anybody even notices the HALO.
P.S. The teams all (most) run different coloured camera pods on the cars so that you can identify the drivers. Ferrari Kimi viz. green camera Seb red. RBR Max viz. green camera pod, Ricc blue. |
|
|
26 Mar 2018, 16:38 (Ref:3810988) | #1444 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,229
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
26 Mar 2018, 18:03 (Ref:3811016) | #1445 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,745
|
came across a link for the nose cone cam from Kimi's car at the start.
https://streamable.com/dwi1d with the Halo partially blocking the onboards and the difficulty in repositioning the camera higher and/or building a camera into the halo itself i hope they go for more of these shots during the broadcasts. not a perfect solution but a good compromise imo. |
||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
26 Mar 2018, 22:15 (Ref:3811096) | #1446 | |||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,593
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
26 Mar 2018, 22:26 (Ref:3811098) | #1447 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,979
|
So, the bigger the risk, the less safety measures should be taken.
And the smaller the risk, the more... What? |
|
|
26 Mar 2018, 23:41 (Ref:3811112) | #1448 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,229
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
27 Mar 2018, 04:01 (Ref:3811139) | #1449 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,527
|
|||
|
9 Apr 2018, 18:55 (Ref:3814490) | #1450 | |
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,004
|
I like my wife's description that the halos look like zimmer frames or at the opposite end of the scale, pram handles.
Personally, they remind me of those things you use to do sit-ups at the gym. |
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Closed cockpits | gttouring | Sportscar & GT Racing | 5 | 27 Mar 2003 22:59 |
FIA to introduce a 'spy' into F1 cockpits | Super Tourer | Formula One | 25 | 12 Feb 2003 14:29 |
A step closer to reality... | Gt_R | Formula One | 4 | 20 Dec 2000 07:47 |
Open v. Closed Cockpits...Why? | Heeltoe6 | Sportscar & GT Racing | 4 | 8 Jun 2000 07:04 |