Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 18 Dec 2006, 20:43 (Ref:1794009)   #26
sh1989
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13
sh1989 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
We have to see if there are going to be any european custumers. But i would say as off right now there wont be any Porsche RS Spyder at Le Mans next year.
I think Porsche would only support an effort if they are 100% sure that the RS Spyder would finish. And after the problems they had this year in Sebring the probably just want another season to develop the new Evo.

But only time will tell us what is going to happen with a Porsche in Le Mans.

But i am still hoping for a P1 Porsche.
sh1989 is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Dec 2006, 21:08 (Ref:1794023)   #27
dedalus5150
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Upstate NY
Posts: 32
dedalus5150 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by sh1989
But i am still hoping for a P1 Porsche.
Until ACO regulations make it possible for petrol-powered cars to compete fairly with diesels (at least in Porsche's view) they will not field a P1 entry.
dedalus5150 is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Dec 2006, 21:21 (Ref:1794032)   #28
sh1989
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13
sh1989 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus5150
Until ACO regulations make it possible for petrol-powered cars to compete fairly with diesels (at least in Porsche's view) they will not field a P1 entry.
Thats true, but i would say if Peugeot and Audi are going to dominate the LMS and Le Mans the ACO has to think about to revise the balance between petrol-powered and diesel-powered.
sh1989 is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Dec 2006, 22:00 (Ref:1794074)   #29
Hammerdown
Racer
 
Hammerdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
United Kingdom
Clevedon, UK
Posts: 402
Hammerdown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus5150
Until ACO regulations make it possible for petrol-powered cars to compete fairly with diesels (at least in Porsche's view) they will not field a P1 entry.
You don't think Porsche could beat the R10 if they wanted to? It wouldn't be that hard to turn the Spyder into P1 (a couple of turbos, some bigger wheels and tyres and some ballast and hey presto!), but Audi need to have their marketing glory for a couple of years before Porsche are allowed to have another go!
Hammerdown is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Dec 2006, 22:03 (Ref:1794079)   #30
KA
Veteran
 
KA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,402
KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!KA has a real shot at the podium!
Maybe they don't have to revise the balance between petrol and diesel-or at least not just yet..

If they've got 2 manufacturers fighting it out for the win, they maybe think they can afford to live with that situation at least for a while. The acid test might not come until the LMP1 privateers start to bail out or drop down to LMP2 en masse...
KA is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Dec 2006, 22:29 (Ref:1794099)   #31
Carousel
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location:
Washington, DC USA
Posts: 33
Carousel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerdown
You don't think Porsche could beat the R10 if they wanted to?
As the rules read now? No.
Carousel is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Dec 2006, 22:50 (Ref:1794113)   #32
chewymonster
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 626
chewymonster should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Fair?

You will never get completely fair performance with two different engine types. Last year in the ALMS the GASOLINE powered vehicles were much quicker than the R10 (later part of the year, because of the "performance adjustments [gasoline powered P1s running 143 pounds lighter than the R10]) If Porsche entered and beat the R10, one could say that the rules favored gasoline powered vehicles and vice versa until we all are racing fuel cell powered vehicles.
chewymonster is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Dec 2006, 23:14 (Ref:1794139)   #33
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 42,425
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
We should perhaps steer clear of the rules discussion as it is going on in many other threads.

It is interesting that Dyson have changed classes. I didn't see coming, but perhaps it shouldn't surprise with their history. They have got their hands on a great car. I'm glad they are one of the first to get a customer car.

When will they get it?
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
Quote
Old 18 Dec 2006, 23:17 (Ref:1794144)   #34
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
Well I did kinda see this one. Where does Dyson have all their ALMS wins, with the exception of 3, they're all in the LMP2( or LMP675 at the time). They feel that the Lola LMP cars are junk right now, and they want to win races, at least in class.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Dec 2006, 23:49 (Ref:1794170)   #35
chewymonster
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 626
chewymonster should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAshmore
We should perhaps steer clear of the rules discussion as it is going on in many other threads.

It is interesting that Dyson have changed classes. I didn't see coming, but perhaps it shouldn't surprise with their history. They have got their hands on a great car. I'm glad they are one of the first to get a customer car.

When will they get it?
One before January 22nd (Sebring Winter test) and the other in February.
chewymonster is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 00:02 (Ref:1794178)   #36
jhansen
Veteran
 
jhansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
United States
California
Posts: 6,699
jhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi
Well I did kinda see this one. Where does Dyson have all their ALMS wins, with the exception of 3, they're all in the LMP2( or LMP675 at the time). They feel that the Lola LMP cars are junk right now, and they want to win races, at least in class.
I don't quite get this statement. They used to run the Riley and Scott in the early days of the ALMS. And LMP675 was a secondary route to overall wins, which is different from P2. They have run for overall wins when they had the 962.

Now with that said, I do recall some people thinking that Dyson could run a RS Spyder when the program was announced. Mainly due to their past connection with Porsche.
jhansen is offline  
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 00:14 (Ref:1794189)   #37
jhansen
Veteran
 
jhansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
United States
California
Posts: 6,699
jhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
One more thought, I can't wait to see the RS Spyder in Dyson racing white and blue. That should be a looker!
jhansen is offline  
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 02:50 (Ref:1794246)   #38
dedalus5150
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Upstate NY
Posts: 32
dedalus5150 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhansen
One more thought, I can't wait to see the RS Spyder in Dyson racing white and blue. That should be a looker!
Amen to that! It will look much, much better than that nasty yellow DHL livery...
dedalus5150 is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 15:02 (Ref:1794759)   #39
paul-collins
Veteran
 
paul-collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Canada
Mosport on a good day
Posts: 5,147
paul-collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridpaul-collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridpaul-collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewymonster
You will never get completely fair performance with two different engine types. Last year in the ALMS the GASOLINE powered vehicles were much quicker than the R10 (later part of the year, because of the "performance adjustments [gasoline powered P1s running 143 pounds lighter than the R10]).
Right, the adjustments. That's what the ACO declined to do, though, where the ALMS felt they had to.

Besides, with the diesels, there's a much more direct tradeoff between economy and power - so they were hardly pushing the power envelope while the gasoline P1s were at their peak power. Witness that they just hung with the lead pack at Laguna, and then went almost an extra 30% distance at the end while the others had to pit.

Impressive use of the technology as allowed. I admire Audi's work, for sure - I just wish that the advantage given to the developing technology wasn't quite as obvious. As Chris said when talking about this switch, Dyson Racing just wants a chance to win or lose on the team's merit - hence the switch to the class where parity of opportunity is a little better defined.
paul-collins is offline  
__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean?

-Bill James
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 15:46 (Ref:1794799)   #40
AU N EGL
Veteran
 
AU N EGL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
United States
Raleigh, North Carolina
Posts: 4,418
AU N EGL should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAU N EGL should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Now only if P1 cars could run a petrol / gasoline powered 7 liter. Rember the Corvette 427ci UNrestricted, is susupected ( not tested) of 900 BHP.

and Porsches old flat 12 twin( bi) turbo 6 liter? 1100-1200 bhp
Both of those are some serious ponies that would put the Audi diesel to shame.
AU N EGL is offline  
__________________
"When the fear of death out weighs the thrill of speed, brake." LG
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 16:35 (Ref:1794873)   #41
eddsc
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 240
eddsc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Following up Paul's post - do you remember how Johansson blew by McNish on lap 1/2 at PLM? From memory, the Scot blamed the disparity in weight. But does 65 kg make that much difference?
eddsc is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 16:52 (Ref:1794883)   #42
jhansen
Veteran
 
jhansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
United States
California
Posts: 6,699
jhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddsc
Following up Paul's post - do you remember how Johansson blew by McNish on lap 1/2 at PLM? From memory, the Scot blamed the disparity in weight. But does 65 kg make that much difference?
Are you suggesting that McNish let him by?
jhansen is offline  
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 17:01 (Ref:1794891)   #43
eddsc
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 240
eddsc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
No, not at all. But bearing in mind the economy that the R10s displayed one race later, logically they weren't running at anything like full power/torque - which helped make it look as though the weight disparity was really significant.. more so than it really was.. perhaps.
eddsc is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 17:02 (Ref:1794892)   #44
TWK
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,306
TWK should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTWK should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddsc
Following up Paul's post - do you remember how Johansson blew by McNish on lap 1/2 at PLM? From memory, the Scot blamed the disparity in weight. But does 65 kg make that much difference?
That sly Scot!

The fact is pretty well accepted around the paddock, according to a furry friend of mine, that the current ACO rules simply do not permit a gasoline powered P1 to win, unless as a result of the most extreme set of circumstances. Further, there is enough "flexibility" in the diesel (trade off between power and economy), to easily overcome even the greater P1 weight advantage given gasoline engines by the ALMS. The way in which the Audi was able to win at Laguna Seca may have been the final proof needed. However, a friend of the Bear's was told before the race that the conclusion had already been reached that there was no way to beat the Audis short of a draconian reduction of the diesel's fuel allowance. That has not yet happened, and will not happen during 2007, so...
TWK is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 17:13 (Ref:1794898)   #45
jhansen
Veteran
 
jhansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
United States
California
Posts: 6,699
jhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWK
The way in which the Audi was able to win at Laguna Seca may have been the final proof needed.
And what way was that? You mean with its opponents spinning and penalizing themselves down the grid? Yes, rock solid proof.
jhansen is offline  
__________________
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 18:20 (Ref:1794951)   #46
Bob Riebe
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Minnesota
Posts: 2,351
Bob Riebe User has been fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhansen
And what way was that? You mean with its opponents spinning and penalizing themselves down the grid? Yes, rock solid proof.
I was just thinking, if pit rules as now exist, existed back when Porsche used to beat Detroit iron with fuel mileage; it would have been an odd sight: Porsches and BMWs finishing 1st to last car running and US cars would have to have a special prize money category based on first in DNF, or would that be last?

The US cars had to pit more often than the German cars. They would have been faced with he dilema of either run till dry, and lose the race, or pit for gasoline, and lose the race anyway, via penalty.
Ah to be, or not to be....
Bob
Bob Riebe is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 18:22 (Ref:1794954)   #47
eddsc
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 240
eddsc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
"When the ACO published the regulations for diesel engines three years ago, I called them and asked if they knew what they were doing. I am not an expert, but just looking at the regulations I could see that, with the air inlet restrictors that were specified, you could have so much air going into the engine that you could have at least 800 bhp. And don't even talk about the torque!"
So who said that?
eddsc is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 19:47 (Ref:1795038)   #48
JAG
Veteran
 
JAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
England
Posts: 10,500
JAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chernaudi
Well I did kinda see this one. Where does Dyson have all their ALMS wins, with the exception of 3, they're all in the LMP2( or LMP675 at the time). They feel that the Lola LMP cars are junk right now, and they want to win races, at least in class.
I wonder if they are junk, or is a link up with Porsche just too good to turn down, especially if Dyson has some insight on their future plans.

Another year developing the Lola followed by a Championship challenge in 2008, or a P2 Championship challenge in '07-'08, Porsche P1 in 2009/10.
JAG is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 19:51 (Ref:1795040)   #49
JAG
Veteran
 
JAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
England
Posts: 10,500
JAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddsc
No, not at all. But bearing in mind the economy that the R10s displayed one race later, logically they weren't running at anything like full power/torque - which helped make it look as though the weight disparity was really significant.. more so than it really was.. perhaps.
Who knows, then again Zytek and Creation didn't exactly have the opportunity to pressure the Audi late in the race (Laguna) thanks to off's and penalties.
JAG is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Dec 2006, 21:47 (Ref:1795178)   #50
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 8,827
chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!chernaudi has a real shot at the championship!
And that's one of the problems. These teams are screwing themselves out of opportunities. That was the same way with the R8. Audi almost never had problems, and when they did, something as bad or worse will happen to the opposition, or would still simply be out ran.

And I don't understand people using the fact that the R10 was diesel powered as an excuse for their problems. The R8 had a whole back end that could be changed in 4 minutes-no one complained( or atleast loudly). Then the R8 used FSI direct fuel injection, and made more power, and ran 1-2 more laps at LM than anything else. Again, no one complained. To me, the saddest thing about IMSA's competition adjustments(and the ACO's new rules) is that it gives too many people too many reasons to whine. Just like NASCAR of a few years ago. The only way to stop this is used spec cars-which is not what Le Mans type sportscar racing is about.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will Porsches LMP2 be able to compete for overall wins? Mal Sportscar & GT Racing 10 28 Apr 2005 00:45
New Luchini LMP2, including new Cv0 LMP2 (merged threads) veeten Sportscar & GT Racing 66 3 Sep 2004 05:27
Where did the Porsches go? Lee Janotta Rallying & Rallycross 6 4 Sep 2002 13:47
Bathurst 24hr - Too many Porsches???? Woody Australasian Touring Cars. 20 26 Aug 2002 01:35
some Porsches are more equal than others Osella Sportscar & GT Racing 6 7 Dec 2001 11:57


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.