Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides MotorsportAds MotorsTV (Sky 447)  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Indycar Series


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 18 Aug 2013, 01:15 (Ref:3291154)   #31
HJJ
Veteran
 
HJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United States
Hoschburg, just outside of Brasleburg.
Posts: 1,711
HJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.T. View Post
Which is fine, I guess my point is why aren't we making teams accountable for this current situation as well in regards to the aero kits?
The "League" said "NO" to aero-kits till Walker came on board (and it will be 2015 till they come on board). It has nothing to do with the teams. They thought they were saving teams money when in fact they were dumbing down the series and appeal to the casual fan. Which never got interested.
HJJ is offline  
__________________
It's great to be here!
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 01:52 (Ref:3291163)   #32
D.R.T.
Veteran
 
D.R.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location:
Sydeny
Posts: 8,447
D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJJ View Post
The "League" said "NO" to aero-kits till Walker came on board (and it will be 2015 till they come on board). It has nothing to do with the teams. They thought they were saving teams money when in fact they were dumbing down the series and appeal to the casual fan. Which never got interested.
Indycar had them in the regulations for the beginning of 2012. The teams are the ones who held that up for 12 months initially and then the ongoing delays year on.

Walker set 2015 date - following owner protests.

Chevy, Honda and Indycar by my understanding all want Aero Kits - the sooner the better but obviously cant do it on their own.

http://www.crash.net/indycar/news/18...aero_kits.html
D.R.T. is offline  
__________________
Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 14:47 (Ref:3291324)   #33
HJJ
Veteran
 
HJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United States
Hoschburg, just outside of Brasleburg.
Posts: 1,711
HJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.T. View Post
Chevy, Honda and Indycar by my understanding all want Aero Kits - the sooner the better but obviously cant do it on their own.

http://www.crash.net/indycar/news/18...aero_kits.html
Sure they can, if they want to establish any kind of a brand in Indycar other than a spec series. But they better hurry because interest in fading.

http://www.racer.com/chevy-honda-pre...rticle/307749/
HJJ is offline  
__________________
It's great to be here!
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 15:12 (Ref:3291330)   #34
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
Veteran
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 14,241
bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.T. View Post
Indycar had them in the regulations for the beginning of 2012. The teams are the ones who held that up for 12 months initially and then the ongoing delays year on.

Walker set 2015 date - following owner protests.

Chevy, Honda and Indycar by my understanding all want Aero Kits - the sooner the better but obviously cant do it on their own.

http://www.crash.net/indycar/news/18...aero_kits.html
Having read that article, I'm not surprised the teams want to delay aero-kits, if the initial cost of the DW12 has gone up from $385,000 to $600,000. Also teams have to buy replacement components from Dallara, which are more expensive than components from 3rd party suppliers.
bjohnsonsmith is online now  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 15:22 (Ref:3291335)   #35
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
Veteran
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 14,241
bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJJ View Post
Sure they can, if they want to establish any kind of a brand in Indycar other than a spec series. But they better hurry because interest in fading.

http://www.racer.com/chevy-honda-pre...rticle/307749/
Interesting article. Griffiths begs the question in the last paragraph,

“You could argue, if we look at it from purely a commercial reason for promoting aero kits and attempting to brand the cars with our own bodies, if we'd actually be better off taking all the money that we invested into aero kits and buy a better TV package. Would we actually get more exposure from that? It's something to think about, isn't it?”

But would a better TV package necessarily guarantee better TV ratings?
bjohnsonsmith is online now  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 15:34 (Ref:3291340)   #36
HJJ
Veteran
 
HJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United States
Hoschburg, just outside of Brasleburg.
Posts: 1,711
HJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHJJ should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.T. View Post
Not a relative article, it was written 16 months ago. Things/people/priorities (sponsors) change and TV ratings continue to fall.
HJJ is offline  
__________________
It's great to be here!
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 15:52 (Ref:3291345)   #37
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
Veteran
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 14,241
bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!bjohnsonsmith is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJJ View Post
Not a relative article, it was written 16 months ago. Things/people/priorities (sponsors) change and TV ratings continue to fall.
It's relevant in that shows how much the cost of the car has gone up and it highlights the replacement components issue.
bjohnsonsmith is online now  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 16:15 (Ref:3291353)   #38
codename_47
Veteran
 
codename_47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Coventry/Birmingham
Posts: 1,099
codename_47 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcodename_47 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think we have to understand the "the casual fan doesn't care about the looks" argument is a fallacy that just doesn't hold up.

I run the Birmingham outlet of the F1InPubs national gathering (all F1 races live in a pub, in a location near YOU ) and for the last 2 years after the Monaco GP we convinced the pub to also show the Indy 500 for those that wanted to stick around.
The first thing someone said last year when the intro started was "is THAT was the cars look like?" while pulling a face.
This included casual F1-only fans right up to dedicated fans who have attended races at all levels of the sport (including the Rockinham Champcar rounds...)

After someone crashed in the early goings the jokes were about how the impact with the wall might improve their looks.
And this was during 2012 when F1 was running the ugly stepped noses (and a lot of people commented how ugly those were too, but still with that design they looked ten times better)

It took me back to when I first saw Champcar nearly 15 years ago now, how I was captivated by the cars that looked like a meaner, better looking F1 car and how that grabbed my attention first before the great racing kept me watching.

Make the cars look better and you might at least have a potential new fan stick around to gaze at them for a few laps, and hopefully the good racing they're putting on at the moment will keep them and turn them into future hardcore
codename_47 is offline  
__________________
We need to win like you need to breathe....
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 16:51 (Ref:3291366)   #39
mountainstar
Veteran
 
mountainstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
United States
Posts: 6,798
mountainstar should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz View Post
The Dallara 'factory' is a joke whose only real American job creation has been a coffee shop that is the main attraction in it.
IRC we were spun in 2010 that there would be 50-80 jobs created and as I recall some state money was involved in making this "manufacturing plant" happen as well as the land being bought for a premium. A few people I talked to a few years ago when it was happening said it was about as sleazy as a deal it could be.
mountainstar is offline  
__________________
Wolverines!
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 17:00 (Ref:3291372)   #40
mountainstar
Veteran
 
mountainstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
United States
Posts: 6,798
mountainstar should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
Having read that article, I'm not surprised the teams want to delay aero-kits, if the initial cost of the DW12 has gone up from $385,000 to $600,000. Also teams have to buy replacement components from Dallara, which are more expensive than components from 3rd party suppliers.
There used to be a cottage industry of suppliers in indianapolis that would turn out parts for cars and those are either out of business or diversified elsewhere into other businesses.

It's the same with the teams. Most teams now have to lay off a good part of their workforce after the season because there is nothing to do. No new parts to test, no new developments to test, no new chassis like they used to get every year that was a development of the previous model.

So the workforce for these teams is a mix of young inexperienced people looking to build a resume so they can get a "real job" in Nascar or oldsters that have already made their money/pension and are working the circuit for half the year to make some money and still stay involved while having some retirement time the rest of the year.

Once the season ends here shortly(whenever that is as I have no idea what the schedule is), the indy racing league will enter a black hole for the next 6 months with no news at all to report.
mountainstar is offline  
__________________
Wolverines!
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 17:14 (Ref:3291380)   #41
mountainstar
Veteran
 
mountainstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
United States
Posts: 6,798
mountainstar should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
Interesting article. Griffiths begs the question in the last paragraph,

“You could argue, if we look at it from purely a commercial reason for promoting aero kits and attempting to brand the cars with our own bodies, if we'd actually be better off taking all the money that we invested into aero kits and buy a better TV package. Would we actually get more exposure from that? It's something to think about, isn't it?”

But would a better TV package necessarily guarantee better TV ratings?
I do think the looks is a problem with this car, but I think the big problem is the horsepower. These cars run 550hp and they are dumbed down to take the rent a drive driver from Europe that finished 23rd in the World Series by Renault.

Back years ago the horsepower was 900hp on average, the cars were hard to drive and not everyone could drive them well. But most important of all they were spectacular to watch.

So all the flogging with branches the series does on all these useless issues is a waste of time. No one wants to watch or will watch because the product just sucks. These drivers are not challenged and they are not fun to watch.

Until they fix that core problem all the beating about the bush with stuff like the TV deal is a waste of time. To sell something, first you have to have something worth selling.
mountainstar is offline  
__________________
Wolverines!
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 17:29 (Ref:3291394)   #42
codename_47
Veteran
 
codename_47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Coventry/Birmingham
Posts: 1,099
codename_47 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcodename_47 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
^Agreed.

I used to think everyone understood that less grip and more horsepower was the formula for great racing.

Now that more and more series are running huge amounts of downforce and little power to make up, I have to wonder if that's an old fashioned view of racing?

I know the reasons the IRL and then Indycar kept backing off on the power (keeping the cars on the ground for the ovals, despite the fact their wonky high downforce package was the reason those cars went flying and stayed airborne more than any other racing car in history) but it seems with the current packless oval racing, those days are behind us, so it really is time to start inching forward on the horsepower stakes imo.
codename_47 is offline  
__________________
We need to win like you need to breathe....
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 18:19 (Ref:3291413)   #43
FordCosworthPanoz
Veteran
 
FordCosworthPanoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Bermuda
Flatts Village
Posts: 4,016
FordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainstar View Post
IRC we were spun in 2010 that there would be 50-80 jobs created and as I recall some state money was involved in making this "manufacturing plant" happen as well as the land being bought for a premium. A few people I talked to a few years ago when it was happening said it was about as sleazy as a deal it could be.
All part of the 'Speedway Indiana Redevelopment' thing, don't see why bother, the area around IMS has basically become a ghetto that looks like it belongs in a Fallout video game. Mind you, who would want to live next to the correctly named "Coke" Lot even if you had to deal with that human filth only twice a year. It's no surprise nothings really developed around the track compared to say Daytona where the crazies are mostly in the infield.
FordCosworthPanoz is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Aug 2013, 06:36 (Ref:3291589)   #44
D.R.T.
Veteran
 
D.R.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location:
Sydeny
Posts: 8,447
D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by HJJ View Post
Not a relative article, it was written 16 months ago. Things/people/priorities (sponsors) change and TV ratings continue to fall.
Relevant article in that is showed that it was the teams resisting aero packages and not Indycar as you had stated in your post earlier.
D.R.T. is offline  
__________________
Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2013, 14:49 (Ref:3295740)   #45
Marcus666
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Sweden
Posts: 286
Marcus666 has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Speaking of the Champ Car situation back in 2007, It looked IMO better on "paper" than what Indycar actually is today. What was the final straw to the series, the departure of Allmendinger and Bourdais? Did the cost of the Panoz chassis escalate through the roof?
Marcus666 is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The current state of affairs in Europe I Rosputnik Road Car Forum 4 20 Jul 2012 18:53
State of IndyCar NaBUru38 Indycar Series 28 24 Oct 2011 19:18
Alonso's current state of mind nycuk Formula One 80 19 Oct 2007 07:44
2005 Grid - the current state of play Kicking-back Formula One 1 16 Jan 2005 19:06


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 13:31.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.