March 73A - Ecurie Santos Racing

[JohnHenderson]

Can anyone help me find out a bit about my 1973 F5000? It was one of 7 F5000s built by Ecurie Santos Racing of Edgeware in 1973, under long-standing agreement with March, and has the factory-agreed chassis stamp 73A ESR1 (plus Arch Motors' stamp AM725/13X). It has a narrow F2-style nose, rather than the usual full-width one on other 73As and side rads at the rear. Papers with the car state it was originally the John Cannon car (is this the 725 he got pole in on it's debut at Nivelles in 1972?) and that it was rented to John Gunn by ESR while his 73A was being built by March. It's not mentioned as a 73A in Klopfer's "F5000 in Europe" book (but that only lists the top ten in each race) or in Cowdrey's "F5000 A-Z". Does anyone know where I could find Clive Santos or Sandy Jock Tobin of ESR? Or does anyone remember seeing the car in the 1970's or indeed recall anything about the car before ESR sold it to Ray Gibbs in Australia in 1978? Where did it race in 1973-8? Who drove it? I'd be very grateful for any recollections or suggestions! Meanwhile, it's back to the Scotch-Brite...! Cheers, John

[allenbrown]

Hi John

Sorry I haven't been able to answer your email yet. You say one of seven F5000s built by ESR - where did this information come from? I have no record of this car racing - or even existing - until just a few years ago so I'll be very interested to see what can be turned up. Even the report that ESR sold it to Gibbs in 1978 is heresay as ESR had ceased to exist long before 1978. Do you have any documentation relating to that 1978 sale? There are some suggestions of cars being built by ESR in period but nothing seems to turn up on a race track except (IIRC) an Atlantic.

Gibbs did enter a March of some description in Australia in 1981 but I don't know if that was your car - I understand Ray claims to have had several F5000 Marchs.

I was last in touch with Sandy Topin about ten years ago when he was working as a plane restorer in Essex. I'll see if I can dig out my notes.

Allen

[JohnHenderson]

Hi Allen,
There is a 1999 letter from Sandy Topin among the papers, setting out the background to the ESR operation (relationship with March in general and Robin Heard in particular, some details of 7 F5000's built by ESR, ex-John Cannon, ex-F1s, etc etc), plus copy ESR Autosport ad 28 June 1973 for the car in re-build along with other F1/F5000s, and reference to the ESR 1978 sale to Ray Gibbs. A 1997 letter from Ray tells the story from his purchase of mine and other cars from ESR in 1978, details the F5000's bit of minor competition in Australia, then it lived in a museum in Oz for many years. There's more background stuff, but nothing about the car's history '73-'78. When I've finished cleaning it (!), I'll have photos available.
Any assistance/suggestions greatly appreciated!
John

[allenbrown]

John

I'd be very interested to see those two letters from Sandy and from Ray as they may help clear up the history of the other cars that Ray has had. It might even clear up which car Russell Davidson drove for him in 1981/82. I'm still amazed that ESR built seven F5000s but if that's what Sandy says, who am I to disagree.

Any chance you could email me a copy to allen@oldracingcars.com?

If ESR sold your car to Ray in 1978, that implies it was in ESR's possession from the time it was built right through to 1978. In which case, it's distinctly possible that it never raced at all during that time. I can't find any appearances of a ESR March in UK F5000.

Photographs of the can before you clean it will be of great interest. Cars can arouse suspicions if they are too clean when they first reappear.

Allen

[JohnHenderson]

Allen,
I've dropped you a line to your email address. Unfortunately I can't email the letters but I can fax them (along with the 1973 Autosport ad).
Among other things Ray's letter states:
"The known history of the car (is) that it was leased to John Gunn to race while he was waiting delivery of his 73A to take back to America. The car was run as a Rent-A-Car scheme without much success."
So maybe nobody drove it at all between 1973 and 1978. But could ESR afford to have cars like this lying around for 5 years? What about libre, sprints, hillclimbs etc? Hopefully there's a marshall or spectator or fellow competitor out there in ten-tenths land who remembers it!
Do you know how I might contact John Gunn to ask if he ever drove it?
John

[JohnHenderson]

Allen,
One other detail: Ray Gibbs 1997 letter states "The attached F5000 was purchased along with other cars from Mr Jock Tobin of Ecurie Santos Racing in early 1978". This led me to assume that ESR sold it to Ray, but if, as you say, ESR were long out of business by 1978, Sandy/Jock must have been acting on his own account. It would be great if you could find him as I'm sure he could tell me everything I need to know.
John

[Bryan Miller]

John Henderson , where are you located in Australia ???

Allen,

Re 732-15
A

The paperwork with this car includes a letter from Ray Gibbs who advises he purchased the above in September 1978 from Jock Tobin [ Ecurie Santos ] bought to Australia in 1979 , and he was approached by Russell Davidson to lease car for the Arco Graphite Series which was agreed to.
Approx 12 months later Davidson purchased car , with a proviso that Gibbs had first right of refusal on later sale.
In Nov. 1986 this was taken up by Gibbs and he re-purchased car in dismantled condition. The car stayed in Gibbs posession until Dec. 1994 when it was sold to Ron Cullen of Sydney.

Many Autosport adverts by Santos , e.g. July 19 , 1973 .

March 721X , being fitted with F5000 rear end , Chevrolet and DG 300 , front rad. new type nose etc.
March 721 , F1/F5000 , chassis 1 .
March 721 F1 / Eiffeland .

The above cars are all fitted with full house Chevrolets , MK2 DG300's etc.etc.

Another advert.

Autosport March 29 . 1973.

721 March F5000 , chassis No 1 sold , no 2 now available .
713 March , modified and updated to suit F5000 or Libre , offers.

Autosport Nov. 14 1974 .

1973 F1 March ex Jean Pierre Jarier , completely reconditioned and nearing completion , rolling chassis last used Watkins Glen 1973.

F5000 , March rolling chassis . no ESR 1 , brand new with DG.

Probably the most convincing advert is as follows.

Dec 6th 1973.

Cars ,

March 713.
March 732.
March 722.
March 721 F5000 choice of three.
March 721X converted for Chevrolet engine.
March 73A ex Cannon with Rover eng. DG or FT
March 73S sports car , ex Jody Schenker with FT or DG.
March 722 modified rear bulkhead to suit V8 BRM 2 litre 4 cam with or without engine and box.

Happy hunting , Bryan.

[allenbrown]

When I originally saw these adverts, I wondered how much work had been done to these cars for them to be "converted for Chevrolet engine" or "updated to suit F5000". He seemed to have a huge stock for someone who never seemed to sell anything.

The March 721 that he says was sold went to Dave Charlton and Charlton says he got it directly from March, not from ESR. Similar story with the Eifelland 721 and the ex-Cannon 73A. This made me believe that the cars were on a sale-or-return deal with March and not actually "in stock". The

The cars that I know left ESR include a 721X and another 721 and neither showed any modifications. Maybe he was unable to move the modified cars and it was therefore modified ones that went to Gibbs four years later?

I'm still not clear how many cars Gibbs bought from ESR. I can see we now have the 'ESR/1' (possibly the 725 rebuilt) and the ex-Davidson 732/A but was there a third car (maybe the ex-Jarier 731)? Does Gibbs still have that third car?

Allen

[allenbrown]

Ray

I'm just updating my results to show Davidson in '732/A [15]' in Gold Star and ARCO Graphite in 1982 (probably with the 15 in quotes) and I notice that I haven't got a note of what engine the car used. Presumably it was a F5000 Chev V8. Do you know if that's right?

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

Allen,

Are you talking to Ray , or did you mean Bryan.

Is it possible in recording the car to put a note that indicates that 732/15 A is the tub number stamped under the rollover bar on the lhs not a chassis plate no . which on this car is not poss. as it does not have a chassis plate.
Reason for request is already in correspondence between Ron Cullen and Duncan R. Mr. Cullen was asking questions about March 732-15 , which is as we know the ex Beuttler F2 rebuild of 732-9 European F2 car which still exists .

Bryan.

[allenbrown]

Sorry Bryan. My brain isn't always properly connected to my typing finger.

Yes, I understand that it isn't 732 chassis 15 but at least it gives the car an identity by calling it 732/A ["15"] instead of just "the Davidson March".

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

Allen

Support Bryan here on the problems of distinguishing unplated but 'stamped' cars from those with plates of the same number. A situation that's likely to get worse
as we go on. How about calling it a Santos March 732 rather than a March?

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Or we could state chassis no unknown at this stage , tub no is xxx.

Bryan.

[allenbrown]

OK. I'll add a note to this car, the same way they appear in Indy cars and Atlantics, laying out the known history. I think it's 95% March and 5% Santos so I'm reluctant to call it a Santos March as I'd have to rename so many other modified cars to be consistent. And it was entered as a March.

[JohnHenderson]

Wow! I only stepped out for a cup of tea and suddenly there's a ton of interesting posts! (not a lot on mine though...!)
Bryan: Sorry, I'm not in Australia (I wish!) but in Bromley, Kent, UK (SE of London). Interesting history to the other ESR March Ray Gibbs bought. Any info about my one's Australian vacation? Ray's letter with the papers just refers to the car's life in "the GMH Museum at (illegible - looks like Echuca?)" and that it won ftd at Mangalore Sprint (Victoria?) in the hands of Don McKay (Pres. of Jag Car Club) in April 1993 (of which there results sheets and a photo of the car with a different roll bar/engine and no wing) and later outings at the same venue in 1996 at the hands of Ray himself (results sheets).
The ESRD Autosport ad which came with the papers, is the June 28 1973 one which lists 5x F1/F5000 March cars for sale, including "March 72A. Ex-Cannon-Rover chassis being rebuilt, using wide based suspension, ie 73A spec with Chevy or could be supplied with V8 BRM for libre" which sounds like my one.
But what happened to it between 1973 and Ray's purchase of it in early 1978 (the date in Ray's letter)? Did anyone drive it anywhere? Or was it an uncompleted project at ESR (or even at March?) up until Ray bought it in 1978?
Allen: (in case you didn't get my email) My email to Mike Cannon (to ask if he recalls what his father did with the 725) was returned "mailbox unknown" - could you check if he's changed it please? I've also contacted the SCCA to ask if they can put me in touch with John Gunn to try to check Ray Gibbs' claim that Gunn drove the car while waiting for his factory 73A to be built.
Meanwhile, the car is cleaning up nicely and I should have photos soon if anyone is interested.
Regards to all
John

[allenbrown]

Hi John

Sorry - I must have missed that email. The address I sent you (hmv_eng6) was the last one he emailed me from but that was March 2004. He moved to Herdez Competition just a couple of months before he last emailed me so maybe the compuserve address was a stopgap. You could try contacting Herdez Competition, 57-A Gasoline Alley, Indianapolis, In 46222 (317.241.3955).

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

Allen

Sometimes they are called Santos Marches in contemporary literature:
Programme for Silverstone Atlantic 31 March 74 calls Gillian Orchard's
Anglo Swiss Racing Team car a 'Santos March 722B'.
What was it really? Might have been the equipe's March 712M chassis "9"
[carries plate from 9 but probably 11 - ex Jaussaud, Colin Andrews car, believe me it's so complicated it makes all other histories seem simple]
Alternatively at Silverstone 7.4.74 when Richard Robinson has the good
fortune to drive the 712, Orchard appears in what is described as an HRS
732/5 [maybe that's a clue, but as that was meant to go to Ernesto Brambilla and Max Bonin after I think not] Said HRS is according to AS race report based,
and none too securely, on a March 713M and according to Jock Santos a
week later, also in AS, an ex Beuttler 722.

[JohnHenderson]

Thanks Allen, I'll call Herdez tonight. I'll also try Marcus Pye to see what he recalls and let you know.
Any luck tracking down Sandy Jock Tobin...?
John

[allenbrown]

That's interesting Chris. I meant that Davidson's car was referred to as a March in 1982 but I didn't know about Atlantics being entered as ESR Marches.

ESR did advertise a 713 at some point but I had forgotten that there were monocoque 713s. I guess they were broadly the same type of 'narrow tub' March as the 712, 722, 73B and so on. Maybe Beuttler's 722 had been a converted 713M

Allen

[JohnHenderson]

Chris, who is Jock Santos? Was he behind ESR? If so, any idea of his whereabouts currently?
John

[Bryan Miller]

John/Allen.

John , sooner rather than later can you post a pic of the full width front bulkhead.

Allen, now it all comes back to me , in trying to solve the Cannon March story for you , Ray Gibbs advised of another car in a museum , which will be the car John now has , which I did hear on the grapevine had been sold via a broker to o'seas.
So Gibbs has had at least 3 March F5000 cars , but only 2 to my knowledge ex Ecurie Santos , the other being the Cannon car as already advised in a P.M. or phone call , that car no longer existing.

John , Echuca is the correct spelling , Victorian country town on the Murray river near/on the border to New South Wales.

One very strange fact from the first re-appearance of tub 732-15A in the hands of Ron Cullen was at Eastern Creek after only a few laps the front suspension folded up.
To non March people the front bulkhead is alloy plate , with what I call a doubler plate at each end to stiffen the pick ups for the top and bottom wishbones, same as on my 74B Atlantic.
732-15A did not have these fitted and I have no idea whether in the rebuild Mr. Cullen did not refit mistakenly believing they were an add-on or if they had never been fitted , these are on my car glued and solid rivetted , not a quick bolt on.
If they had never been on the car , there is no way that chassis would have been raced by anyone in period , the car is the same spec as Johns car in 722 F2 style nose , side rads etc. also has two element rear wing and plate style wing mounts off the Hewland DG300.

Allen , this may frighten you , however I have remembered Ray Gibbs advising me that he also has [ I Think ] a Tyrell F1 lurking around somewhere. Are you missing any.?????

Bryan.

[Bryan Miller]

Would you believe Tyrrell.

[Chris Townsend]

Allen

I'm inclined to believe A/S about it being a 713, and I think we are talking tubs only
here. March seemed able to sell all the 722s they had left at the end of 1972.
Another "interesting" Santos Atlantic car is a March 703 advertised as to Atlantic spec - air restrictor removed?

John
Sorry meant Jock Tobin, not Jock Santos in early post!

[JohnHenderson]

Bryan,
Unfortunately I can't photograph the front of the car at the moment as the car is on stands and there's not enough room at the front to get the nose off. But it should be back on terra firma soon and I'll take the photos of the front bulkhead (straight on from the nose, looking back?) Anything else anypone would like to see? Where can I send you the shots Bryan? I've got Allen Brown's email addy but not yours (mine is: jchenderson@lycos.co.uk).

Everyone: as Sandy Jock Tobin is pretty central to all this, I'll post a new thread to see if anyone outside this thread knows his whereabouts. Does anyone have contact details for Robin Heard of March, so I could ask him if he remembers what happened to the Cannon 725?

John