[WTCC] Race 5 & 6 - Marrakech (MAR), 3rd May 2009

[FIRE]

Less boring as race 1 but still not great.

2009 is not BMW's year.

[Matt]

Chevrolet still has their streak going.

[helterskelter]

Anybody remember this and this?
I think Yvan and Alain were just doing their job by saying what they said.
As for Larini's move, I don't think it was intentional.

Originally Posted by stedevil

Do you ever actually see what happens? Andy was heading for the tire barriers all on his own.

Hitting the barriers has not damaged Andy's car, it's the accident with Sergio that destroyed the rear suspension. Of course he would have hit the barriers, but he would have got away with it. Hernandez apologized, but maybe you know better than he does
The 'bright idea' seems to have worked, since Andy never really had nearly the pace to be in the Top Ten, and yet he did thanks to Alex's tow. Hernandez was over a second slower than Andy, so it would harldy have worked between the two of them only.

[Jon411]

Thought the first race was a bit boring. The Sky+ very kindly stopped recording with 2 laps to go in race 2 - so I am waiting for the race to download so I am waiting for the race to download so I can watch it in full.

From what I did see the BMWs look to be struggling really badly this weekend - I guess the combination of the weight and the gearing didn't help them.

The Chevrolet should have a bit of ballast put on for the next race - it confused me a bit as to why they had the same weight removed as the LADAs, and they had the flat floor and plastic windows.

I think SEAT looked to be playing it relatively safe - I was expecting them to be a bit faster than they were - could they have been playing the numbers game, rather than going for the wins and the fastest laps to help them a bit better weight-wise for Pau?

Really impressed with Bennani (I've probably spelt his name wrong) and it was good to see Exagon back.

I was expecting Porteiro to be further up. Does anyone know if he was playing it safe this weekend - was he just out for points, rather than getting shoved into the wall by the works guys playing rough?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Jon411

The Sky+ very kindly stopped recording with 2 laps to go in race 2

Ditto

Originally Posted by Jon411

The Chevrolet should have a bit of ballast put on for the next race - it confused me a bit as to why they had the same weight removed as the LADAs, and they had the flat floor and plastic windows.

We did wonder about the ballast vs flat floor after the first 2 races. I think the logic is that in theory they already had the floor dispensation prior to the first race (although they didn't use it) so no additional adjustment to the compensation weights was required. As fastest car this weekend they will be on maximum ballast (+40kg) for the next meeting.

Originally Posted by Jon411

Really impressed with Bennani (I've probably spelt his name wrong) and it was good to see Exagon back.

Agreed, he looked like a bit of a star in the making. Hopefully on the basis of that showing he'll be able to get get the backing to do a few more meetings. From what I can find of his previous race history his single seater career so far has been pretty uneventful.

[Matt]

Race two was quite exciting, glad to see my Chevrolets winning!

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by Jon411

I was expecting Porteiro to be further up. Does anyone know if he was playing it safe this weekend - was he just out for points, rather than getting shoved into the wall by the works guys playing rough?

No, Fèlix was just struggling like most BMWs, except Engstler who must have found something in the setup so his car was slightly faster. It was a fun weekend, sometimes boring but hey, that's street track racing.

[helterskelter]

Results suspended for technical scrutineering as BMW Team Germany officially protested the turbo pressures of the works Leòns. Let's see what happens...

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Results suspended for technical scrutineering as BMW Team Germany officially protested the turbo pressures of the works Leòns. Let's see what happens...

Ouch, this looks more and more like the 1987 WTCC...

How could BMW possibly know the boost pressure of the Leons? I sense another spy-gate.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

The 'bright idea' seems to have worked, since Andy never really had nearly the pace to be in the Top Ten, and yet he did thanks to Alex's tow. Hernandez was over a second slower than Andy, so it would harldy have worked between the two of them only.

Ok, but if Hernandes is so much slower, and you in any case do a 3 car train, why not pair up Farfus, Priaulx and Müller?

PS Priaulx did a 1:51,051 during race 1 but his qualy time was only 1:51,508, so I'm still not confident he only made it into top 10 only due to Alex pulling him. Of course the track was faster during race 1, but Andys race pace was certainly top 10 times.

Originally Posted by redshoes

As fastest car this weekend they will be on maximum ballast (+40kg) for the next meeting.

I think you forget that race pace is measured as a last 3 events rolling average. My calculations would put Chevy at +10kg for next weekend. But that is apparently not exactly how KOS counts because that would have given -10kg for Chevy this weekend, not -20kg. If I apply a "This is a stupid way to do it" calculation (the only 1 that I've gotten to yield the Chevy -20kg) that would leave Chevy at -20kg and BMW at +30kg. In any case, +40kg is for sure not what Chevy will have next race.

[helterskelter]

Well, his race pace was around his quali time, if you look at the progression of his laptimes. He must have had a strong slipstream, because the rest of his laps were above 51.4. During race 2 he had to defend from Monteiro and had no slipstream, so TBH the fact that he was 0.9s slower than his best race 1 laptime doesn't really indicate much.
Sadly he was around top ten speed, not in it. Andy said:"When the times counted in qualifying on Saturday I was relieved to make it into the top ten. If I had been told after Friday testing this would be the case I would not have believed it.
For this I have to say a big thank you to Alex Zanardi and Sergio Hernandez from BMW Team Italy-Spain. They gave me the tow that catapulted me in the final minutes from 11th to eighth"
Why they didn't put together Farfus, Jorg and Andy like in Monza last year I don't know. I'll try to get that sorted.

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Ouch, this looks more and more like the 1987 WTCC...

How could BMW possibly know the boost pressure of the Leons? I sense another spy-gate.

It's a little more complicated than that. Rob Veltman explains it perfectly here. There's no way to control accurately the turbo pressure, so it looks like BMW filed a protest in order to clarify the situation. We'll see what happens.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by stedevil

I think you forget that race pace is measured as a last 3 events rolling average.

From WTCC Sporting regs, Section 79 B 5

c) When a model has less than 60 kg of compensation weight allocated under B) 4) and becomes the fastest model, taken as the reference in a given Event, a maximum of 60 kg of compensation weight will automatically be allocated for the following Event.

Chevrolet were the fastest model so get +40kg regardless of the rolling averages.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by redshoes

From WTCC Sporting regs, Section 79 B 5

Chevrolet were the fastest model so get +40kg regardless of the rolling averages.

Hmm, I read that in the context of "fastest model"= 3 race average, but it could of course also be interpreted like you say. I guess we will find out for sure once KOS publish their numbers.

Really sad though they don't have eg an appendix where they show the exact procedure of the calculations with an example or at least show their calculations instead of just the weights.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

He must have had a strong slipstream, because the rest of his laps were above 51.4.

Not really I would say. His fastest lap was on lap 9. On lap 8 he was 1,2s behind the guy in front. Lap 9 he was 0.9s behind. The guys that were latching onto the back of the car in front all were about 0,2-0.3s behind. 1,2s too far to have much effect, and he had about that distance for several laps so why did he get a slipstream on only 1 of the laps?

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

it looks like BMW filed a protest in order to clarify the situation.

A bit of topic, but personally I think it's sad FIA doesn't provide a better way to seek rule clarifications than protesting a result in a race. A perfectly valid question like that should be possible to get an official ruling on without "protests" and "provisional standings".

BTW for the people that found this a boring track, which includes myself, the guys on Eurosport said that next year there would likely be an infield added. Should add a lot more dynamic to the otherwise quite monotonous straight lines.

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by stedevil

Not really I would say. His fastest lap was on lap 9. On lap 8 he was 1,2s behind the guy in front. Lap 9 he was 0.9s behind. The guys that were latching onto the back of the car in front all were about 0,2-0.3s behind. 1,2s too far to have much effect, and he had about that distance for several laps so why did he get a slipstream on only 1 of the laps?

So why push for only 1 lap and be about half a second slower during the rest of the race?

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by stedevil

A bit of topic, but personally I think it's sad FIA doesn't provide a better way to seek rule clarifications than protesting a result in a race. A perfectly valid question like that should be possible to get an official ruling on without "protests" and "provisional standings".

True. This is affecting the credibility of the championship...

[Sodemo]

I missed both races with the exception of the first lap of race 1 due to us having a powercut across several parts of our town (traffic lights were all off too which must have been fun).

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

So why push for only 1 lap and be about half a second slower during the rest of the race?

Perhaps trying to catch up to the car in front but noticing brakes can't handle it? Try ask Andy if you have the chance. Stuff like that is always interesting to know.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I missed both races with the exception of the first lap of race 1 due to us having a powercut across several parts of our town (traffic lights were all off too which must have been fun).

Don't worry, you didnt miss much. The cars pretty much finished in the exact order they had after lap 1. Race 2 had some overtaking, but not much.

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by stedevil

Perhaps trying to catch up to the car in front but noticing brakes can't handle it? Try ask Andy if you have the chance. Stuff like that is always interesting to know.

Andy is not keen on talking about Morocco yet, too upset to do so. Anyway I doubt it: if the brakes couldn't handle it, he'd have ran wide in some corners and lost time.

[werner]

Well, you could feel that you have to push the brakepedal deeper and harder at every corner for the same amount of braking. If you have a moment to think of that (and you have at those long straights) you might consider to be easier on the brakes before they actually started to lose brakingforce.
Having said that, I haven't heard before that brakewear was an issue in S2000-cars in a 50km race. Offcourse, if it was ever an issue, it is at Marrakech, but still, there have been races at other brakekilling tracks like Enna-Pergusa, Porto and Imola.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by werner

Having said that, I haven't heard before that brakewear was an issue in S2000-cars in a 50km race. Offcourse, if it was ever an issue, it is at Marrakech, but still, there have been races at other brakekilling tracks like Enna-Pergusa, Porto and Imola.

Every session of Eurosports coverage they were talking about brakes and how everybody had huge problem with making them last. Teams were doing everything, from changing brakepads and disks to drilling holes and attaching extra tubes, just to add extra air flow to the brakes. All those full throttle highest gear breaking into 1st or 2nd gear corners just blew away the requirements by any other track sofar on the brake side.

[werner]

Ok, maybe I'll have to e-mail eurosport that they have to find a dutch reporter who knows these kind of things. Interesting info anyway.