Why People Dislike Mclaren

[SetikX]

Morning all,
I am relatively new to formula one, I began watching in 2001, but seriously began following it during last years methodical season. From three years of following, I must say I like Mclaren the best, shortly followed by the Jordan.

During the “Least Favourite Team” thread Mclaren got 12% of the votes. Now I am not shocked because people have different opinions to myself, but I was interested in the reasons why they hated the team.

Golem wrote (By the way, this isn’t a personal attack):
“I dislike McLaren... Love coulthard and Kimi, Hakkinen too but I never liked their team and never seemed to like Ron. Ever since I was small and watched.”

Another comment is: Mclaren is too dull. I cannot recall Mclaren ever being boring. DC is conservative, and drives a tactical race. When he is at his best, he is often not even suspected as a threat, and sneaks in with a win. K R is, going by this season’s performance, one of the Greats to come, he drives all out. In his flying qualifying laps he often puts all his eggs in one basket. Since when is that dull?

The comment made by Golem seemed to convey the general opinion shared by most of the members who voted Mclaren.

Seeing as though I have only been an interested spectator for just over a year and a half, I was just asking why some people have reservations when it comes to Ron, and why that dislike towards him is that strong that it sours their opinion on the whole team. Anyone care to shed some light on why they dislike Mclaren.

-RR

[Testure]

Originally posted by SetikX
Seeing as though I have only been an interested spectator for just over a year and a half, I was just asking why some people have reservations when it comes to Ron, and why that dislike towards him is that strong that it sours their opinion on the whole team. Anyone care to shed some light on why they dislike Mclaren.
-RR

I've always had the impression that McLaren were the team with the least interest in F1 as a sport. They seem to deliberately try to project this aura of perfection/precision/holier(richer!)-than-thou. Look at their gargantuan paddock facilities. The "technology centre" that looks like somthing from a 1960's James Bond film. Even down to the uniforms the pit crew wear. I guess a lot of people like that image, but it's a bit of a turn off for me...

As for Ron himself, he simply never looks very happy. I know it's just his personality and I'm sure he loves F1 as much as the next team boss, but would it really hurt to show it one in a while? It is still a sport. Sorta.

[ljakse]

I'm wandering the same for years.
Many tried to explain.
None succeded.

[steve_r]

Becuase it was alway Mansell V Mclaren, and the Macs nearly always won the championships in the end.

Thats it for me anyway, but they are no longer my least favourite team (In fact I support anyone who even looks like giving Ferrari a run for their money - Come on Kimi!!)

[BertMk2]

There are a number of reasons I dislike McLaren:

- Ron.

- The Mclaren corporate image, they seem to forget that F1 is (or should be) a sport and therefore should be fun.

- Ron.

- The colour scheme (not a very good reason for disliking them I know but what the hell). It has to be the dullest ever applied to an F1 car - Grey? I know they claim it's 'silver' but really it's just a well polished grey isn't it? Dull.

- Ron.

- The clincher for me actually has nothing to do with the F1 team but the McLaren group, they own my local circuit (Lydden Hill) and are planning on closing it so they can build a new production facility/test track. What kind of race team closes a race circuit? Stupid bunch of , so much for supporting grass roots level motorsport. Gits. (Can I say Gits? Soon find out I suppose)

- Ron.

That just about covers it I think....

[Speedworx]

I've always loved McLaren, they are the most fair team on the grid.

[Aysedasi]

Biggest mistake for McLaren was losing those gorgeously simple Marlboro colours........

[enemy-ace]

Personally I think the WEST livery is one of the top five best of all time. Simply Beautiful!
I love the efficiency with which Mclaren operate and present themselves. I also think Ron Dennis is a very intelligent man who I have great respect for. A very shrewd operator. They have also employed the Flying Finns, two drivers I can personally identify with.
Great team, my all time favorite.

[Aysedasi]

They've alwasy been a favourite of mine too ace, but then, they did have Senna's best years..... that's probably why I identify so much with the red and white as well, I guess.

[type49]

I absolutely hated them for years blaming them for being the force behind chasing Jim Hall from the Can Am. This turned around when Dennis came aboard and brought Lauda into team.

[BertMk2]

Originally posted by enemy-ace
Personally I think the WEST livery is one of the top five best of all time. Simply Beautiful!
I love the efficiency with which Mclaren operate and present themselves. I also think Ron Dennis is a very intelligent man who I have great respect for. A very shrewd operator. They have also employed the Flying Finns, two drivers I can personally identify with.
Great team, my all time favorite.

WEST livery simply beautiful :confused: you have to be joking. (Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one)

The efficiency they operate with is also part of the reason I dislike them, they're so clinical they're almost robotic in their actions - they have absolutely no soul.

Ron Dennis is clearly a very intelligent man (machine?) but the whole approach is just so detatched and emotionally removed from what should be a passionate sport.

I have absolutely no problem with the McLaren drivers over the years, particularly the clearly insane Finns. It's just the corporate machine that is McLaren I dislike.

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by BertMk2
....but the whole approach is just so detatched and emotionally removed from what should be a passionate sport.

With the emphasis on the should, perhaps?

I don't disagree but I find it very difficult indeed to be passionate about F1 these days. Perhaps Ron Dennis feels the same?

[JonesF1]

Ron cried when Kimi won at Malay, the big lug.

[BertMk2]

If Ron can't summon up any passion for the sport he shouldn't be in it surely? Or is it now purely a business from his point of view? Just a means of raking in vast piles of cash?

I suppose some of my arguments can equally be applied to other teams in the pitlane - Toyota for example. Another big corporate team with a similar attitude, but somehow I can't summon up any real dislike for Toyota, I don't like them but I don't dislike them, they're just sort of there really aren't they? Jaguar could also fit the bill but they're a comedy sideshow so they escape my wrath for now.

(Before anybody says anything - yes there are teams that I don't have a problem with!)

[Damon]

Ron cried when Kimi won at Malay, the big lug.

According to James "the plank" Allen, and something which Ron later vermently denied. However he did go against strict Mclaren policy of claiming all trophies won by drivers at the helm of a Mclaren by letting Kimi keep his first win trophey from Malaysia. Poor David, he doesn't stand a chance.

[enemy-ace]

Originally posted by BertMk2
WEST livery simply beautiful :confused: you have to be joking. (Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one)

The efficiency they operate with is also part of the reason I dislike them, they're so clinical they're almost robotic in their actions - they have absolutely no soul.

Ron Dennis is clearly a very intelligent man (machine?) but the whole approach is just so detatched and emotionally removed from what should be a passionate sport.

OK, you be YIN and I'll be YANG.
As for Ron not being passionate about the sport, I don't know. He is very competitve and is that not in essence a part of the sport. He has said that he feels actual physical pain when his team doesn't win.
I can only think that the pain can only be rooted in a PASSIONATE need to win. Mclaren have been a consistently successful team and that I think can be traced directly back to Ron. Like the old saying goes; "The fastest way to go broke is to go racing", or something like that.

[Adam43]

I think Ron is very passionate about the sport. More than most and certainly more than most team bosses. The fact that people can't see it, I'm sure he thinks, is their problem!

In fact I would go as far as saying that Ron is more passionate about F1 than most of us here. The fact that he knows more about it and is successful at it just gets in the way of those on the outside seeing that.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Damon
According to James "the plank" Allen, and something which Ron later vermently denied.

You could tell he was just worried that something may go wrong in the last lap (like Mika, Spain 2001).

James said "it's official" and I reckon that is clear indication that it isn't. The thing is despite it being obvious Ron didn't ITV continued with the certainty that he did. I suppose they thought it sounded good or are stupid or don't want to report what actually happens in F1 racing.

That's not to say that Ron wasn't delighted that Kimi had won his first Grand Prix. He was clearly ecstatic.

[Pitstop]

To take a leaf out of BertMk2 book (hope you don't mind mate), I don't dislike the Mac team but...

I don't like Ron

He 'spouts lyrical' about team orders and, IMO, practice them.

I don't like Ron

DC will never win the WDC whilst at Mclaren, because of the above.

I don't like Ron

The livery is OK - I quite like it, I just don't like..

Ron

The whole team is focused on one person...

Ron

Ron being 'in charge' of everything at McLaren - thus neglecting his most valuable asset - his team! he scares the pants of them.

Shame really

[garcon]

Originally posted by hakkiman
I've always loved McLaren, they are the most fair team on the grid.

Has anyone ever said you're a comic genius, hakki ??

[Adam43]

I reckon hakkiman has a point! well I never

[kmchow]

But perhaps Mclaren is contributing significantly to F1's appeal--they provide yet another way of doing business? They are conservative, clinical and fairly proven. The complement the other wild, unproven, unconventional, different teams in F1?

I don't mind the paint scheme on the Mclaren. It looks very classical and serious.

I just wish there were more teams racing in F1!

[Neil C]

I guess I'm puzzled by the criticism of McLaren (or Jaguar, or Toyota) as being too "corporate". They are, after all, corporations. It doesn't matter to me if they go to great pains to paint themselves as a bunch of merry fun loving privateers in order to entertain and retain fans.

Unless I missed it, nobody's mentioned the most corporate of all the teams, Ferrari. Talk about corporate "machines", yet they maintain an image of passion that extends to the requirement that Schumacher must smile when he wins, and Barrichello must smile when he loses.

All team's have a goal of winning. If some do it in a precise, calculated machine-like fashion, they can't be faulted for their success. Minardi fans might think Minardi is having more fun, but I bet Minardi would trade places with McLaren in a second.

[Damon]

I too don't exaclty dislike Mclaren to the same extent I do Ferrari. After all they actually go about racing the way I wish Ferrari would. I.e. they are a well oiled, slick corporate team but they also allow for out and out racing between their drivers. They basically provide the best car possible and let the drivers decide themselves how best to use it. That I respect. The only problem for me, and it would seem many others, is Ron. It's just he can look so bloody smug at times that...

[golem]

Mansell V McLaren has stuff all to do with it. I'm an Australian, but my pet driver when I was a kid was Aguri Suzuki.

Regardless, I think Senna's plain bad attitude while driving for the Macs helped. I didn't watch mutch back there but I did catch Nige being rammed and Prost being rammed even furth back. So, I guess it stuck with me Maclaren were 'dirty' racers, out to win at all costs and not play fair. Kinda why I disliked benetton with Schuey that only got made worse as things were revealed later in life, and it makes me hold a grudge on renault. Once a cheater... Now I know times change, and the crews are most likely very differant.

But Ron's still there at Maclaren, he pushes the perfectionist image, he seems to think Minardi has no place in F1 and that he could do it better. He might, but I seriously doubt it. He started up in a differant era and I'm not sure he'd know how hard it'd be to stay in F1 from Minardi's position, let alone rise.

See, in comparison Eddie Jordan and Enzo Ferrari... they're what seem to me to be racer's leaders. People with some character, who didn't mind character. Not perfect people but their teams when they lead seemed to have more racer spirit in them. Minardi's much the same, and I think Williams to an extent has more racing spirit than Maclaren. Frank at least lets the two guys be on equal footings and race it out with JPM and RS.

Might not be THE way to win races but he gets respect for it.

Ron and Frank then more recently Ferrari - Sauber attacking the new set of rules didn't help either. No, I don't like Ron Dennis. But I guess most people would do what he does in his position. But I still don't have to like it. All there is to it.