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Old 5 Apr 2017, 13:16 (Ref:3723931)   #51
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Don't forget Checo when he had his accident in Monaco 2011, he was cleared to race in Canada, but after FP1 he voluntarily pulled out, saying he didn't feel fit enough. So there's nothing new here
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 15:03 (Ref:3723944)   #52
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I thought Franchitti retired because of the risk of further damage to his back? In any event, I think we should cut Wehrlein a little slack. These kinds of injuries are not to be messed around with.
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 15:25 (Ref:3723949)   #53
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I thought Franchitti retired because of the risk of further damage to his back? In any event, I think we should cut Wehrlein a little slack. These kinds of injuries are not to be messed around with.
I believe he was told that any further concussion would probably cause permanent serious damage.
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 20:42 (Ref:3723998)   #54
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Going back to the OP, I thought DC came across a little harshly there. Sauber were perhaps very average for a long time, knocking on the door of the top four around the early 2000s as I recall, but usually not quite being there, kind of like a Toro Rosso-like performance of nowadays - respectable. When BMW invested, as a team they delivered a win and a few competitive seasons (how many of the same team as nowadays and before made up BMW-Sauber?).

They are the kind of team that show how hard F1 is, but have put in enough decent performances to give them a lot of credibility. They've never been ridiculously slow and out of synch with the rest of the grid. Last year was a nadir and the van der Garde driver debacle did not help my view of the way the team was managed, but this year it looks like they've stepped up a bit.

Regarding Giovanazzi and Wehrlein, I wouldn't like to speculate. It's easy to jump in with a conspiracy theory (we remember when Schumacher was going to come back with Ferrari, we were told doctors advised him not to, but it was also widely thought he saw he wasn't going to be up to speed and didn't fancy that), but nowadays it's not 1984 in terms of medical advice. The days of someone like Brundle jumping back in the car after a big one like he had at Monaco and being asked something like how many fingers Sid Watkins was holding up are gone. More precautions are taken and this year, drivers need to be stronger than last.
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 22:14 (Ref:3724010)   #55
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spider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridspider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I suspect very much that, as suggested above, there's truth to the second trauma warnings.

It's not a case of 'being soft' - more being logical that he's 22(!), has a lot of life ahead of him and not risking a second, potentially life-altering knock, would be a needless risk.

Re. Sauber, they've been calamitous in recent seasons, but they were pretty darn respectable in 2001-04, as a BMW works team and in Checo's hands in '12.

Plenty there, you'd imagine, to recover into a Force India challenger, surely.

Plus, with new F1 owners, you imagine the worst of times for independents is over. So by simply 'hanging in there' over the last few mediocre years, will allow them to have a stronger future - they should be applauded for that.
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 22:27 (Ref:3724014)   #56
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I suspect very much that, as suggested above, there's truth to the second trauma warnings.

It's not a case of 'being soft' - more being logical that he's 22(!), has a lot of life ahead of him and not risking a second, potentially life-altering knock, would be a needless risk.

Re. Sauber, they've been calamitous in recent seasons, but they were pretty darn respectable in 2001-04, as a BMW works team and in Checo's hands in '12.

Plenty there, you'd imagine, to recover into a Force India challenger, surely.

Plus, with new F1 owners, you imagine the worst of times for independents is over. So by simply 'hanging in there' over the last few mediocre years, will allow them to have a stronger future - they should be applauded for that.
Got all of that... so what doesn't the team grow a pair, and share just that?
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 22:42 (Ref:3724016)   #57
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Got all of that... so what doesn't the team grow a pair, and share just that?
I would guess that it comes down to what it always does - money. Some insurance, legal or financial legislation / loophole / penalty, somewhere. My guess...
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 22:56 (Ref:3724017)   #58
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Got all of that... so what doesn't the team grow a pair, and share just that?
fair question and a more forthcoming answer might have prevented some of the 'whats really going on' questions but still not sure how much we can infer from a lack of disclosure here imo.

sort of seems like a damned if you do damned if you dont situation though...say too little and it looks like PW is unprepared or afraid of the seat. say too much and it could hurt his chances at a seat down the line if he is perceived to have injury issues.

all he can really do is prove people wrong by doing something special the next chance he gets...that is if he gets another shot.
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 23:07 (Ref:3724018)   #59
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In Wehrlein's defence, a few years ago I suffered stress fractures in my lower back, 2 months in, I would have been able to pass a fitness test where I was controlling the movements, running, sit ups etcetera.
However, there would have been no way that I could have been able to withstand sudden jolts and bumps and lateral g's of a racing car though.
Probably took 18 months before that was possible, so Whirly may be in a lot of trouble from his back alone!
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Old 5 Apr 2017, 23:23 (Ref:3724019)   #60
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fair question and a more forthcoming answer might have prevented some of the 'whats really going on' questions but still not sure how much we can infer from a lack of disclosure here imo.

sort of seems like a damned if you do damned if you dont situation though...say too little and it looks like PW is unprepared or afraid of the seat. say too much and it could hurt his chances at a seat down the line if he is perceived to have injury issues.

all he can really do is prove people wrong by doing something special the next chance he gets...that is if he gets another shot.
Sauber has a history of not sharing what is really going on though.

The nightmare around Mr Van De Garde in Melbourne last year being case in point, plus all the noise around the place about bills unpaid/wages unpaid uncovered by journos from unhappy employees & suppliers...
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 12:01 (Ref:3724144)   #61
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Drivers Checo, Palmer, Grosjean and Ericsson have had made their own views on the situation on the Autosport website
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 13:52 (Ref:3724162)   #62
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Pérez is the only one whose view I value on this, really, as he's been in a similar situation. Though he says he would have come to a different decision from Wehrlein. But I have every sympathy for Pascal.
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Old 9 Apr 2017, 04:53 (Ref:3724903)   #63
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A Neck Fracture...

...hidden for so long because
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Old 9 Apr 2017, 14:08 (Ref:3725031)   #64
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A Neck Fracture...

...hidden for so long because
Right. Why the secret? Assuming this is the real reason (and it probably is), when can we expect his return? I am sure there is extra pressure given the poor performance by Giovinazzi at China? It's fine to show some speed, but to crash twice like that in one weekend for a struggling team at this point in the season (fly away races, few spares) and both accidents clearly being avoidable driver error? Is this the last we will see of Giovinazzi in F1?

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Old 9 Apr 2017, 15:39 (Ref:3725052)   #65
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Is this the last we will see of Giovinazzi in F1?
I think that is a bit much, he has been mightily impressive on the whole, more to the point the Ferrari cash should soften the blow of the crashes a little.
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Old 9 Apr 2017, 22:06 (Ref:3725117)   #66
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If that's grounds to dismiss Giovinazzi then Stroll should've been out of F1 already.
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Old 10 Apr 2017, 07:27 (Ref:3725218)   #67
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Why do armchair enthusiasts always slam a rookie for crashing?!!

Staggering.

Those conditions were tricky for the stalwarts let alone a guy with very little F1 experience.

Gio proved he was quick once again and he'll learn from this
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Old 10 Apr 2017, 10:34 (Ref:3725269)   #68
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Dunno why they didn't just admit to the fracture earlier, if that's what it was. It would have saved a lot of doubt about his fitness.

And I agree, give Giovinazzi time. A rookie crashed. OMG, not like that has happened before, has it?
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Old 10 Apr 2017, 17:32 (Ref:3725349)   #69
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Why do armchair enthusiasts always slam a rookie for crashing?!!
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And I agree, give Giovinazzi time. A rookie crashed. OMG, not like that has happened before, has it?
I am not sure if those comments above are directed at me for bringing it up in this thread or the fact that it is being talked about in general.

Everyone is quick to discard the fact that he crashed the car heavily twice in the same weekend. Accident during qualifying while pushing hard? Maybe Ok, he gets one "free" crash as a rookie, even if he probably didn't need to push as hard as he was. The second? No so much. While conditions were not dry, it was him crashing out while accelerating in a straight line on a known damp part of the track. But... apparently we are not allowed to comment on rookie mistakes without it being viewed as over to top and inappropriate? The are in F1! At what point do we stop coddling them?

Regardless, it's not about slamming a rookie for crashing, but rather commenting upon the implications. Look at the context.

He does not have a full ride, but rather is doing race by race substitution. My point is that if he did have a full ride he can more easily recover by learning from his mistakes and then putting forth good performances in future races. However if Wehrlein is back in the car soon (maybe as early as the next race) that will leave Giovinazzi with a short and not particularly impressive F1 record. Showing speed, but maybe pushing too hard given the team's situation.

F1 has a very illogical need to roll the dice on the "next great thing". I can easily see teams looking at Giovinazzi and saying "he had his chance" (and it likely being an unfair assessment) so they pick someone else. If there was one point of my post, it is that.

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If that's grounds to dismiss Giovinazzi then Stroll should've been out of F1 already.
I believe Giovinazzi is there on basis of ability while Stroll is there because his Dad wrote a large check (jury is still out as to if he is out of his depth). So you can't compare the two.

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Old 10 Apr 2017, 18:08 (Ref:3725353)   #70
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Why do armchair enthusiasts always slam a rookie for crashing?!!

Staggering.

Those conditions were tricky for the stalwarts let alone a guy with very little F1 experience.

Gio proved he was quick once again and he'll learn from this
I also think that this is going to be a lot more common with rookies with the faster cars. Up to now, the most difficult aspect of driving an F1 car in comparison with a GP2 car was learning how to operate the steering wheel and learn the complexity of the machine whilst still being fast.

There is now a huge jump in performance between a GP2 car and an F1 car. I think it's a sign that the new cars are a challenge to drive and that's exactly how it should be.

It's the curse of Maldonado. Every single crash from a rookie gets over-analysed by fans who are determined to discover the "new Maldonado" and to have their figure of fun and ridicule.
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Old 10 Apr 2017, 21:27 (Ref:3725396)   #71
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Is this the last we will see of Giovinazzi in F1?
a fair question imo.

to his credit he is supported by Ferrari so i would expect to see him get another chance next year either again at Sauber or Haas even.

although it may be to his advantage for PW to come back for next race leaving AG still eligible for the young driver test sessions later on this year...make a better case for himself in a more controlled environment type of thing.

from there though its up to him really ...which is the way its supposed to be in sports.

looking back at Grosjean's career...with the right support, a driver can find their way back to the grid. he overcame his early F1 persona and is back in the mix of names we might one day see in a Ferrari....not altogether dissimilar to the situation AG may be currently finding himself in.
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Old 11 Apr 2017, 01:28 (Ref:3725418)   #72
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And I agree, give Giovinazzi time. A rookie crashed. OMG, not like that has happened before, has it?
Does he have a website?

www.hasgiovinazzicrashedtoday.com ?

If not, the punters can't be hating on him too much
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Old 11 Apr 2017, 12:54 (Ref:3725514)   #73
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I'm assuming those doubting Giovinazzi's ability didn't watch last years GP2 season?
Having just turned 50 it takes a lot to impress me these days, but some of his drives last year were simply outstanding.
To me justice was done when Gasly found himself in the wilderness of Super Formula while Gio landed the Ferrari deal.
I hope his whole career doesn't end up being judged on two Grand Prix weekends.
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Old 12 Apr 2017, 01:26 (Ref:3725663)   #74
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Funny nobody here has suggested the much more experienced Bottas should be sacked, and he binned it behind the safety car!
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Old 12 Apr 2017, 02:59 (Ref:3725669)   #75
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Funny nobody here has suggested the much more experienced Bottas should be sacked, and he binned it behind the safety car!
And still finished the race in a points paying position...
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