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20 Nov 2014, 18:03 (Ref:3476987) | #1301 | ||
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20 Nov 2014, 18:39 (Ref:3476994) | #1302 | ||
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Then Ganassi Riley-Ford-Ecoboost, after staying in the pits for an hour would come from 17 laps back to the lead lap during the final competition caution before the "dash for the flag", ultimately crashing into the side of all-race-led R18 e-tron quattro and continuing to the victory lane as the Champions of World. Last edited by Deleted; 20 Nov 2014 at 18:50. |
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20 Nov 2014, 20:02 (Ref:3477016) | #1303 | ||
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I can see the appeal of GT only when the prototype field we are stuck with is so poor. However I would rather not see it become a GT only series. After all, isn't the fact that this is multi-class racing the appeal for most of us? It is for me.
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20 Nov 2014, 20:22 (Ref:3477019) | #1304 | ||
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Since the subject of AMA and NASCAR (mis)management came up, here's an article from 2009. Before you read it, think back to Daytona and Sebring this year. This management of this race embodies the "best" of Daytona and Sebring, from the actual race to the press conference by the race official. If you have the time, it's interesting to read the comments. To quote the immortal Yogi Berra, "it's deja vu all over again".
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/557/39...ts-Group-.aspx |
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It never got weird enough for me. |
20 Nov 2014, 20:23 (Ref:3477021) | #1305 | |||
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Awesome! |
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It never got weird enough for me. |
20 Nov 2014, 20:33 (Ref:3477023) | #1306 | |
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Yeah but nascar thinks it is to confusing.
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20 Nov 2014, 20:46 (Ref:3477029) | #1307 | |
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But it is confusing to the casual fan.
I would like it if there were more GT only races, bet their sponsors would love it too. Because we all know the protos always hog the TV limelight. |
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20 Nov 2014, 21:14 (Ref:3477036) | #1308 | ||
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There are six all class races this year. The 4 enduros plus the large tracks at COTA and Road america that is fine I guess. But for the rest. As many all GT's as possible please. |
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20 Nov 2014, 22:50 (Ref:3477072) | #1309 | |
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What casual fan? There is no such thing in this niche sport. I, for one, do not like split races. A major appeal of sportscar racing is the way the different classes interact, and that there's always action somewhere. And honestly, with what, maybe 14 GTE/D cars total so far, is there really a need for split class races?
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20 Nov 2014, 23:49 (Ref:3477092) | #1310 | ||
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I'm a fan of multi-class racing, too. However, I'd rather see TUSC go to all GT because of the on-going BoP mess in the Proto class. I would love to be convinced that the TUSC Proto class results were due to something other than favorable BoP for the week, but I haven't seen anything that does so. I don't want to see P2s or DPs dominate. What I would like to see is a Proto class that was designed to the same set of rules and limit BoP to once or twice a year, if even then. You can set BoP where a 125cc shifter kart beats a current F1 car, but it doesn't mean the kart is a superior vehicle. De-claw and de-fang a grizzly bear, then give it a heavy dose of sedatives, and a poodle could beat it in a fight.
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It never got weird enough for me. |
20 Nov 2014, 23:59 (Ref:3477096) | #1311 | |||
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It's only confusing if your prototypes look like malformed GTs. Look at P1s or P2s passing GTs, and then they're off into the distance. It's obvious multiple classes are at work here. How used to unfairness do you have to be to even consider a P1 (or P2) and a GT race in the same class?? GT-only races. Yeah how about you explain to the casual fan the difference between GTLM and GTD and how you know (number-plate-color aside) which is which when they flash across the screen. Next attempt? |
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Q: How to play religious roulette? A: Stand around in a circle and blaspheme and see who gets struck by lightning first |
21 Nov 2014, 03:17 (Ref:3477150) | #1312 | ||
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Rcz, the ACO lets GT3s run in the ELMS and AsLMS. There isn't enough grid space to be able to potentially have a reasonable number of LMP1s, LMP2s, GTEs, AND GT3s all out there at once in the WEC. Even at Le Mans, there would barely be space for double-digit GTE and GT3 grids.
If anything, the similarities between cars are more pronounced between the GT2 and GT3 cars, because of the models that run in both, and the fact that those models make up a majority of both classes: the Ferrari 458 and Porsche 911. However, if you spend much of any time looking, it's plain to see how much more aggressive-looking the GTLM cars are compared to the GTDs. If the "casual fan" is that easily confused, I'm not convinced that they're even capable of handling two classes at a time, and that's the fewest they'll get, because no one class has enough numbers to have a decent grid on its own. Besides, you're not going to attract many "casual fans" if the core audience, not to mention a number of the participants, is thoroughly displeased, and therefore, creating a less-than-inviting atmosphere around the series. You can't reasonably expect that the ALMS and GA managements could have seen the instant rise of BES in 2011 coming, back in the 2008/09 off-season. Without the Blancpain series doing what it did, practically overnight, I don't see the whole GT3 explosion happening as it did. Go in too soon, and you're shouted down for jumping the gun, but too late, and you're slammed for missing the boat. Basically, the series' principals needed to be clairvoyant enough to see to it that the merger took place in time for either the 2011 or 2012 season. You also have to keep in mind just how many major GT3 models, from several manufacturers, started coming in 2010, and especially 2011. These have continued to come since then. That development couldn't have been foreseen multiple years in advance. 2010: BMW Z4 GT3 Reiter-Lamborghini Gallardo LP-560 GT3 Porsche 911 GT3 R 2011: Reiter-Lamborghini Gallardo LP-600+ McLaren MP4-12C GT3 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3 Ferrari 458 GT3 2012: Audi R8 LMS Ultra Aston Martin V12 Vantage GT3 2013: Nissan GT-R NISMO GT3 Reiter-Lamborghini Gallardo GT3 FL2 Porsche 911 GT3 R 2014: Dodge Viper GT3-R Bentley Continental GT3 2015: Cadillac ATS-V.R McLaren 650S GT3 |
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The only certainty is that nothing is certain. |
21 Nov 2014, 03:17 (Ref:3477151) | #1313 | |
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It is a shame that the powers to be couldn't agree to the GTE/GT3 convergence.
Telling some one the difference between a GT3 Viper and a GTE Viper can be a bit of a pain. Some people would rather just watch GTE if they could, it where the factory are, America has, like I said before, perfer production racing cars. GTE was the most popular class in ALMS. As for protos, how can you tell someone the difference between a P2 car and a P3 car? Especially if TUSC adopts the P3 class in the future. |
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21 Nov 2014, 04:32 (Ref:3477163) | #1314 | ||
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The LMP2/3 bit is a red herring, as there is no possibility of it coming to pass for at least two years, if at all. It needlessly distracts from the problems at hand. Leave it in the dust bin.
I don't think the GT/Prototype preference balance is all that different between the US and Europe. Plenty of Europeans like(d) SuperTouring and the '90s GT1s. Conversely, I can't think of a specific GT class that, on the whole, captured the imagination of American fans quite like Can-Am, or GTP, the top 1999-2001 LMP900s, or the 2006-08 LMP1/2 battles. Truly exciting cars, competently presented, will be successful. So-so machinery, presented less than expertly, has no chance of gaining great notoriety, or earning the passionate following of fans. The idea of GT convergence had flaws, and one of the greatest was the fact that, you really want the factories to have their own space. It would not be good to force them upon the privateers, however capable they may be. Making them run together in one class, as the only option, would do just that. And, yes, the factory teams have that greater following, again, regardless of how good the crop of privateers is. Also, I just find the GTEs more visually appealing. The Ferrari 458 GT3 looks particularly flat and slab-sided compared to its GT2 counterpart. It's kind of like how the Doran Ford GT2s looked like they had been left in the press too long, in relation to their Matech Ford GT1 cousins. |
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The only certainty is that nothing is certain. |
21 Nov 2014, 04:54 (Ref:3477167) | #1315 | ||
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Anyways, reading this thread about next year's TUSC season gives me a headache with all the gloom and doom in regards to management, as well as putting (and failing) TUSC towards casual fans. |
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21 Nov 2014, 06:05 (Ref:3477174) | #1316 | |||
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I remember that,dear god I had no idea it was owned by NASCAR.explains everything now.jeezsus! |
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RACE CAR: noun: an automobile built or modified for racing. |
21 Nov 2014, 14:42 (Ref:3477294) | #1317 | |||
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Dumbing down the technology. BoP between extremely different machines, i.e. trying to shoe-horn 1200cc American V-Twin bikes into a formerly 600cc class. Alienating long time factory teams like Honda. Adding NASCAR procedures like a pace car (!) at a bike race. Screwing up race control, then trying to figure out which riders to punish. Promoting personalities over teams. It's the same thought process going on in TUSC. If it works for NASCAR, it has to work everywhere else. Like I said earlier, if Daytona's management of bike racing is anything to go by, we have about 7 years of "one chance to get it right" to deal with. |
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It never got weird enough for me. |
21 Nov 2014, 15:42 (Ref:3477301) | #1318 | ||
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21 Nov 2014, 17:56 (Ref:3477340) | #1319 | |
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"Welcome back to Daytona International Speedway for the Rolex 24 at Daytona presented by Continental Tire and powered by Sunoco, the proud partner of NASCAR. Now here is the Chevrolet Corvette of Spirit of Daytona on the speedway banking passing the Toyota for 2nd place just a seconds ago while you were on break. What a sight"
"Yes Bob. The team, just as all other DP squads have done superb development advancements over the winter. I spoke to Wayne Taylor yesterday morning and you can't believe how many hours they've been putting in the garage to get their Corvette ahead of these hybrid P1 cars. Same with the Ford Ecoboosts. It's quite an undertaking. And generally speaking, IMSA has also done really good job at balancing these extremely different methods to go racing." "For those who don't know, IMSA is the organizing body of the Tudor United SportsCar Championship. Without them, we wouldn't have such close racing as this." "Indeed Bob, you have the Toyota, Audi, Porsche and Nissan going head to head with Corvette and Ford, with couple of Honda & Ligier P2 cars in the mix as well. The RPMs are dead even! You've also got to hand it to Continental Tire, they've designed a great tire that fits every single category on track perfectly. It really is a fair playground for everyone now, just as we lo---- OOOOH BIG CRASH!" "Oh my. It appears to be the number #99 PC car that's spun to collide with the #06 PC. There comes to caution for 22nd time in this race." "Oh boy this is gonna pack the field even tighter. Can you believe that after 17 hours all but two Prototypes are still in the lead lap, while the Ganassi cars are quickly gaining laps back behind them." "The prospects of grandstand finish sure are here. We'll be back after these messages" Last edited by Deleted; 21 Nov 2014 at 18:25. |
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21 Nov 2014, 20:54 (Ref:3477378) | #1320 | ||
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21 Nov 2014, 21:01 (Ref:3477380) | #1321 | |
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21 Nov 2014, 22:31 (Ref:3477408) | #1322 | |
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I don't remember there be any phantom cautions, this season.
The problem is the caution when they do happen, are too damn long! The ALMS seem to had overly long caution, so apparently they adopted it from that side. For me, that is the worst aspect of TUSC. So they need to fix this now. Adopted code 60 or whatever, I don't know the real solution, but they need to fix it now! |
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21 Nov 2014, 22:50 (Ref:3477411) | #1323 | ||
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21 Nov 2014, 23:08 (Ref:3477416) | #1324 | ||
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The ALMS cautions did get longer in those last few seasons, but not this long. They were trying to keep the overall leader from screwing up battles in the lower classes.
Now, a thought occurs to me that could help substantially. First off, no one class should have its own dedicated lap on which to pit. Have the P/PC cars pit together, and the GTLM/GTD cars pit together. This, then only requires two laps. Also, I think you can eliminate the need for wave-by's by modifying this procedure. Have ALL the cars in the appropriate classes pass down pit road on their designated pit lap. Those that don't choose to pit continue on down and stop somewhere past the pit boxes, until the pace car queue has passed, and then they rejoin. In fact, if the pace car queue is going enough faster than the pit lane speed limit, those who are just passing through may not need to stop in pit-out at all before rejoining. The cars that did not make a stop end up ahead of those in their class that did. Wave-by's go bye-bye. And there is no need whatsoever for any cars to do any great amount of catching up to a queue, except for when the yellow is first thrown and the pace car is deployed. Unless there is an issue that interferes with the pit-in or pit-out, or clean-up takes longer, this procedure should only take three yellow laps total. Finally, if the track crews can clean up an incident more quickly in the closing stages, to get the race back to green for the finish, they damn well ought to be able to do it at that greater efficiency at any point during the race. I don't advocate hurrying up for the sake of hurrying up, because we want to avoid mistakes. However, there should be no substantial discrepancy between how long it takes to clear similar sorts of incidents, regardless of when during the race said incidents occur. Last edited by Purist; 21 Nov 2014 at 23:18. |
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22 Nov 2014, 00:45 (Ref:3477443) | #1325 | |
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