US F1, Campos Grand Prix and Manor F1 - The silence is deafening - Page 12

**Bononi** · 12 Oct 2009, 19:17 (Ref:2560066)

There's no racism or anti-american feeling going on here. I think all those who think this way, have to stop and think before saying that. The USF1 team boss is putting things in a way that is like "us and them", if there's an "anti whatever" is coming from him in the first place.
About americans always getting annoyed by this "anti-american" feeling is not related to this forum, and if anyone tries to raise that here it will be deleted, warned and the poster warned.

**Bononi** · 12 Oct 2009, 19:18 (Ref:2560068)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartracer41

Yep, get used to it. There are a bunch of preconceived notions about us, and you can't try to convince them otherwise.

Please, read my post above this one.

Neil22 · 12 Oct 2009, 19:20 (Ref:2560069)

USF1 is not only on the wrong continent, they're on the wrong coast. Anything they can do back East, we can do better!

Richard C · 12 Oct 2009, 19:30 (Ref:2560076)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

But it's because Europe is the best place to base. It's not arrogance. It's the truth.

I think the point you are missing is that they have not decided to base out of the US because they think its better or will give them a leg up somehow, but rather they want to base it out of the US to showcase US capabilities. Granted it's not going to be a 100% US team and as you say will have a European base. But you are measuring their decisions based upon goals that you or the other teams don't share.

As with any of the startup teams they have a long list of reasons that makes it difficult for them to succeed. And maybe if they had gone the traditional route and based the team 100% in the UK it would increase their chance of success. USF1 may fail horribly. But it’s not a forgone conclusion that they will fail due to it being based in the US.

P38 in workshop · 12 Oct 2009, 19:40 (Ref:2560084)

If they can successfully demonstrate that American capabilities are superior,there will be a stampede by the other teams to set up shop there.If not........

kartracer41 · 12 Oct 2009, 19:45 (Ref:2560094)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I think the point you are missing is that they have not decided to base out of the US because they think its better or will give them a leg up somehow, but rather they want to base it out of the US to showcase US capabilities. Granted it's not going to be a 100% US team and as you say will have a European base. But you are measuring their decisions based upon goals that you or the other teams don't share.

As with any of the startup teams they have a long list of reasons that makes it difficult for them to succeed. And maybe if they had gone the traditional route and based the team 100% in the UK it would increase their chance of success. USF1 may fail horribly. But it’s not a forgone conclusion that they will fail due to it being based in the US.

Another item people seem to miss is the marketing opportunities. They aren't bragging up the US fact because it's better, they are doing so to say "we are different" and to appeal to US businesses. This, for the same reason that you or I, if we were a corporate exec, wouldn't consider to fund the Toyota team nearly as much as we would consider another team. They don't stand out, in any way (well besides spending tons of money with nothing to show for it).

Richard C · 12 Oct 2009, 20:01 (Ref:2560103)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

There's no racism or anti-american feeling going on here. I think all those who think this way, have to stop and think before saying that. The USF1 team boss is putting things in a way that is like "us and them", if there's an "anti whatever" is coming from him in the first place.
About americans always getting annoyed by this "anti-american" feeling is not related to this forum, and if anyone tries to raise that here it will be deleted, warned and the poster warned.

I am not here to challenge warnings from forum admins or moderators. But is it fair to say that negative comments toward Americans are not to be tolerated, but at the same time you pretty much say if you do happen to be on the receiving end, it’s because you started it? With this apparently being some type of “us and them” that was started by USF1?

rayburn · 12 Oct 2009, 20:17 (Ref:2560117)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartracer41

Another item people seem to miss is the marketing opportunities. They aren't bragging up the US fact because it's better, they are doing so to say "we are different" and to appeal to US businesses. This, for the same reason that you or I, if we were a corporate exec, wouldn't consider to fund the Toyota team nearly as much as we would consider another team. They don't stand out, in any way (well besides spending tons of money with nothing to show for it).

I agree, and if the US base is purely for construction, with the Spanish base being where the team operates from practically, I don't see anything wrong with that. After all, if they are trying to bring US companies on board for sponsorship, I would think it would be a very good marketing tool to be able to show potential sponsors around a racing car factory.

**Bononi** · 12 Oct 2009, 21:38 (Ref:2560167)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I am not here to challenge warnings from forum admins or moderators. But is it fair to say that negative comments toward Americans are not to be tolerated, but at the same time you pretty much say if you do happen to be on the receiving end, it’s because you started it? With this apparently being some type of “us and them” that was started by USF1?

Uhn... you better not.

Read this :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Windsor (USF1 Team)

"We're based in America. We have a very different scale of operation. We're doing things our way, using American technology. So we're doing things our way with the American mentality and don't need the same head count as with Bernie's system. Having a driver used to plugging into a large car company system isn't necessarily going to be an advantage. "

Us and them...

Adversus solem ne loquitor

Anything else about this off-topic issue, please PM me.

DanShenise · 12 Oct 2009, 22:06 (Ref:2560190)

I think PW's comments were more directed at other profit centers within F1 and not some trans-oceanic "look mine's bigger contest." Without a doubt many a team has been throwing money down the toilet, and all he was saying, to me that is, is that look you don't need a staff approaching 1000 to run an F1 team. You don't need a new motorhome every two to three years, you don't need all the crazy development costs that are currently associated with the sport. Look at the money that has been spent in the past decade on things that are slowly being phased out because they are unsustainable. Windtunnels time, CFD cuts, in season testing (the one thing that shouldn't be regulated out of the sport), all are being slowly chipped away by the FIA and FOTA. So I'll grant the logistical advantages, but beyond that there is no reason why you can't expect them to be a decent bottom third team next year.

strider · 12 Oct 2009, 23:38 (Ref:2560238)

I haven't looked at this thread for a while and now that I have I wish I hadn't.

What a complete load of rubbish to talk about racism between Europe and the USA. Some people need to remove their blinkers.

Anyway, that's enough of USF1. What about the other teams.

Manor seem to be coming along nicely. I've read that Adam Carroll and Anthony Davidson are amongst the drivers they're looking at, which is good news. Maybe they should think about Takuma Sato, too.

Ditto Campos, with Pedro de la Rosa favourite for the first seat, or maybe Marc Gené. Bruno Senna thinks he has a good chance there and we may even hear something this weekend. Brazil is the perfect place for an announcement. He also mentions Manor as a possibility.

Lotus F1, Team Lotus or whatever seems to be ticking along well. The latest word is that Jarno Trulli is attracted by the thought of driving a Mike Gascoyne designed car again and the Malaysian, Fairuz Fauzy, looks to be a natural fit for the #2 seat. Incidentally, although I thought otherwise at one time, it seems that the British Litespeed F3 team is still connected with Lotus, as they should be because they were the ones to sign up Gascoyne.

Richard C · 12 Oct 2009, 23:55 (Ref:2560252)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Uhn... you better not.

Understood loud and clear.

Marbot · 13 Oct 2009, 00:57 (Ref:2560265)

Bernie still thinks that two of the new teams have probably bitten off more than they can chew.

"I think, at the beginning, they were all serious projects, but one or two may have found out that they have taken on too much. Previously, we have demanded of new teams, such as Toyota, a guarantee of $48m to protect us from abuse. This was abandoned, with the danger that a new team is sharp only on the launch pad, in order to be sold on later. I hope that we will not be punished because of our generosity."

Also.

"Lotus has met all the points in time," he pointed out, "They have secured the funding, opted for Cosworth engines, and prepared a plan of how they will build the cars. I tell you, they will begin 2010 with two cars. At BMW-Sauber, although it was always expected that the team would be bought, we did not know, until the deadline, who the buyer would be."

Do the math.

**Bononi** · 13 Oct 2009, 01:02 (Ref:2560267)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Understood loud and clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

But is it fair to say... With this apparently being some type of “us and them” that was started by USF1?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Uhn... you better not.

Like I said:

Adversus solem ne loquitor

Please, don't get me wrong.

**Bononi** · 13 Oct 2009, 01:11 (Ref:2560271)

Let's keep the discussion going on here :

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...70#post2560270

closed

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