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21 Dec 2007, 10:00 (Ref:2093231) | #26 | |
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wont miss waneroo one bit, what a crap sandblown out in the boon docks track
is this really the best the WA motosport boffins can come up with. shame WA motosrport fans shame |
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21 Dec 2007, 11:26 (Ref:2093275) | #27 | |
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Yes, a street race does great things for permanent circuits...
Oh hang on a tick. Mallala doesn't benefit from the Clipsal 500. Ipswich doesn't benefit from Indy. and Calder/Winton/PI have never benefitted from Albert Park. The main beneficiaries from Street Events are SEL (commercial rights holders of V8 Supercars), Travel and Hotels, Food and Beverage. I'm sure grass roots motorsport benefits somehow...as many of you continue to push, but not to the extent you may think. Most sponsors of support category entrants would be there if all V8SC events were at permanent circuits. And since when were Perth attendances dwindling significantly? The only way street events will benefit grass roots motorsport is when CAMS take the step of promoting them, profiting from them, and then distributing these profits to permanent circuits...which is not a current charter of the organisation. |
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21 Dec 2007, 12:28 (Ref:2093297) | #28 | |||
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Exactly right. Look at Hamilton. Half a dozen platform sponsors spending around half a million each on a package, plus naming rights yet to be announced. At least three of the platform sponsors have moved mountains to be there because they see the value. Pukekohe struggled to get a six-figure naming rights sponsor....Hamilton is seemingly fending them off. Tell me which you would prefer...and park your personal agendas/vendettas when you do please!! |
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Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car. |
21 Dec 2007, 23:20 (Ref:2093582) | #29 | ||
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
21 Dec 2007, 23:43 (Ref:2093592) | #30 | |||
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The forrest analogy is quite ironic with the WA government's sabotage of Rally Australia. For a return of investment on a Perth Street Race, the WA government is comparing against Clipsal, but also Rally Oz, the Air Race, the Canberra Street Race, Race of a Thousand Years, and the Indy. Some work, some do not, some become money pits that achieve nothing. Compare the infrastructure costs of a Perth Street Race to the Red Bull Air Race and I think you'd find that the realtive costs of V8 Supercars in that sort of comparison would become laughable. |
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Mark Alan Jones Opinionated Human My opinions only have the power you give them |
21 Dec 2007, 23:46 (Ref:2093595) | #31 | |||
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Mark Alan Jones Opinionated Human My opinions only have the power you give them |
22 Dec 2007, 01:06 (Ref:2093612) | #32 | ||
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Secondly, I doubt whether the Air Race can be compared to Clipsal (for example) on the same scale. So the cost comparison also does not count. The more you put in, the more you take out as they say in the classics. Thirdly, I suspect that the reality of this situation is that the WA Government don't really give a rats arse about events, sport or tourism because the money keeps rolling in from the mines. It certainly seems to be the case anyway. I think the Americas Cup experience cut them up (because Australia was out early and everybody went home) but, again, this would be a poor event to use as a precedent because of the elimination nature of that event (i.e Australia out = event over for most spectators). |
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
22 Dec 2007, 01:30 (Ref:2093615) | #33 | |
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If the V8's believe in street races so much, why is it they have to say that the various governments should pay for them?
If they believe the event is such a good thing, then maybe it is about time that the ORGANISER (ie the V8's themselves) started to put up the money to set up and run these events. Or is it that they realise they aren't the cash cows they try telling everyone they are? |
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22 Dec 2007, 03:49 (Ref:2093639) | #34 | ||
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It works like this in terms of return: Lets say a major event "The (Insert naming rights) Perth 500" attracts an influx of 100,000 people for 3-4 days. You can safely assume (with corporates etc) that the average spend of these people will be at least $2000 so there is $20 Million being generated in this time period (I suspect a lot more but this will do for the purpose of the exercise). So the government stand to (eventually) collect X % (say 35) in taxes/GST or approximately $7 million. Therefore if the event costs less than $7 million to stage, it is worthwhile (break even). In fact it is even less because of that 7 mill, another 30% will come back from taxes from the jobs generated. Problem is with the WA government (and a lot of motor sport fans) is short-term, small town, small picture thinking. Other states like NSW have wised up to the major event strategy employed by Victoria ... WA has not. I like the old days too but tradition won't pay any bills in a market where other sports are only too willing to jump in and take sponsors and spectators. Check out the new "Revolution" track cycling promotions - brilliant. V8SC have actually had a bit of foresight and planned their brand strategy. Now I (like I suspect most on this forum) like to spend the majority of my entertainment cash on motor sport. Luckily enough, I can attend a fair swag of Victorian meets for relatively low cost and this allows me to have a couple of trips to other states. But if I'm going to part with a large chunk of hard-earned, I want a bit of value and experience NOT a Mickey Mouse slot car track in the middle of the desert. If you think Wanneroo or Oran Park or QR will EVER compare to Clipsal or Bathurst, you are on another planet. Keep in mind that for anyone outside of WA, it costs us more to get there than anywhere else (I can even go to NZ cheaper). Wanneroo? Don't make me laugh. However, I WILL go to Townsville and I reckon it will be awesome. I'll also try to plan for the NZ round too, ditto. They are welcome to my money because they are trying harder to please me. Wake up WA. |
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
22 Dec 2007, 04:26 (Ref:2093642) | #35 | ||
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deeks and it cost us West australia a bucket load just to do a national series that does not even come here.
As far as im am concerned it pains me the mentality of a high percentage of east coast racers. We have to go there but u wont even think about coming here for one meeting. 3 national champions this year is amazing for the budget needed to be found. |
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remember the past embrace the future |
22 Dec 2007, 04:51 (Ref:2093646) | #36 | |
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Mate, I'm not anti-WA, quite the opposite ... I love the place ... used to be there every month on business.
But here's the deal - I can go to Wanneroo or I can go to Bathurst or Clipsal with money left over. Not really an argument, is it? Give me a street race and I'll be there - and I'll buy you a drink. |
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
22 Dec 2007, 05:52 (Ref:2093658) | #37 | ||||
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
22 Dec 2007, 06:33 (Ref:2093663) | #38 | |
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I am definately seeing the big picture.
And if I attend a race meeting - any race meeting - I want to be able to see more than just the 100 or so metres of track that I have to mortgage the house for in order to purchase a seat - because at events such as Clipsal, Indy, Albert Park and, to be honest, even Bathurst - that is all you get for your dollar. Street circuits are NOT spectator events - they are TV events - and that is the difference and reality between them and permanent circuits. |
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22 Dec 2007, 06:37 (Ref:2093664) | #39 | ||
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Why does Victoria claim it is now LOSING $30+ million annually staging the F1 race? Must be doing something majorly wrong if they should only be spending $7 million on a street race (regardless of whether it is for F1, V8's or F/Vees... |
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22 Dec 2007, 07:04 (Ref:2093669) | #40 | |||
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Interesting viewpoint Falc, but can I suggest 1. the event ran its natural course, what nearly 20 years, and lost its value to WA - it had saturated its market from an advertising & promotion point of view. It was never covered extensively on the East Coast of Australia. 2. I reject your suggestion that in terms of return on investment it is being compared with events that promote eastern Australia. Your point of view appears also to held by VESA, who sought to compare it with the WRC. 3. The air race is clearly aimed at international exposure not the east coast of Australia. (I am not sure how you compare the cost of the air race versus the V8s. 4. Your suggestion the WA government 'sabotaged' the WRC - how do you work that out - was it not the attempt of Ron Walker & his bandidos from Victoria to steal the event who forced a reappraisal of what the event did for WA? It had run its course. The agenda in WA should not be assumed to be that of other states. Note: the State Government has judged committed taxpayers money to a multi use football ground. Last edited by cavvy; 22 Dec 2007 at 07:06. |
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more torque than a climate change conference |
22 Dec 2007, 11:42 (Ref:2093729) | #41 | ||
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cavvy you forgot to say "Over Priced" Footy ground!!!!
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remember the past embrace the future |
22 Dec 2007, 12:27 (Ref:2093744) | #42 | |||
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I don't think it is a small town mentality just the WA government does not see the value/return of a street race. WA is not really struggling to get money into the local economy at the moment. |
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ยินดีที่ได้รู้จัก |
22 Dec 2007, 23:06 (Ref:2093935) | #43 | |||
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Secondly: I'm sure the WA government compares them, and that was my point. Thirdly: What happened in the 1980's is a generation removed from the current crop of politicians so I doubt the America's Cup is that relevant. |
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Mark Alan Jones Opinionated Human My opinions only have the power you give them |
22 Dec 2007, 23:14 (Ref:2093936) | #44 | |||
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2. Infrastructure costs are infrastructure costs. The dollars to build an event do not respect who comes to watch. 3. Yes it is, but that does not mean it does not have any domestic pull. Points in favour of the Air Race, it can pull International and East Coast. I compare the costs because at government level I am sure they do not care which sport they choose to promote. 4. Rally Oz was moved away from Langley Park to a smaller, less accessable venue, tried to get out of the contract a year early, then according to rumour was informing other states it was a bad idea to take it up. |
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Mark Alan Jones Opinionated Human My opinions only have the power you give them |
23 Dec 2007, 02:21 (Ref:2093980) | #45 | |||
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ยินดีที่ได้รู้จัก |
23 Dec 2007, 04:51 (Ref:2093997) | #46 | ||
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I'm also not sure what yours is but if you think the WA government are going to invest in permanent tracks or motor racing at all (not just V8SC), you are dreaming. I'm wondering why you would not want to grow the overall sector (motor racing) by showcasing its premier brand (V8SC) in a major event. Perhaps the problem is that there is divided opinion in WA (amongst fans, organisers, promotors?) so no proper lobbying ever reaches the Govt. Last edited by deeks6; 23 Dec 2007 at 04:58. |
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
23 Dec 2007, 04:55 (Ref:2094000) | #47 | ||
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"You can get lucky and win one championship but not two ..." Jamie Whincup. I wonder which person with the initials RK he was referring to. |
23 Dec 2007, 05:37 (Ref:2094005) | #48 | |||
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
23 Dec 2007, 06:21 (Ref:2094006) | #49 | |||
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cant accept that
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As an expat Sandgroper who goes back regularly, can I tell you WA runs 'to the beat of a different drum', & examples are the Americas Cup, the World Rally Championship & the Red Bull Air Race, none of which have been replicated in any other state. The WA government has supported the WASCC for a long time. Would the WASCC benefit if a street event were held ? Would that influence thinking? What is in it for WA? What is in it for WA motor sport - Messrs Johnson, Ricciardello & Tander will all run the #1 plate on their cars next year. They ran the WRC for close to 20 years and it was all but ignored in Melbourne (where I live), yet it made no difference, because the WA government has a different agenda to the one you insist on. Well done to the WA Govt for having an independent thought process. Last edited by cavvy; 23 Dec 2007 at 06:24. |
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more torque than a climate change conference |
23 Dec 2007, 06:32 (Ref:2094008) | #50 | ||
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The WA govt DOES invest in motor sport in WA - rin g the WASCC and ask about grants provided to the track over recent years. Or - if you are bothered - try getting hold of their club magazine which has detailed this on numerous occasions. Why wouldn't someone want to showcase the 'premier' brand of motor racing? Quite simple really - because it isn't going to do anything for the organiser other than to cause them to have to invest stacks of money with very little return and basically nothig to show for it. Adelaide IS the exception - but you seem to forget one thing about the Clipsal event - it carried on from an already established meeting - the AGP. This question will never be able to be answered but ask yourself, and others, this - would Clipsal have even been started IF if had to be organised, initially, from absolutely nothing - no prior event, no established infrastructure etc. I seriously doubt it. Last edited by NewsStalker; 23 Dec 2007 at 06:34. |
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