Lets review what garbage Montoya is.

[Piquet]

Originally posted by Ralf's Girl


He is the one who won Williams' first race since 1997 - and in fine style too, I might add. He is the one who scored their first pole position since 1997.

Ah! but Ralf's Girl (how can I possible change your mind with a name like that !) what you say may be true - but I'm afraid I can't accept that as a reason why Ralf should be considered on a higher level than JPM. Granted, for the fact that he is ahead in the WDC I give the credit - but I think next year will be different!

That's my 2 pence worth!

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by BBKing
How conveniently you have pointed out Hungary but forgotten about Brazil. I thing both races are similar: One of the Williams drivers struggling to keep the car in the black stuff. For some reason I know you will find a good reason for what happened in Brazil yet none for what happened in Hungary.

Are we referring to Ralf being rammed from behind halfway round the first lap? Or the fact that his car was henceforth very iffy on the track, so he spun off when it rained? It didn't make a difference - he was a few laps down after having to have his rear wing changed anyway. In Hungary, both Ralf and Montoya were suffering from handling problems. However, Ralf's level of experience showed - he drove maturely, fended off Hakkinen and kept out of trouble. Montoya showed how rash he is, and went steaming round trying to overtake when it was clear that it would never work.

Originally posted by BBKing
Little one in another level OF EXPERIENCE compared to formula Juan. 5 years of F1 experience I should add. If you are old enough to remember little one used to be a regular visitor of the green stuff during his 2 first seasons. It is just a matter of time until his brother is great but he is nicer bites the dust. …LOL

But that wasn't the issue - the original question was about Ralf's level of ability now, not what it was when he was 21 years old and fresh out of Formula Nippon. I certainly gave Ralf room for error in his first year - he had only won a small championship. JPM has come from winning the CART championship, which is a much higher level of single-seater racing.

[R]

Aha! Now we can compare them! Ralf has only won a small championship, while Montoya has won a much bigger championship, therefore Montoya is better!

[Ralf's Girl]

Or I could argue that Montoya should be doing better than Ralf did in 97 because he has come into F1 with a much higher level of single-seater experience than Ralf had. Therefore, their first seasons are incomparable.

[BBKing]

Gotcha RG. What was Formula Juan supposed to do if an idiot hit him from behind and taken away a really good chance of winning the first race for Williams since 97? BTW, Ralf was out of the black stuff 3 times, 2 in the dry and 1 in the wet

. Montoya showed how rash he is, and went steaming round trying to overtake when it was clear that it would never work.

How would you know if something would not work if you don try? That is the something you can put on Formula Juan’s side when it comes to merits: He tries which I consider a key element for a great driver. On top of this you could apply your logic that explains why little bro was spinning in Brazil. That is, what had Juan to lose if he was running in 8th behind an slower car other than try to get ahead of him rather than drive it safely back home? He is not in contention for anything this year, he might as well use it as a learning ground for next year when he will challenge for the title.

Level of ability now is related to experience, is it not? Would you expect little bro less of what he has done? I actually expected more from him. 5 years of experience has to be a big advantage.

[AndyF]

Ralf has the experience, whilst Montoya has the 'attitude' that it takes to get far in the sport. Overall - I call a draw.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by BBKing
How would you know if something would not work if you don try?

I could tell as soon as I saw him trying to overtake around the outside of turn 1 that there was no way he was going to keep in on the track. Absolutely no way.

[Craig]

I just remembered why I generally steer clear of the F1 forum... sorry kiddies for spoiling your fun i'll leave now...

[BBKing]

Originally posted by Ralf's Girl


I could tell as soon as I saw him trying to overtake around the outside of turn 1 that there was no way he was going to keep in on the track. Absolutely no way.

That is because you are you RG. F1 is merely for humans....LOL

Look at the way Formula Juan overtook Panis and Trulli at Imola. Those places are usually places where there is no way to overtake, yet he did it. Sometimes works, sometimes it does not.

[R]

Originally posted by Craig Antill
I just remembered why I generally steer clear of the F1 forum...

And I remember why the Indy forum is a much better place to be... I could easily have done without reading this topic.

[AndyF]

Originally posted by Craig Antill
I just remembered why I generally steer clear of the F1 forum... sorry kiddies for spoiling your fun i'll leave now...

I think I'll join you Craig!!!!

I go somewhere in the middle. Montoya is probably a little over-hyped, and has not lived up to the billing he's recieved. But then if he's that bad, how could he have taken two second places!? AGGY, your comments are out of order - and remember this is a fun forum, not a place to start personal vendettas.

No-one listens to me any-way

[Quadrifoglio]

So far this season I have bet Montoya to win at Silverstone and Hockenheim, ok Silverstone was a mistake, the tyres let down the package but Germany was looking good and at 10/1 I was in for some serious cash but hey I put my money where my mouth is and at the moment I am saying he will win at Monza and possibly Spa. Anyone else placing bets?

Montoya is a class act with a solid track record in Europe before his USA exploits made him famous. Remember class is permanent, form is temporary!

[Bononi]

WOW !!!!!

The guy comes in, blows out everything, makes everybody talking to each other and vanishes in the air...

A real una-bomber !!!!!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Bononi
The guy comes in, blows out everything, makes everybody talking to each other and vanishes in the air...

A real una-bomber !!!!!

Oh please! Don't you see what's happened?

He's Australian, you came on after his mother had tucked him quietly into bed!

I believe she read him the Michael Schumacher book of bedtime stories at about 7:30, he was asleep by the time she got to his 1992 win at Spa.

[Bononi]

Good one, Ray.

Hope you're near to keep him quiet...

[Ray Bell]

Oh, he's one of those who hasn't put in any details. Afraid of giving his countrymen a bad name...

[eatapc]

I agree that this thread has been in some respects an embarrassment to our forum, but the topic itself is worth discussion. Basically, the jury is still out on Montoya. He's shown great promise, but Ralf is still #1. I'll attach the qualifying differentials chart from Atlas F1 (I hope that's kosher, and that you can read it.) Over the course of a year, these differentials are a good gauge of pure speed, and Ralf is almost a half second faster.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, that is interesting, and a prima facie case to say, as you do, that the jury is still out...

He's racing on some circuits he hasn't seen before, but that's not the whole question, there is car setup, working with a new crew and other things.

But Ralf is, by today's standards, much faster, so far. I feel sure it will change, even if he only becomes as fast as Ralf. There's no reason there to call him garbage, however.

[AGGY]

Originally posted by AndyF
I go somewhere in the middle. Montoya is probably a little over-hyped, and has not lived up to the billing he's recieved. But then if he's that bad, how could he have taken two second places!? AGGY, your comments are out of order - and remember this is a fun forum, not a place to start personal vendettas.

Ok i`ll tone down my emotive language,but you guys will know my true feelings right.

[AGGY]

Originally posted by angst
I have to say that, although I don't agree with AGGY I don't think he has been abusive.
AGGY - far from us being sucked in by media frenzy, I think you've been listening to Scumachers too much. It's been covered over and over, but Montoya did NOT overdrive in Germany. Beware of taking a Schumacher's word as gospel

And I'm sure that whe Juan-Pablo is winning regularly you will come forward and admit to how wrong you were....

What has schumacher ever said that can explain 8th in Hungary behind saubers....some of you use the line ..he can OVERTAKE,well where was his overtaking in Hungary,it`s obvious that Brazil was a fluke,backed up by the ridiculous outbraking at Austria...He can`t overtake any better than DC can..see Monaco 01 for example.

I don`t believe he will win the WDC next year,if the williams is up to speed i think the title will be between The schumacher brothers.

[AGGY]

Originally posted by bghaw
[B]AGGY: First off, welcome to this forum. Although i am far from agreeing with your opinions of Montoya, and certainly the way you pursue them, this is an open forum that grants the liberty of speech to all members old and new. However, as with all things in life, RESPECT is a privelege that must be EARNED, and thusfar, you have proved to be moving in the opposite direction.

Which respect...some people have agreed some haven`t,i have be told that my approach is too hostile...i repeat,i haven`t abused any forumers...i have taken on board that i should modify my language as some people are over-sensitive.

Head has refuted any allegations that Montoya's extra speed could have caused the engine to let go. "Nothing Juan Pablo was doing in any way used his engine harder than Ralf," he said in The Guardian. "He was using no more revs. When it goes against you, it goes against you, but he had everyone covered, including his team-mate, and is very happy."

On several occassions, you have asked members of this forum to prove you wrong by facts; here's one instance.

So you believe that it serves a purpose to publicly berate your driver/s?.

Montoya is: a big mouthed garbage bin. Secondly, when you ask Mr. Montoya to "stop downplaying Schumacher's achievements," do you realize yourself what you are doing to Montoya's accomplishments as a rookie F1 driver who secured one pole, 2 second place finishes, and was on track of winning 2 grand prix? (YOU are downplaying HIS achievements) Albeit his performance may be inconsitent, he is certainly not the "garbage" that you propose he is. If anyone, it should be Button who should be berated as the promise who never was.

ROOKIE PLS !!!!!!!
Good results . I think not
Grabbed pole . In GERMANY with a 7kph speed advantage BIG DEAL

The above is another forumers opinion,i concur...Big deal,one pole.

Also why did he pull out in front of JossV and then brake...that very thing was discussed in their briefing...he did it anyway.

Your making assumptions he would have won and not done something habitually stupid again.

]
Lastly, your closing statement, "your (you're) the only one," is irrelevant as there is no linear correlation between that sentence and the ones prior to it. (He's the only WHAT??) In conclusion, your poor sentence structure only suggests your convoluted thoughts which are characteristic of 1) a child who has yet much to learn from teacher teacher 2) an arrogant teen who needs to pay more attention in class (and F1), or 3) an adult whose parents had the same last name before they were wed. In anycase, take your sh1te somewhere else unless you can learn to clean your own arse.

So you analyse(layman`s) my wording and under the pretense of helping me improve you hand out abuse...a touch hypocritical don`t you think.

My friend AGGY, you have come to the wrong forum if you expect to spit venom. Unlike the other "garbage" forums that you post on, Ten-Tenths will not tolerate CONTINUED ignorant and pompous posters. It will only be a matter of time when you and your minions of idiocy will get burned from the consuming fire, otherwise known as the wit and wisdom of our members.

Do you have anything constructive to say.

Put down your pop psychology mags and read carefully what i say,ok.

Your austentasious rant has had zero impact other than laughter,thanks have a great day.

[RALFANATOR]

Originally posted by R
Aha! Now we can compare them! Ralf has only won a small championship, while Montoya has won a much bigger championship, therefore Montoya is better!

thats it R . TCF is no ROOKIE but he keeps stuffing up and DNFing
not the sign of a champ (more like chump)

[Ray Bell]

Of course, like a lot of drivers do...

Driving on the same track as Jos... now that was a big one, and having the engine that wasn't going to make the distance in Germany... well, it must have been clear to him...

How would it be if they all drove around at eight tenths then, would you bother?

[AndyF]

No, drive at ten-tenths (.com)!!

[Robert]

Hello Aggy,

You are Monza Ron Dennis and I claim my prize!

Robert