[Team] Racing Point: What now for Force India

[BSchneiderFan]

Otmar Szafnauer said he was worried Force India wouldn’t come out of administration, like Caterham and Manor before it.

[S griffin]

Well now he gets to keep his job, hopefully

[BSchneiderFan]

The new owners would be unwise to let him and/or Bob Fearnley go.

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

You don't get to be a billionaire by handing over cash for nothing and no doubt he will cite Williams lack of performance and sending his son out in a dangerous car at Silverstone as examples that he has not received the level of performance he had paid for. Could be the end for Paddy Lowe as Williams reassess the business plan.

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I would suggest that the business logic that built such a fortune has been overshadowed by parental ambition.A useful F1 driver might build a personal fortune of 40-50 million over several years of moderately successful competition.Lawrence Stroll has reportedly spent several times this amount in trying to buy some success for his son and would have been in a better position had he just given his son a cheque for the amount mentioned.The performance of the Williams might just reflect the ability of the drivers to discern the effects of any developments fitted or to extract the maximum from the equipment.I do have to wonder if an engineer or two might be seconded from Silverstone to Grove to help out for the rest of the season.Then we arrive at the time when decisions about who goes where for 2019 need making.

[midgetman]

You know, not everyone goes racing just to become fabulously wealthy. From weekend warrior to F1 star, 100% people are there because they are addicted to racing fast cars.

So if I could afford to pay for my son to be one of only 20 people a year who can call themselves Grand Prix drivers, would I do it? In a heartbeat. And before we completely write Lance off, he can drive the socks off the keyboard racers here. There are many "pay drivers" who still didn't make it to F1 because they weren't good enough.

Does buying FI make financial sense? Probably not, but I bet none of the great team owners worry about the finances. I doubt Rob Walker never saw a return on his money, nor Ecurie Ecosse and probably most of the money men behind modern GT and LMP teams. But they are as addicted as the drivers, motor racing is a powerful drug.

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[Tourer]

Originally Posted by midgetman

You know, not everyone goes racing just to become fabulously wealthy. From weekend warrior to F1 star, 100% people are there because they are addicted to racing fast cars.

So if I could afford to pay for my son to be one of only 20 people a year who can call themselves Grand Prix drivers, would I do it? In a heartbeat. And before we completely write Lance off, he can drive the socks off the keyboard racers here. There are many "pay drivers" who still didn't make it to F1 because they weren't good enough.

Does buying FI make financial sense? Probably not, but I bet none of the great team owners worry about the finances. I doubt Rob Walker never saw a return on his money, nor Ecurie Ecosse and probably most of the money men behind modern GT and LMP teams. But they are as addicted as the drivers, motor racing is a powerful drug.

Spot on - there is a definite addictive quality to motorsport, no doubt about it. To me it appears that Mr Stroll Jnr, whilst not the next Senna is a competent Grand Prix driver. I don't expect him to win any races in all honesty but given the right situation, he may be able to get closer to the pointy end on occasion.

Plus, if Mr Stroll Snr structures it right and uses the team to promote some of his own brands, at least some of the cost can be used as expense against income to assist with the company's tax position.

Either way, it IS good to see that the team has cultured another ownership structure. Mr Mallya rescued the team previously and the team moved forward, now that his situation has changed someone else has the opportunity to do the same thing.

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by midgetman

You know, not everyone goes racing just to become fabulously wealthy. From weekend warrior to F1 star, 100% people are there because they are addicted to racing fast cars.

So if I could afford to pay for my son to be one of only 20 people a year who can call themselves Grand Prix drivers, would I do it? In a heartbeat. And before we completely write Lance off, he can drive the socks off the keyboard racers here. There are many "pay drivers" who still didn't make it to F1 because they weren't good enough.

Does buying FI make financial sense? Probably not, but I bet none of the great team owners worry about the finances. I doubt Rob Walker never saw a return on his money, nor Ecurie Ecosse and probably most of the money men behind modern GT and LMP teams. But they are as addicted as the drivers, motor racing is a powerful drug.

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Thank you for illustrating my point.Parental desire for success often does trump cold logic.I don't think using Rob Walker as an example is particularly apt as he was one of the few who could afford his hobby.More recently I think almost all the owners have to keep at least one eye on the finances.Maybe Mercedes would be an exception,but there are lots of reputed examples of fairly desperate acts to keep the money flowing-Frank Williams selling the carpets from his house for example.I just hope that the resurrection of Force India (or whatever they now become) doesn't see the suppliers take a big financial hit.

[midgetman]

You've missed my point. Of course Rob Walker could afford it, as I'm sure can Lawrence Stroll - or maybe not as he heads a consortium and it isn't all his own money. My beef was with the point "why doesn't he just give his son the 40 mil he could earn as a top F1 driver and stop wasting our time" (to paraphrase!).

Motor racing is never about the money. It's about the passion, it's about the experience, it's about the lifestyle. Cold business decisions don't come into it very much. And I bet Lawrence is enjoying it every bit as much as Lance.

"The only way to make a small fortune from motor racing is to start with a large one."

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[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by midgetman

"The only way to make a small fortune from motor racing is to start with a large one."

Max, I'll leave it to others to provide the list of exceptions that prove the rule to this but to get the ball rolling, I'll start with Ron Dennis and Eddie Jordan.

[BSchneiderFan]

Presumably Lance would rather be an F1 driver with a rich dad (and a man who will never have to worry about money as long as he lives) as opposed to missing out on F1 and having £40 million (or whatever). Lawrence is helping his son live his dream; he has an absolute right to do that and I wouldn’t begrudge him it. Lance isn’t some kind of Taki Inoue-style no-hoper, he’s a decent enough pedaller with a down-on-their-luck team.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Presumably Lance would rather be an F1 driver with a rich dad (and a man who will never have to worry about money as long as he lives) as opposed to missing out on F1 and having £40 million (or whatever). Lawrence is helping his son live his dream; he has an absolute right to do that and I wouldn’t begrudge him it. Lance isn’t some kind of Taki Inoue-style no-hoper, he’s a decent enough pedaller with a down-on-their-luck team.

I have previously said much the same thing on several occasions when there was criticism of him having a seat because of "daddy's money". If Stroll senior had not tipped all that money into F1 there would have been a lot of people out of jobs just now and he went a long way to supporting Williams when they needed it. Apparently attacking Stroll junior buying a seat through Dad's money is seen as a mortal sin in fandom when more likely it is jealousy and the tall poppy syndrome coming to the fore. Let's see what those same people say now.

[bjohnsonsmith]

The proof of the pudding will be, if Lance Stroll is up to the job and can deliver the goods.

Other than that, I'm glad to see Force India have been rescued, a diminished grid would not be good for F1.

[chillibowl]

i have no issue with Stroll Sr for funding an F1 team. i suppose i could say that directly and indirectly he has placed a lot of money in Mercedes' hand/feeding a system of escalating prices but F1 is an expensive sport, its his money, and he is free to spend it how he wants to.

plus i am ecstatic the team is being saved!

the problem for me is that there is a line somewhere in the sand (hard for me to pinpoint of course) between this being a top tiered sport where the best of the best compete and on the other side, access to money being more important than talent.

Stroll jr does have talent so it is hard to say he is there just because of money but the amount of money makes it hard to think his position is about anything other than money....again i cant exactly explain where the line is but i feel like it has been crossed here.

of course things like this have been common in the past (although not to this level imo) but the world has changed and sports is supposed to be the one place where merit is the only consideration.

long story short, i think its great that a lot of jobs were saved but for how long?

the question becomes how long does Stroll sr's commitment to F1 go if his son is not a part of it anymore?

if his son leaves Willaims and he takes that family money with him then what happens to the employees at Williams?

i guess we wait for the next billionaire who has a kid with a dream to come along...surely that is also an unstable way forward.



sort of a side point ( somewhat unrelated to my previous point and perhaps even invalidating it)....why do we look at drivers so differently?

if Stroll Jr wanted to be a car designer and his dad paid for his son's university education and used his connections to get his son a job with an F1 team would anyone have an issue with that?

would we even know or care?

[VIVA GT]

I think it will be quite ironic (and Frankly -no pun intended - quite sad) if Stroll taking his wallet to Force India means that Team Willy ends up in the same boat as they were, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. If the Williams plan is to become Mercedes 'B' team I can see that backfiring now as surely Force India would be a stronger (and I'd guess cheaper) alternative.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Max, I'll leave it to others to provide the list of exceptions that prove the rule to this but to get the ball rolling, I'll start with Ron Dennis and Eddie Jordan.

Bugger. Guess that makes me the rule that proves the exception.

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[S griffin]

I think Stroll snr should be applauded for keeping a team on the grid. Shows he cares. Even if it means putting Stroll Jr in the seat, that’s his choice. As long as he gets the right people, he should be alright

[bella]

cares? it's his modus operandi. it's got nothing to do with caring. he was waiting for one to be in a precarious situation so he could get it for as cheap as possible...

[ASCII Man]

Considering it's a consortium and not just senior, I doubt he'd have all the power in this shindig.

[peebee2]

What if it’s 90% him with the others to make it look more consortium-like?

[ASCII Man]

Good god!

[peebee2]

I heard it is largely Mr Stroll with some “small” partners.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Does anyone know what percentage of the consortium Mr. Stroll controls?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by bella

cares? it's his modus operandi. it's got nothing to do with caring. he was waiting for one to be in a precarious situation so he could get it for as cheap as possible...

I read on Twitter that he is a Great Brand Leader. If that is the criteria then racing has nothing to do with it. What came first, Ferrari or the Ferrari brand? Apply the same to McLaren, Mercedes and to an extent Williams.

[gert]

Originally Posted by bella

cares? it's his modus operandi. it's got nothing to do with caring. he was waiting for one to be in a precarious situation so he could get it for as cheap as possible...

Would that be any different if someone else bought the team?

I don't really care who bought it, and why he bought it. I think the team being sold is better than it going belly up... For the sport and for all concerned.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I read on Twitter that he is a Great Brand Leader. If that is the criteria then racing has nothing to do with it. What came first, Ferrari or the Ferrari brand? Apply the same to McLaren, Mercedes and to an extent Williams.

What exactly is a Great Brand Leader? What brands and what markets? Not all markets are suited to the same brand and vice versa.