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Old 29 Mar 2017, 23:34 (Ref:3722513)   #151
JABWOA
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Brundle wrote a nice(!) article about the AGP, particularly being the new rules were all about being fast, not lack of passing. However, Albert Park isn't a passing track with only T3 being a near sure bet if you get a good enough run out of T1. The rest of the corners are simply too fast for a lunge under brakes.

But I was very surprised by Vettel being able to shadow LW for so long and then stay out much further, which wouldn't have been the case last year. I think they would have still won (or friggen close) but then Merc screwed it by pitting LH into traffic.
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Old 30 Mar 2017, 00:20 (Ref:3722523)   #152
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I literally have no idea why they keep adding upper surface aero to the cars when the widely held belief is that this is massively counter productive to the racing. Again, the general thinking is that underbody aero is the solution, so why hasn't this been explored?
"Because you can see the changes in upper body aero and it allows you to differentiate one car from another."
Loose quote from Ross Brawn in early interview when asked why aero was allowed to get ever more complicated but suspensions were being regulated "as they fans could not visually tell what changes millions of dollars of R&D had made on a car.
Guess if it is underneath you can't see it and therefore a no go zone.
Hell with the racing!
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Old 30 Mar 2017, 01:59 (Ref:3722533)   #153
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When you look at the original Albert Park circuit you have to wonder how much better it would have been than the new layout and reverse direction. It would also have resulted in less disruption in the park.
Does anyone know who was responsible for designing the new layout?






North of the new circuit at bottom of page.

Last edited by wnut; 30 Mar 2017 at 02:07.
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Old 30 Mar 2017, 06:18 (Ref:3722551)   #154
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Was at the 56 Albert Park event which was a sort of support event for the Olympic games and drew a (for then) excellent field. MOss and Behra in 250F Maserati s for the main event and in 300S Maserati s for the Sports Car race. As I recall Moss won by almost a lap. For those days that was close racing
The circuit was narrow, edged with large trees and a few hay bales, and by today's standards horrendously dangerous for competitors and spectators.
It was also considerably shorter than the existing layout so would have required major works, and probably an even greater change in the use of the park for the rest of the year. The whole excuse for the development was "beautification and cleaning up of the Park" which had become a rather unsavory area.
The present layout incorporates a number of roads which are part of the suburban traffic structure of Melbourne, and also fits the demands of delivering spectators by trams to the circuit well.
Don't know who designed the circuit, but would guess that the alignments required for traffic flow for the rest of the year would have been dominant factors along with what was economically and politically expedient. Ron Walker was the God-Father of the project.
Maybe some improvements are possible but anything like the original layout would probably be impossible.
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Old 30 Mar 2017, 14:54 (Ref:3722620)   #155
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wnut the original layout would have been much too fast, if the full length of Aughtie Drive was used. The aerial shot shows where it originally ran, 'behind' the pits. The road was moved and the layout of the sports ovals changed to accommodate the GP track, including increasing the lap length, at the (minor) cost of reducing the usefulness of Aughtie Drive as a thoroughfare.

The second change at turn 3/4/5 I think was due to building and road change that probably occurred in the 60s, while the last significant change is the lack of the left-right jink after turn 12. You can see where the road diverts to join Queens Rd which runs alongside the park; I expect that in the 50s the road the current track uses did not exist, and obviously using Queens Rd would massively inconvenience regular traffic.

The aerial view also shows how the corners on Lakeside Drive, 9/10 & 11/12, are extended and tightened for the GP circuit to slow them compared to the original circuit and current road configuration which would be ridiculously fast otherwise.

I think the current circuit better suits the current cars overall.
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Old 30 Mar 2017, 23:15 (Ref:3722675)   #156
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The whole excuse for the development was "beautification and cleaning up of the Park" which had become a rather unsavory area.

What a wonderfully nice way to describe the parklands pre-GP.
Spent many weekends down there while visiting the grandparents.

As to the design of the track, I read somewhere but haven't found it since, that Mr Tilke had some contribution to the track (way before he became the only source in the F1 circus) but also heard that it was designed locally.
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 00:02 (Ref:3722684)   #157
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Jean Todt. Short and French.

Even though napoleon wasn't actually short for his time.
Or French
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 09:15 (Ref:3722744)   #158
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He was born in Corsica wasn't he? That's French.
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 10:36 (Ref:3722756)   #159
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He was born in Corsica wasn't he? That's French.
It is now - but it wasn't when he was born there.
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 12:13 (Ref:3722778)   #160
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Not sure on that. Treaty of Versailles was 1768, Napoleon was 1769.
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 13:05 (Ref:3722787)   #161
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Not sure on that. Treaty of Versailles was 1768, Napoleon was 1769.
But the French didn't officially make Corsica a part of France until 1770....
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 13:54 (Ref:3722800)   #162
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Sorry I got mixed up with my treatys, it wasn't Versailles I don't think. Corsica was conquered in 1769 by the French however. But this is getting wayyyy off topic. Until Todt decides to invade small islands.
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 15:29 (Ref:3722813)   #163
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is it that far off topic though?

almost 100 years after the treaty of Versailles was signed, the 'Allied' Nations' teams attempting to stem the tide of German dominance is still a fight being played out in F1.

i say lets disarm the Mercedes works team and force them to give up their engine factories and pay reparations only to the British, French, and American teams.

this of course will back fire and result in Merc getting really really angry resulting in the mother of all temper tantrums.
Ferrari will flip flop about whose side they are on until the Americans make them an offer they cant refuse.
Red Bull and STR will be annexed and take on a Mercedes Engine deal.
Renault will remain forever useless but will inexplicably continue to make comments how they are the most important team on the grid.
Sauber, remaining neutral, will entertain engine deals from all sides but will remain irrelevant except to shady businesses wishing to hide their money.
Force India will be courted by all sides but in the end will remain loyal to the interests of the British teams.
it will take some time for Haas to cross the ocean but when they do they will surprise with their ingenuity.
at Mclaren a long time king was forced to abdicate mainly because no could explain away his penchant for axis engine designs.
and over at Williams, an old and battle tested leader will reemerge and in his final act bring his team back to greatness!

stupid history always repeating itself!
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 15:52 (Ref:3722815)   #164
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is it that far off topic though?

almost 100 years after the treaty of Versailles was signed, the 'Allied' Nations' teams attempting to stem the tide of German dominance is still a fight being played out in F1.

i say lets disarm the Mercedes works team and force them to give up their engine factories and pay reparations only to the British, French, and American teams.

this of course will back fire and result in Merc getting really really angry resulting in the mother of all temper tantrums.
Ferrari will flip flop about whose side they are on until the Americans make them an offer they cant refuse.
Red Bull and STR will be annexed and take on a Mercedes Engine deal.
Renault will remain forever useless but will inexplicably continue to make comments how they are the most important team on the grid.
Sauber, remaining neutral, will entertain engine deals from all sides but will remain irrelevant except to shady businesses wishing to hide their money.
Force India will be courted by all sides but in the end will remain loyal to the interests of the British teams.
it will take some time for Haas to cross the ocean but when they do they will surprise with their ingenuity.
at Mclaren a long time king was forced to abdicate mainly because no could explain away his penchant for axis engine designs.
and over at Williams, an old and battle tested leader will reemerge and in his final act bring his team back to greatness!

stupid history always repeating itself!
This was a different Treaty of Versailles, signed in 1768, not the one signed after WW I.

Back to Jean Todt, ever since his appointment as head of the FIA, he's been very conspicuous by his absence. The only significant thing I can think of, that he's done during his tenureship, was to make peace with ACO and help set up the WEC. Otherwise his impact on F1 has been non-existent.

Last edited by bjohnsonsmith; 31 Mar 2017 at 16:00.
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 17:14 (Ref:3722830)   #165
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This was a different Treaty of Versailles, signed in 1768, not the one signed after WW I.
i know...but that didnt work for my joke post.
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 18:01 (Ref:3722852)   #166
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But this is getting wayyyy off topic.
Off topic or not, I enjoyed the short Corsica "French or not" discussion!

Richard
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 23:17 (Ref:3722925)   #167
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S
But this is getting wayyyy off topic.
Since when has staying on topic been important?
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 23:19 (Ref:3722926)   #168
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Off topic or not, I enjoyed the short Corsica "French or not" discussion!

Richard
Depends on who you ask.
As I currently work in Italy, the response to Corsican and Napoleon heritage may seem very abstract to some.
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 23:47 (Ref:3722928)   #169
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i know...but that didnt work for my joke post.
Epic post Chilli, much enjoyed!
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Old 1 Apr 2017, 00:43 (Ref:3722932)   #170
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stupid history always repeating itself!
Great post Chillibowl
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