[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[GasperG]

Yes, but only marginally in the <5 HP range, with same engine efficiency.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Updated P1 EoT for Le Mans
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...EOT_150313.pdf

Interesting. So, this demonstrates that EoT adjustments are still possible before LM

The reason invoked here appears to be slight adjustments/changes in the 2015 specifications of petrol fuel.

[ger80]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Interesting. So, this demonstrates that EoT adjustments are still possible before LM

The reason invoked here appears to be slight adjustments/changes in the 2015 specifications of petrol fuel.

I guess Audio requested for water to be added ?

[Deleted]

It goes against Audi actually (again)... in contrast to the December regs

Petrol flow
All +0,5 kg/h

Petrol capacity
All +0,2 l

Once-a-year modding my ass

[GasperG]

No it doesn't, Fuel Technology Factor Pmax has ben adjusted down from 8.8 % to 7.6%, but this was already done in one of the previous EOT in december 2014, meaning that Diesel fuel flow got up by 0.8 kg/h.

Here is the link to last year LeMans regulations:
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...004%202014.pdf

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by GasperG

No it doesn't, Fuel Technology Factor Pmax has ben adjusted down from 8.8 % to 7.6%, but this was already done in one of the previous EOT in december 2014, meaning that Diesel fuel flow got up by 0.8 kg/h.

Here is the link to last year LeMans regulations:
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...004%202014.pdf

The 2014 specs are utterly useless in this context. What you speak of (Fuel Tech Pmax etc) was changed last summer, and that was part of the written-in-the-regs-once-a-year LMP1-H balance of performance. Which was fine. Those changes were then carried out to the December's 2015 LMP1 regs sheet. NOW HOWEVER, they've changed petrol values from that Dec update

You need to compare the 2015 regs (December edition), Appendix B
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...19.12.2014.pdf

To that new updated March 2015 Appendix B
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...EOT_150313.pdf

Which means they're kinda violating their own rules

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

Interesting. So, this demonstrates that EoT adjustments are still possible before LM

The reason invoked here appears to be slight adjustments/changes in the 2015 specifications of petrol fuel.

Before, after... and the problem is that is very difficult to implement *during*...

Clearly there is an agenda... that has nothing to do with 'sport', least of all in the supposed equilibrium of 'energy usage'... its right there for anyone to see, energy usage 'per lap' has never been the same, and never will, the reward that the most *efficient setup* is supposed to enjoy has always been out of the window, towards an 'utopia' that falls short of leting the regulators to steer the cars themselves... but with the technologies, now going full drive, of self-driving cars, wont take long before the drivers are abolished(its safer!)<sarc/>...

The remarkable is that non-hybrid petrol cars have now even more 'fuel flow allowance' than in F1( which is already a monstrous show of non-efficiency considering the fuel flows involved)... now it would be possible to see cars with plenty of flames coming out of the tail pipes and loud roaring noises, efficiency be damned, but most of the audience wont complain at all !...

And IIRC diesel numbers remains the same, but petrol augments in tank and fuel flows capacity compared to the last draft taken from Mulsanne's Corner ( http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjan15.html ; http://www.mulsannescorner.com/2015LMP1.pdf )

Aggravated by the fact that *fuel energetic content* is not disclosed again ( would be nice to follow the calculations), and neither checked if truth and or enforced... making all nothing but a charade!..

speaks volumes about the supposed "equilibrium factors" calculations... simply flawed, or not counting at all regarding the power of 'arbitrary decisions'.

[and wonder if anyone would wont to enter with a C/LNG(methane) engine (there are already road cars/trucks), which 'a priori' has even quite more energy per mass(kg) than either petrol or diesel and is theoretically more efficient in the combustion(already a gas)... what will be the factors !? .. would they let it develop !?]

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by ger80

I guess Audi requested for water to be added ?

But since no one is checking, wont be surprised if they add 'turpentines' instead ( huge energy content)...

[GasperG]

@chiana, earlier in this thread Nigel posted this:

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

There are further changes to the revised LMP1 Technical Regulations published on July 3rd, 2014 (which changes will be applicable starting from January 1st, 2015) which I did not pay much attention to during my first reading, but which will lead to necessary changes next year.

There you have it:
April and July 2014 : Diesel 2MJ - 80.2 kg/h, Petrol 6MJ - 89.5 kg/h
December 2014: Diesel 2MJ - 81 kg/h
March 2014: Petrol 6MJ fuel flow: 90 kg/h

So my conclusion is that against last years season this year diesel gets 1% more fuel flow and petrol gets 0.5 % more fuel flow, where am I wrong?

Also note that we don't know fuel density nor energy content, there may be differences from last year and these adjusted values mean nothing.

[ger80]

Will for sure be interesting to see if the new petrol works better or worse for turbo engines. AER/Mazda had some issues a few years back with one spec of fuel

[manthey]

http://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-...il-2015-geneva
find below the decisions taken by the World Motor Sport Council
FRI 20.03.15, 5:05PM

FIA WORLD ENDURANCE CHAMPIONSHIP

To limit costs, the following changes have been made for 2015:

New limitations will be enforced with regards to engines. LMP1 Hybrid competitors may homologate only one type of power train for the season. In this category, the number of engines will be limited to five per season and to seven for a manufacturer entering its first season in the Championship.
The number of team personnel authorized for entrants competing in the Manufacturer’s World Endurance Championship has been limited, with the conditions available online.
The number of testing days allowed for competitors entered in all categories has also been limited.
To improve safety, new regulations will be enforced with regards to the weight of drivers. If the average weight of drivers entered in a car is below 80 kilogrammes, ballasts will be imposed.

A single engine will be designated with the goal to universalize the 2017 LMP2 category.

The FIA Driver Categorisation Regulations have been amended. New criteria and procedures for the attribution of Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze driver status are available on FIA.com.


http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/s...-lmp2-in-2017/
All categories in the FIA WEC will also have a limited number of test days this year. These are as follows:

For LMP1 competitors only

A maximum of 10 closed private testing car/days are allowed.
A maximum of 20 closed private testing car/days are allowed for any new car manufacturer entering the Manufacturers' World Endurance Championship.
A maximum of 10 open private testing car/days respecting the pre-announcement period of 30 days are allowed.
A maximum of 30 open private testing car/days respecting the pre-announcement period of 90 days are allowed.
For LMP2 competitors only

A maximum of 5 closed private testing car/days are allowed.
A maximum of 10 open private testing car/days respecting the pre-announcement period of 30 days are allowed.

[Starfish Primer]

Resistance is booming, let´s repeat the some of the errors that are sinking the F1!

[J Jay]

I dare say that if LMP1 wasn't in such rude health manufacturer-wise the ACO wouldn't have dared to play fast and loose with the LMP2 regulations for fear of upsetting chassis manufacturers that they may have come to rely on in the near future.

[chernaudi]

So testing limits break down in LMP1 and other classes (outside of LMP2) as:

10 full-on private test days.

10 public test days split among any given 30 day period after announcement (not counting ACO/FIA organized tests, ie LM Test Weekend and the WEC Prologue).

30 public test days split among any given 90 day period after announcement (not counting ACO/FIA organized tests, ie LM Test Weekend and the WEC Prologue).

[chernaudi]

I've noticed that all the LMP1 cars--namely Audi and Toyota--have the emergency engine shut off pulls duplicated and positioned on the windshield near the lower rear corners.

Is this an ACO/FIA rule change?

[Starfish Primer]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

So testing limits break down in LMP1 and other classes (outside of LMP2) as:

10 full-on private test days.

10 public test days split among any given 30 day period after announcement (not counting ACO/FIA organized tests, ie LM Test Weekend and the WEC Prologue).

30 public test days split among any given 90 day period after announcement (not counting ACO/FIA organized tests, ie LM Test Weekend and the WEC Prologue).

When they say "the number of engines will be limited to five per season and to seven for a manufacturer entering its first season in the Championship." Season is only races or will it include the test days? At least they have been more clever than F1 keeping a waiver for new manufacturers.

[Deleted]

15 private test days for LMP2 cars? What crap. Oh well I guess it doesn't matter anymore since it's all gonna be self cannibalized anyway.

Yeah exactly Starfish. And this is only the beginning, who knows how much they've cloned the F1 recipe in five years time. Maybe all the testing there is will be done at some one week long collective pre-season meeting at Bahrain, with rest of the running only allowed during race weekends...

[TF110]

They can get away with it in lmp2, but lmp1 goes that route they can kiss Toyota Audi and Porsche goodbye. Nissan might stay to pick up the scraps against lowly private teams to express their gratitude for being the engine supplier.

[wolfhound]

The ACO and IMSA are to continue their allience until at least the end of 2020 with the American LMP2 teams getting more entries to the LM24hrs. Both sides seem pretty happy with what has been achieved so far.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118154

[Snips1]

It's a good move. Lmp1 still gets 50 days of testing per year. Not bad.

[Bandicoot17]

Originally Posted by Snips1

It's a good move. Lmp1 still gets 50 days of testing per year. Not bad.

yeah, would be interesting to know how many testing days they were doing before this was bought in tbf. Could be that everyone was doing in the ballpark of 50 anyway.

[wolfhound]

50 days of testing. If one takes a working week of 5 days that's 10 weeks of testing in a year which seems quite a lot.

[ger80]

likely still better value than doing all sorts of test on test rigs and simulators that the F1 guys do

[TF110]

I dont think any lmp1 team ran 50 days of testing or close to it last year. But for someone like Nissan, they may need it.

[Spyderman]

Each car testing counts as one day, so if you have 2 cars testing for 5 days, that counts as 10 days.