ALMS Round 9/ILMC Round 6: Petit Le Mans 29 Sep -1 Oct

[JAG]

Another crash, another Audi driver mistake.

Thats what happens when Peugeot have the number of Audi, they take unneeded risks.

[rustyfan]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

He had a decision to make, why? BECAUSE MONTANGY FORCED IT UPON HIM. Geez!

No, he had a decision to make because he was impatient and decided to try and force his way in between the Peugeot and the Porsche. He could just as easily have lifted ever so slightly and gotten in behind the Peugeot. Dumas screwed up, plain and simple, just like McNish did at Le Mans.

[Simmi]

TheRaceTool Declan Brennan
@MartinHaven Consensus here is that Montagny moved (he could) and Dumas reacted and mis-judged the position of the Porsche - Romain's fault

[Carsandmotorracing]

Nascar burn LOL.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by JAG

Another crash, another Audi driver mistake.

Thats what happens when Peugeot have the number of Audi, they take unneeded risks.

They don't seem to handle such situations well, even Dr Ulrich who's usually classy turns into a sore loser then.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Sorry so late. If the car can't be repaired, you should be out. This is endurance racing. It is a test of car speed, driver speed, car endurance, driver endurance, team pit stop speed, and team technical ability.

Chris

A car isn't enduring well if it's sitting in a gravel trap

[AndrewF31]

3 lanes for 3 cars: http://youtu.be/_ARKwVoZuFc?t=2m13s

2 lanes for 3 cars: http://youtu.be/_ARKwVoZuFc?t=2m14s

But chernaudi puts forward some interesting points.
The problem here is Pug drivers have been 'deliberately' doing certain suspicious actions this year that this could be another one, or just an unfortunate sequence of decisions and events by the 2 drivers that ended badly for one of them.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Carsandmotorracing

Nascar burn LOL.

As I have said, Martin Haven and Nick Daman are simply brilliant.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

anyone else getting a lack of sound on the live feed?

http://radiolemans.0157.org/nplayer.php

[PascaLM]

The visibility problem of 908 and R18 is manifest : Montagny hit the Zytek at Silverstone, and Dumas hit the Porsche, believing the car was overtaken, don't you think so ?

[NightStalk3r]

looks like BMW's cool track whose are coming back, both have dropped off the cars they were fighting with over the last few laps.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

The visibility problem of 908 and R18 is manifest : Montagny hit the Zytek at Silverstone, and Dumas hit the Porsche, believing the car was overtaken, don't you think so ?

The R18 definitely has a visibility issue even though Audi is denying it. The #2 hit three GT cars (!) today alone... Tom K & McNish never had this issue in the other cars before and I highly doubt that both have turned into idiots all of a sudden.

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

A car isn't enduring well if it's sitting in a gravel trap

Lol. *Facepalm*

Chris

[chernaudi]

The only reason I would say that Montangy is suspect here is that on ALMS notes' Twitter, Franck complained about his tires and the Audi was faster, but I don't really see any discernible malicious intent here.

Of course, that being said, Peugeot's track record, especially in the last year with blocking/team orders is fairly dirty with blatant moves, so Pug's hands are dirty and it's easy to blame them, but after seeing the replay, Franck made a move to the left, probably in contour with the track. Romain reacted, and I doubt that either though that the Porsche was there.

As the commentators said in the reply I watched, if I were Dumas, I'd be PO'd too, but this is racing, and accidents happen. And unless malicious intent can be proven, it's a racing accident from my POV.

Personally, I think that Audi and Peugeot will be glad to get out of PLM--both will have at least one DNF, and have had hard races.

I agree with the assessments on the R18 and the 908 having visibility issues. McNish and TK are no dummies, and even though I do think at times that advancing years are starting to take their toll, they can't possibly have forgotten how to drive, and even the Pug guys have had the occasional spin/accident this year because they have a narrower windscreen.

I know that the closed cars are needed for performance at LM under the new regs, but these guys will always build the smallest cockpits possible under the regs.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

The visibility problem of 908 and R18 is manifest : Montagny hit the Zytek at Silverstone, and Dumas hit the Porsche, believing the car was overtaken, don't you think so ?

Wondering how that could be solved.... Radar + HUD? Problem would be getting that bullet proof....

[vyselegend]

Originally Posted by AndrewF31

3 lanes for 3 cars: http://youtu.be/_ARKwVoZuFc?t=2m13s

2 lanes for 3 cars: http://youtu.be/_ARKwVoZuFc?t=2m14s

But chernaudi puts forward some interesting points.
The problem here is Pug drivers have been 'deliberately' doing certain suspicious actions this year that this could be another one, or just an unfortunate sequence of decisions and events by the 2 drivers that ended badly for one of them.

Let's not forgett one thing. All Peugeot had to do to win the championship was bringing the #8 home in second place. They were absolutely not in position to gain anything by risking a crash, so even those who think (I don't) that Frank was wrong to move left should at least agree he didn't plan to risk a crash, because if both cars had crashed then the winers would have been Audi!

Acid, I think you're way too harsh on Ulrich and Dumas. There's a difference between being professional and being a robot. Being very angry and shooting at others after such a tragedy is ok for human beings. Don't forget how much all those guys invest themselves and give everything for a team result. Emotionally such a failure is very heavy. Remember how Quesnel and De Cunac fell in tears atLM 2010, in front of all televisions! It's just proving they're not joking with their motivations...

Besides, Quesnel has not always been "classy" too regarding comments against Audi after clashes.

[Rodger Davies]

cheers JAG, hadn't been paying close enough attention to realise RLM were there sans Hindy - Martin Haven and Nick are a more than reasonable alternative though.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

The only reason I would say that Montangy is suspect here is that on ALMS notes' Twitter, Franck complained about his tires and the Audi was faster, but I don't really see any discernible malicious intent here.

Of course, that being said, Peugeot's track record, especially in the last year with blocking/team orders is fairly dirty with blatant moves, so Pug's hands are dirty and it's easy to blame them, but after seeing the replay, Franck made a move to the left, probably in contour with the track. Romain reacted, and I doubt that either though that the Porsche was there.

As the commentators said in the reply I watched, if I were Dumas, I'd be PO'd too, but this is racing, and accidents happen. And unless malicious intent can be proven, it's a racing accident from my POV.

Although I admit it is not as cut and dry as I initially claimed I do believe that the margins were so fine and it happened so quickly that Montagny can't be definitively blamed. Plus he's within his rights to take the racing line. It's just a racing incident.

[MitchZ06]

So you'd just finish the race second to ensure a win or actually win the race? I know what I'd choose...

[Simmi]

Can't imagine the #2 is coming back out of there now.

[Mockenrue]

#2 Audi now behind the wall. Off to bed I think...

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by vyselegend

...There's a difference between being professional and being a robot. Being very angry and shooting at others after such a tragedy is ok for human beings. Don't forget how much all those guys invest themselves and give everything for a team result. Emotionally such a failure is very heavy. Remember how Quesnel and De Chaunac fell in tears atLM 2010, in front of all televisions! It's just proving they're not joking with their motivations...

Yes, that's one of the reasons why we like endurance so much.

[chernaudi]

Montangy definitely moved over, but unless we have proof to the contrary, I do believe that it's harsh and hasty to call this anything other than a racing accident.

I do know about the Pug rep and all of that, but after seeing that replay, I don't see how we can judge this as anything but an unfortunate accident, and this is coming from a big time Audi fan.

We can't deny that Franck moved over, and from the cockpit view, it did seem that Montangy was rather close for comfort to the Audi, but is that what we "saw", or is it because of the visibility issues that all closed LMP1s are rumored to have to some degree?

It's a racing accident, and IMSA is calling it a racing accident, it's unfortunate, but that does mean that all that's left for Audi and Peugeot at Zhuhai is to win the race, aside from that, they have nothing to lose or gain from the results there, though it's rumored that Audi and Peugeot now will use China as an R&D for '12 round, but we'll get to that point when we get there.

From what I can tell, it's a racing accident, it happened, it is what it is, pretty much time to move on.

[rustyfan]

Yikes, lots of close calls between prototypes and GTs. If they keep this up we haven't seen the last SC that's for sure.

[deggis]

One thing is great in this: neither Peugeot or Audi are no longer "just testing for next year's Le Mans".