ALMS Round 9/ILMC Round 6: Petit Le Mans 29 Sep -1 Oct

[henk4]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Henk4, you should come over next year for Petit Le Mans if it is a part of the WEC.

There are lots of hills and dips along the circuit, which means some great action shots of the cars all along the track.

It is the best spectator road course I've been too. I had a great time!

Is it comparable to the Charade track at Clermont Ferrand in France?

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by henk4

Is it comparable to the Charade track at Clermont Ferrand in France?

Don´t know, is that the old GP track? Wasn´t that one referred to as the ´small Nordschleife´? All I can say Road Atlanta is truly one the best road courses in North America and still very much ´old-school´. And nothing MM about it! Go and ask some of the (european) drivers that have driven there - they absolutely love it!

As said before it has a LOT of elevation changes and some of the best turns you´ve ever seen, the Esses (between turns 4 and 5), turn 1 and turn 12 sticking out. They´ve only changed turn 10 (which took some glamour out of turn 12 I guess) in 1998/1999, I´m sorry not to witnessed the old turns 9 & 10...

Henk, in order to have Road Atlanta a guaranteed spot on your schedule for next year you should put it on top of your list! (or second but it doesn´t clash with LM). It´s a great ´little´ track - and with little I mean not that long in distance. But while the average European track (of the same length) has a laptime of around 1.30´ Road Atlanta´s best lap is just over 65 sec - hence the average speed around there!

See you next year then!

[Steve Tarrant]

Originally Posted by henk4

Is it comparable to the Charade track at Clermont Ferrand in France?

Having just returned from marshalling there for the second time, I'd have to say the nearest European track to match Road Atlanta is Brands Hatch, with the hills, dips, rollers and turns.

You have to be there to experience it!!!! Reporting it from TV pictures will never do it justice.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Steve Tarrant

Having just returned from marshalling there for the second time, I'd have to say the nearest European track to match Road Atlanta is Brands Hatch, with the hills, dips, rollers and turns.

You have to be there to experience it!!!! Reporting it from TV pictures will never do it justice.

My only trip to England, as soon as I left the airport, I told my buddy to take me to Brands...NOW. Beautiful track, great viewing and similar to RoadATL, I must agree (obviously, they have their small differences). Both are incredible, both have the best Turn 1s in motorsports and both are a MUST visit for all road racing fans, IMO.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by Steve Tarrant

Having just returned from marshalling there for the second time, I'd have to say the nearest European track to match Road Atlanta is Brands Hatch, with the hills, dips, rollers and turns.

You have to be there to experience it!!!! Reporting it from TV pictures will never do it justice.

Where were you stationed at?

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Steve Tarrant

Having just returned from marshalling there for the second time, I'd have to say the nearest European track to match Road Atlanta is Brands Hatch, with the hills, dips, rollers and turns.

You have to be there to experience it!!!! Reporting it from TV pictures will never do it justice.

Are you now talking about Brands or Charade?

[Steve Tarrant]

Originally Posted by henk4

Are you now talking about Brands or Charade?

I've never talked about Charade, read YOUR question again!!!!

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Where were you stationed at?

Turn 7.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Steve Tarrant

I've never talked about Charade, read YOUR question again!!!!

I did, and because you quoted me I was under the impression that you implicitly gave a judgement about the Charade track.

[broadrun96]

Except he clearly compared Road Atlanta to Brands in his reply, no mention of Charade in his answer anywhere. He cleary gave a judgement of Road Atlanta, in comparison to Euro tracks. Having seen pics and video of testing at Ricard, thanks but I'll take mickey mouse tracks like Road Atlanta every time and be happy snobby 'sophisticated' fans will stay home and leave it to the rest of us.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Except he clearly compared Road Atlanta to Brands in his reply, no mention of Charade in his answer anywhere. He cleary gave a judgement of Road Atlanta, in comparison to Euro tracks. Having seen pics and video of testing at Ricard, thanks but I'll take mickey mouse tracks like Road Atlanta every time and be happy snobby 'sophisticated' fans will stay home and leave it to the rest of us.

Oh, come on, Steve quoted me, and I simply asked a question. Am I the bad guy now because I dared to call RA a mickey mouse track?
Being to Charade a couple of times, I do think RA is a little bit less exciting, but apparently we have nobody here who has been to both tracks and might be able to confirm that. And I also think that one should not let loose 50+ endurance cars on Charade.

[gregtummer]

Ideally LMPC and GTC cars should not have participated in Petit Le Mans, but I do not think it is right that they be excluded since they propped up ALMS car counts this year.

Being told "thanks for helping us, but screw you, we dont need you for the biggest (or 2nd) race of the season" is just wrong.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Ideally LMPC and GTC cars should not have participated in Petit Le Mans, but I do not think it is right that they be excluded since they propped up ALMS car counts this year.

Being told "thanks for helping us, but screw you, we dont need you for the biggest (or 2nd) race of the season" is just wrong.

There were no LMPC cars at the 24 hours, so that could have been seen as an example.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Ideally LMPC and GTC cars should not have participated in Petit Le Mans, but I do not think it is right that they be excluded since they propped up ALMS car counts this year.

Being told "thanks for helping us, but screw you, we dont need you for the biggest (or 2nd) race of the season" is just wrong.

I absolutely agree with this statement. Nobody is going to the races to see those cars and all they do pretty much is bring out FCYs. Some may say that is a good thing, but not me.

Originally Posted by henk4

There were no LMPC cars at the 24 hours, so that could have been seen as an example.

Yeah, but you can't really compare the two situations. Everyone knew in advance that LMPCs/GTCs aren't in Le Mans so excluding them is obvious. Also, there is no LMPC championship in the ILMC. There is in the ALMS and those teams were told and expected to be in Petit. Telling them a few weeks before the race that they can't race because of the expected grid size would be unfair to the Challenge teams. Maybe alternate arrangements can be made ahead of time for 2012, but possibly not being in the two big races would still be a blow for some of those competitors.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by AGD

I absolutely agree with this statement. Nobody is going to the races to see those cars and all they do pretty much is bring out FCYs. Some may say that is a good thing, but not me.



Yeah, but you can't really compare the two situations. Everyone knew in advance that LMPCs/GTCs aren't in Le Mans so excluding them is obvious. Also, there is no LMPC championship in the ILMC. There is in the ALMS and those teams were told and expected to be in Petit. Telling them a few weeks before the race that they can't race because of the expected grid size would be unfair to the Challenge teams. Maybe alternate arrangements can be made ahead of time for 2012, but possibly not being in the two big races would still be a blow for some of those competitors.

Well, in that case it could have been made clear to them at the beginning of the season that they could have a championship, but not a race at PLM (or may be a separate one)

[AGD]

Originally Posted by henk4

Well, in that case it could have been made clear to them at the beginning of the season that they could have a championship, but not a race at PLM (or may be a separate one)

Right. Hopefully this has been done or will be done for 2012. I'm sure it will. There's still confusion about how Sebring is going to work (and Petit too I suppose if it is a WEC event) so we will have to see.

The funny (sad?) thing is that if all full season ILMC entrants were removed from the Petit results, the overall winner and overall 2nd place at Petit would have been LMPC cars. If you take the Challenge cars out of the mix, the Flying Lizard Porsche would have been the overall winner. Of course, it is worth mentioning that one of the ILMC entrants that finished above the LMPC cars was Tucker's full season ILMC LMP2 car. If you want to count that as an ALMS car, then it would have been the overall winner with two LMPC cars making up the rest of the overall "podium."

In other words, man, the WEC better come back to Petit in 2012 or at least some of those cars better come and race! Having an LMP2, LMPC, or GT overall winner of an elite race would be embarrassing.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by AGD

Right. Hopefully this has been done or will be done for 2012. I'm sure it will. There's still confusion about how Sebring is going to work (and Petit too I suppose if it is a WEC event) so we will have to see.

The funny (sad?) thing is that if all full season ILMC entrants were removed from the Petit results, the overall winner and overall 2nd place at Petit would have been LMPC cars. If you take the Challenge cars out of the mix, the Flying Lizard Porsche would have been the overall winner. Of course, it is worth mentioning that one of the ILMC entrants that finished above the LMPC cars was Tucker's full season ILMC LMP2 car. If you want to count that as an ALMS car, then it would have been the overall winner with two LMPC cars making up the rest of the overall "podium."

In other words, man, the WEC better come back to Petit in 2012 or at least some of those cars better come and race! Having an LMP2, LMPC, or GT overall winner of an elite race would be embarrassing.

didn't the Porsche RS win some elite races?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by henk4

didn't the Porsche RS win some elite races?

Yes, but the LMP2 of 2-3 years ago is not the same as LMP2 of today.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by AGD

Right. Hopefully this has been done or will be done for 2012. I'm sure it will. There's still confusion about how Sebring is going to work (and Petit too I suppose if it is a WEC event) so we will have to see.

The funny (sad?) thing is that if all full season ILMC entrants were removed from the Petit results, the overall winner and overall 2nd place at Petit would have been LMPC cars. If you take the Challenge cars out of the mix, the Flying Lizard Porsche would have been the overall winner. Of course, it is worth mentioning that one of the ILMC entrants that finished above the LMPC cars was Tucker's full season ILMC LMP2 car. If you want to count that as an ALMS car, then it would have been the overall winner with two LMPC cars making up the rest of the overall "podium."

In other words, man, the WEC better come back to Petit in 2012 or at least some of those cars better come and race! Having an LMP2, LMPC, or GT overall winner of an elite race would be embarrassing.

Wow those stats are amazing.

I have heard from someone in the know that the ALMS does not want the WEC at Petit Le Mans.

I know this sounds astonishing but I guess the holdup is that the WEC only wants their cars there and none of the ALMS cars.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Wow those stats are amazing.

I have heard from someone in the know that the ALMS does not want the WEC at Petit Le Mans.

I know this sounds astonishing but I guess the holdup is that the WEC only wants their cars there and none of the ALMS cars.

I have questioned the capacity of RA in terms of car numbers. Obviously I am not alone...

[Mal]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

I have heard from someone in the know that the ALMS does not want the WEC at Petit Le Mans.

I am sure that would be their favourite option providing the ALMS has enough entries to host a decent event or the event is still able to attract top quality overseas entrants on its own merit.

I am not convinced that is the case though

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Mal

I am sure that would be their favourite option providing the ALMS has enough entries to host a decent event or the event is still able to attract top quality overseas entrants on its own merit.

I am not convinced that is the case though

Me neither although the Laguna Seca race had something like 36 entrants. If the ALMS alone would attract around 40 cars and maybe a couple of WEC visitors, the number of cars would be sufficient. But it would contain of almost 50% challenge cars - Not something I look forward to very much...

Originally Posted by henk4

I have questioned the capacity of RA in terms of car numbers. Obviously I am not alone...

Certainly not, but the discussion so far has somewhat focused on SC´s rather than on gridnumbers. I also believe 50+ cars for Road Atlanta is too much, a drop of approx. 10 entries is more sensible in my mind.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Me neither although the Laguna Seca race had something like 36 entrants. If the ALMS alone would attract around 40 cars and maybe a couple of WEC visitors, the number of cars would be sufficient. But it would contain of almost 50% challenge cars - Not something I look forward to very much...

Sufficient for what though? Sufficient to maintain this year's fan interest level? For that, it's not about numbers so much as it is about who is there. You could have 20 cars, but if Audi, Peugeot, Corvette, and a couple other GT cars are there, the fans will probably be sufficiently satisfied. Obviously the ALMS regulars in GT and LolaMP1/2 will be there, but I don't know about the others. Audi may come, but Peugeot looks doubtful. Would the fan interest be there if just Audi shows up? Well, Sebring 2010 still had a bit of a buzz with just Peugeot so maybe.

The bigger issue is how much the ALMS will BoP their LMP1s I think. Even Audi may not want to show up if the ALMS gives their LMP1 cars windtunnel sized restrictors and massive weight breaks. So we'll have to see.

It's hard to speculate about Petit when there are so many unanswered questions about Sebring even.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by AGD

Sufficient for what though? Sufficient to maintain this year's fan interest level? For that, it's not about numbers so much as it is about who is there. You could have 20 cars, but if Audi, Peugeot, Corvette, and a couple other GT cars are there, the fans will probably be sufficiently satisfied. Obviously the ALMS regulars in GT and LolaMP1/2 will be there, but I don't know about the others. Audi may come, but Peugeot looks doubtful. Would the fan interest be there if just Audi shows up? Well, Sebring 2010 still had a bit of a buzz with just Peugeot so maybe.

The bigger issue is how much the ALMS will BoP their LMP1s I think. Even Audi may not want to show up if the ALMS gives their LMP1 cars windtunnel sized restrictors and massive weight breaks. So we'll have to see.

It's hard to speculate about Petit when there are so many unanswered questions about Sebring even.

I believe Pug have already said they would not be there and why should they as they don't sell in the US market, but if Audi and hopefully Toyota showed up as the US market is essential to both of them then maybe it would work?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Mal

I believe Pug have already said they would not be there and why should they as they don't sell in the US market, but if Audi and hopefully Toyota showed up as the US market is essential to both of them then maybe it would work?

Petit has been a Peugeot vs. Audi affair for the last few years. Even with all the whining, I think the fans genuinely appreciate the battle. Would the fans come if it was just Audi? I don't know. Like I said, there was still some buzz at Sebring in 2010 with just Peugeot, but I don't know if it'll be the same in 2012. Maybe the ALMS could give the other LMP1s a real boost to keep up. I don't know if I'd like that, but that could keep the crowd happy. I don't know.

We'll see about Toyota. The rumors seem solid, but that program is vaporware until it actually races as far as I'm concerned. You never know what Toyota is thinking.

[rblanshard]

Hey guys. I started a blog/website last year to document my trip to Le Mans. I've slightly modified it to cover the race two weeks ago.

Thought you might like my write-up: http://robertblanshard.wordpress.com...petit-le-mans/