Group A Toyota Corolla History (merged)

[ae86James]

What a great thread. I've had a real good read through this and there is some great input from everybody with some great information. Had to join up to be honest just say say thanks for the great info! Keep it coming

[Eircamae86]

Pics from racingsportscars.com

[terryobeirne]

car #113 pictured is mine.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by terryobeirne

car #113 pictured is mine.

Terry, you forgot to mention that it's for sale!

[Eircamae86]

A bit of Macau

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bew3VdwXirE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSLfc...eature=related

[Eircamae86]

Messing around going back through old pics during the hols & came across a few of the missus old Daily GXI Corolla, I purchased the rims in the UK many,many moons ago. They had the TOMs logos & were supposed to be off one of their GpA ae82s ???? Any idea?
Great little tow car!!!!, forget the how low the rear is as there was at least 500kgs in the boot!

[oldeskewltoy]

not enough E7s in this thread

[chunterer]

Welcome oldskewltoy, the reason there are no 'E7's' is probably because that model car (or at least the one in your image, smart as it is) wasn't a Group A car.

Sorry to be pedantic but the thread is about Group A cars. I would love to read more about the type of car in your image if you would like to start a separate thread and i'll move this across later.

[willofan]

Hey guys, stumbled across this thread trying to find more information and images on the cars I now plan to restore for the current owner.

The first is the AE86 GT coupe that John Smith drove between 1985 and 88. This has been on display at the Bathurst museum for many years till last week when I pulled it out and taken back to the workshop in Sydney.



The other is the 1989 Bates/Dowson car. This car saw many years in storage at the Neal Bates Workshop and dragged back to Sydney last year and put on display at MCM in September at Eastern Creek.



If any one has any information, results, logbook records, homologation papers, stories, images, parts, engines, little tit bits or knows someone who worked on these cars. Please let me know.

There was the original Sprinter, there was two GT coupes, 2 AE82's and 2 AE92 in this period. I know where the other AE86 GT is, one of the AE82's and the other AE92.

TTA was run by Tony Niovanni in Melbourne, one of the mechanic was the late Peter Tighe. John Smith and Neale Bates have been helpful but not much to go on as everything was passed on after 1993.

Piecing together the history should be as much fun as the restoration its self. Any help would be appreciated.

Rgds, Chris
willofan@live.com.au

[DAVID PATERSON]

Now is probably a good time for an Aussie where are they now? Following is a list of all the Australian Group A Corollas and what i believe to be their current situation. Please speak up anybody who knows more/different.

TTA AE86 Sprinter - Years ago Steven Toth was close to finishing a total restoration, heard nothing since.

2 x TTA AE86 GT - Both spent many years in Bathurst museum. I've always been told they are still owned by Toyota who aren't interested in selling. If they are now privately owned, i'd love to see them restored & racing soon in historic Group A.

2 x TTA AE82 - One is owned by Scott King and is in immaculate condition and was racing in historic Group A until recently. Would love to see it racing again. The other was owned by Brad Stratton for many years and is now owned by Peter Herlihen and has been restored to it's TTA spec & livery. I keep encouraging Peter to race it in historic Group A.

2 x TTA AE92 - I was very surprised and happy to see the Bates/Dowson car at MCM and look forward to seeing it restored. I'm told the other car was converted into a rally car and was destroyed/badly damaged years ago.

Bob Holden's first AE86 - Terry O'Beirne has owned this car for many years and is nearly finished restoring it to 1990 ATCC spec.

Bob Holden's AE86 renter - I bought this from Terry O'Beirne in 2007 and it's entered for Bathurst next weekend, after a total restoration to 1987 ATCC spec.

Ratcliff AE86 - This became Geoff Full's car and gave Paul Morris his Bathurst debut. I'm told it was convered into a rally car and was later destroyed in a traffic accident.

Mal Rea AE86 - This was one of the last Group A cars ever built and did just three races before Group A was killed off. It then did many years of club level Sports Sedan racing, but fortunately it wasn't greatly modified and will soon be restored to compete in historic Group A.

2 x Bob Holden ex TOM's AE82 - Bob still owns one of these cars and races it regularly in historic Group A. Terry O'Beirne owns the other car and has raced it recently in historic Group A and now has it on the market for around $60K. Both cars are still in original condition!

I think that's all of the, I'd love to know if there were any other Australian Group A Corollas.

[Jesper OH]

That's an impressive summary, David, and quite a number of cars that were around. I'm currently going through the Australian Group A race results posted by William Dale, Jr. with the intention of finding the history of the various cars. The idendity of the Corolla/Sprinter/Levins seems fine enough for the first few years, but for the latter years (1992 being my latest of research) its mainly only results, with the odd sighting in the Bathurst DVDs.

They must also be quite sturdy cars as many of them, from your post, seems to have survived a quarter of a century, as many of them must have quite a number of racing laps on them.

Jesper

[KA]

It's certainly an impressive survival rate! By comparison, all of the British cars (apart from the fwd TOM'S car that went to Australia) seem to have fallen off the radar long ago

[willofan]

Thanks David for your information regarding the current status of all the TTA Corolla’s very good news they are all still around mostly. This has helped fill in a few pieces of the puzzle.

I have also since found the ATCC AMSCAR and Endurance results for each year here on 10/10ths too and which has become very useful. Wikpedia is very scratchy and has many blanks.

Now one of the AE86 GT coupes and the Bates/Dowson AE92 FX-GT are still owned by ToyotaAustralia and a proposal being circulated to get funding for the restoration of both. Hopefully this should happen from April 2011. The other GT coupe is owned by the Museum after it was donated to them by Toyota and has since been restored cosmetically and dubbed the 1885 and 1986 Bathurst winner. (I asked and ‘NO’ they won’t sell it)

The AE86 GT coupe I picked up was numbered 31 and has co-drivers J.Smith and J. Faulkner as been together. But no where in the results can I see this livery and race number used with both of these drivers in the same event. Very confusing as John Smith nearly always co-drove with Drew Price (Smith was cross entered over the two cars with Faulkner one year at Bathurst). Also this race number was used for the ATCC in 87 and 88 not for enduros with these two drivers.

Anyway, I can change the livery and drivers once I can confirm which car has which drivers match the car I have, then we will choose the event and set the car up accordingly.

This brings me to the next dilemma, since both cars ran together at many events from mid 1985 through to late 87, it appears that the information I have found is very confusing. The cars were not always presented in the correct race number and depending on who was available to drive, the drivers where changed around conflicting with assigned race numbers and this shows up in the results over the years.

So how do I confirm the actual event, Driver, race number and results of each the cars by VIN?? This would only be by logbook which no one seems to know where they are.

Any more information on this would be greatly appreciated as there are some remarkable historians who live for this sort of research.

Look forward to hearing from anyone who has some or a lot of information.

To the moderators: Do I start another thread or keep it here??

[chunterer]

willofan, if you want to discuss the chassis number history of these cars/specific cars then you could open a thread in the chassis forum. (That could conceivably include TTA, CHMS and Tom's cars for example?).

if it's general fact finding and chat then continue in this thread for now.

[Jesper OH]

Why was the two TTA AE86s based on 2-door sedan version, when all other AE86s raced in Australia were of the 3-door coupé variaty? From the Ford Sierra RS500 thread the two-with-a-barn dor-extra caused a lot of flexibility in the unibody design, for that car and might also have contributed to the choice of TTA?

Jesper

[racer69]

When was the last time this car raced?

Darryl Bennett raced an AE86 Coupe in TTA colours, running #31, at the ATCC rd at Sandown in 1989

[willofan]

Originally Posted by racer69

When was the last time this car raced?

Darryl Bennett raced an AE86 Coupe in TTA colours, running #31, at the ATCC rd at Sandown in 1989

It appears Toyota was keen to get as many points as possible towards the manufacturers championship, so they ran as many cars as they could muster bringing in some new names to TTA.

Now looking closely at results since then, I have found John Smith drove #31 for the last time at Oran Park ATCC 9/7/89 before he got the new MA7# Supra for the Enduros.

This would have given them the points to edge out Ford by 3 points.

Any pics would be great, thanks

[KA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Why was the two TTA AE86s based on 2-door sedan version, when all other AE86s raced in Australia were of the 3-door coupé variaty? From the Ford Sierra RS500 thread the two-with-a-barn dor-extra caused a lot of flexibility in the unibody design, for that car and might also have contributed to the choice of TTA?

Jesper

That's an interesting question- did marketing have anything to do with it?

Comparing Australia with the European scene, as you say, only TTA ran the 2-door, though they also appeared with the 3-door on occasion. The Australian privateers, Bob Holden etc seem to have favoured the 3-door (Was the 3-door called a 'Sprinter' in Australia?)

Conversely, if you look through the pics of ETCC cars on Racingsportscars etc, you'll see that the European teams, almost to a man, seem to have used the 2-door shell. The only significant exceptions I can think of are the Danish Nielsen/Hoyer Castrol car and Stig Gruen's car (both 3-door)- and the British teams...
http://www.racingsportscars.com/type...0GT.html?cat=4

The rwd Corolla presence in the BTCC- Chris Hodgetts, Alan Minshaw, Tony Crudgington, Geoff Kimber-Smith and Stig Gruen- was 100% the 3-door hatch/coupe, as were the few seen in Production Saloons (Was the 2-door even available on the UK market?).

Similarly, the leading Group A Corolla campaigners in UK rallying (Per Eklund's Toyota GB car, Graham Middleton etc) seemed to have favoured the 3-door shell as far as I can remember).

Looking at pics of cars in Japan, at Macau and the TOM'S entries at Spa, many of the Japanese teams also seem to have preferred the 3-door AE86 over the 2-door sister model...

[Jesper OH]

I think it has come up before, but a recab might be worth anyway. The 2-door AE86 was used for Group A racing by teams with bases in:
Finland (Dealer Team)
West Germany (Schumacher/Tilke)
Belgium (Fina Racing)
France
Switzerland
Czekoslovakia (Alber/Charouz)
Italy
Spain (Camac Racing)

The 3-door AE86 was then used by team based in:
Sweden (Gruen)
Denmark (Nielsen)
Great Britain (Hodgetts, Kimber-Smith, Crudgington)

In Japan the 3-door was sold as the Levin, but I don't know if the Corolla Levin name was used or just Levin. Almost all the Japanese AE86s was of this variety, but at least one team raced the 2-door.

The 3-door also seems to have been the car in Australia and New Zealand.

Jesper

[Jesper OH]

I think it has come up before, but a recab might be worth anyway. The 2-door AE86 was used for Group A racing by teams with bases in:
Finland (Dealer Team)
West Germany (Schumacher/Tilke)
Belgium (Fina Racing)
France
Switzerland
Czekoslovakia (Alber/Charouz)
Italy
Spain (Camac Racing)

The 3-door AE86 was then used by team based in:
Sweden (Gruen)
Denmark (Nielsen)
Great Britain (Hodgetts, Kimber-Smith, Crudgington)

In Japan the 3-door was sold as the Levin, but I don't know if the Corolla Levin name was used or just Levin. Almost all the Japanese AE86s was of this variety, but at least one team raced the 2-door.

The 3-door also seems to have been the car in Australia and New Zealand:
Australia as Sprinter (TTA, Holden, Ratcliff)
New Zealand (Myhre)

Jesper

[willofan]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Why was the two TTA AE86s based on 2-door sedan version, when all other AE86s raced in Australia were of the 3-door coupé variaty? From the Ford Sierra RS500 thread the two-with-a-barn dor-extra caused a lot of flexibility in the unibody design, for that car and might also have contributed to the choice of TTA?

Jesper

As stated, the first TTA Corolla Sprinter (VIN: AE86 0000023) was a 3 door liftback and the similar 4AC spec as sold in Australia from 1983. My guess is this car was a ‘goshi build’ (first line built car which explains the early VIN) and sent to Australia in standard trim for product assessment, new model launch and dealer training duties.

These goshi builds have no compliance plates and as such cannot be road registered or sold, hence relegated to racing duties when Group A was announced from 1984. However, I will confirm this when I sit down with John Smith to record his recall of events.

Then 1985 saw the first of the TTA 2 door GT coupes, as already mentioned this model was never sold in Australia by AMI Toyota (Australian passenger car distributor). In fact all of the TTA Corollas raced in Australia following this were all JDM spec AE86 2dr coupes or AE82/92 3dr hatches.

From what I am led to believe the cars were ordered by AMI Toyota and built in TMC Japan to Group A Touring car spec as used around the world to meet FISA homologations then sent to Aust. This then carried over to the TTA AE82/92 FX-GT’s and later to the awesome TTA MA7# Supra Turbo that John Smith still looks after (now with Mercantile Mutual livery) and blows out the cobwebs occasionally in historics.

This still leaves the question, what is the difference between racing an AE86 3dr liftback to a 2dr coupe?? Is it, chassis stiffness, weight, aero dynamics or simply is it what was available at the time…………..or a combination of all of these!!!

[grimo74]

So does anyone know which car it is sitting in toyotas HQ yard at Cronulla. There is a what appears to be a late group a two door hatch (not a sprinter) there as well as an early production corolla (perhaps Bob Morris from an early Bathurst)race car and a TRIUMPH dolomite race car on a trailer (looks similar to the one that rear ended Jack Brabham all sitting in the parking lot heading towards shark park

[willofan]

Originally Posted by grimo74

So does anyone know which car it is sitting in toyotas HQ yard at Cronulla. There is a what appears to be a late group a two door hatch (not a sprinter) there as well as an early production corolla (perhaps Bob Morris from an early Bathurst)race car and a TRIUMPH dolomite race car on a trailer (looks similar to the one that rear ended Jack Brabham all sitting in the parking lot heading towards shark park

The white corolla AE92 FX-Gt is the TTA Bates/Dowson car from 1989 awaiting restoration, the red corolla Ke10 is a replica (Morris/Hindaugh 1967) for displays and the Triumph dolly belongs to a staff member.

[thiscocks]

Some pictures I found featuring Phil Dowsetts Tom's Grp A Corolla. Nice looking car. What was the engine of this?

[chunterer]

Warm welcome thiscocks.

The Dowsett car ran a 1600 cc (1587) 16 valve engine and ran in the baby class of the BTCC.

Interesting first shot you have posted is of what I think is the Bob Sands RS500 which did a few rounds early in the '88 season?