Group A Toyota Corolla History (merged)

[thiscocks]

It is 1988 yes! That was at siverstone. Interesting, wasn't sure who drove that sierra. I think the one in the background behind the toyota is Rob Gravetts steed.

[KA]

Nice pics!

Yes, that's the Bob Sands Sierra in the first pic. The other cars behind the Dowsett Corolla in the second pic are Jerry Mahony's Arquati Sierra and the Prodrive/Mobil M3 I think is Mike Smith's car? Also visible in the background (you can see the back end of itin the building- scrutineering bay I think) on the left is the red CHMS Corolla that was driven by Mark Hales and others in the early part of the season

[thiscocks]

Interesting, didn't realise M Hales was racing in the BTCC then. I vaguely recall Mahoney- was he gravetts team mate then?

Here is another:

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by thiscocks

Interesting, didn't realise M Hales was racing in the BTCC then. I vaguely recall Mahoney- was he gravetts team mate then?

Here is another:

Mahony entered his own car run by Roger Dowson (which was very handy for this '88 season opener as the team was based at Silverstone).

Did Robb Gravett miss the early rounds? I think Pete Hall started the season in the car Robb eventually handled?

There's also Godfrey Hall's sinister black John Maguire prep'd M3 and Alan Minshaw's Golf GTi in that scene.

Also of note an awful lot of people in various team jackets talking to each other. Congratulating each other, or the start of post race protests perhaps!

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Mahony entered his own car run by Roger Dowson (which was very handy for this '88 season opener as the team was based at Silverstone).

Did Robb Gravett miss the early rounds? I think Pete Hall started the season in the car Robb eventually handled?

There's also Godfrey Hall's sinister black John Maguire prep'd M3 and Alan Minshaw's Golf GTi in that scene.

Also of note an awful lot of people in various team jackets talking to each other. Congratulating each other, or the start of post race protests perhaps!

Yep, Gravett took over Pete Hall's ICS Cosworth when Pete called timne on his own driving career a few rounds in- RG took over the car for the rest of the season, apart from the last round at Silverstone, when I think Mark Hales drove it- Robb being away at Bathurst driving one of Dick Johnson's RS500s

Re: Robb Gravett and Mahony, they'd both been sponsored by Arquati in Prodsaloons the previous year. IIRC, the sponsorship started on Mahony's car, and was extended to cover Gravett's car about mid-season. They weren't actually team-mates as such AFAIK- the two cars looked like a 2-car team with almost identical paintjobs, but were run by seperate outfits- IIRC Mahony's by Dowson, and Gravett's by Graham Hathaway IIRC
Mahony stepped up to the BTCC with the Dowson RS500 for '88, but Robb initially couldn't find a BTCC drive until the deal to take over the ICS car came together.

Looking at the pic very closely, I think I can also pick out the other Prodrive/Mobil M3 (red stripe on the bootlid just visible through the window of the Mahony Sierra), Mike Newman's Burlington Wallcoverings RS500 (can just see the back of it in the Scrutineering Bay, in front of the Minshaw Golf) and on the left-hand side, what looks like a blue Corolla- (next to the Golf, and visible through the window of the Prodrive M3)- probably Tony Crudgington's car from the white/red stripe along the bootlid and down the side?

[KA]

Originally Posted by thiscocks

Interesting, didn't realise M Hales was racing in the BTCC then. I vaguely recall Mahoney- was he gravetts team mate then?

Mark Hales had been around the BTCC on-and-off for a few years by then- drove a Terry Drury Racing Alfa for part of 1985, and had various short-term drives after that-
I think he drove two or three different cars in '88- started the season in the CHMS Corolla, took over one of the Toyota Supras for a few races after Chris Hodgetts split with the MIL team and stood in for an absent Gravett in the ICS Sierra at the end of the year

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by chunterer

The Dowsett car ran a 1600 cc (1587) 16 valve engine and ran in the baby class of the BTCC.

The engine is a Toyota 4A-GE, (the same as used in the AE86 RWD Corolla GT). In Toyota's engine numbering system, 4A means version 4 of the A series engine. G means performance oriented, wide valve angle and E means electronic fuel injection. The 4A-GE has exactly the same bore and stroke as a Ford BDA.

[thiscocks]

What was the power of the 4A in race trim?

[chunterer]

It was around the 180hp mark, probably a bit more.

David you'll know the answer!!

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

The 4A-GE has exactly the same bore and stroke as a Ford BDA.

I think we mentioned it already but there's a widely held belief that the 4A-GE was a rip off of the BDA.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by thiscocks

What was the power of the 4A in race trim?

In 1984 with standard manifolds and factory computer they only made 150hp. With a couple of years development and after market ECUs the works cars were making 190hp @ 9000 rpm, the privateers were making 180hp @ 8000 rpm. In 1992 with quad throttle bodies and extractors, they were making 205hp.

[KA]

According to a note in Autosport in December 1986, the two engines used by Chris Hodgetts to win the 1986 BTCC championship (developed and built by Jim Whitehouse of Arden Conversions) produced 174bhp and 171bhp.
The following season's engines would use a Zytek management system amongst other developments, and Chris was apparently predicting that they would have around 195bhp

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by KA

According to a note in Autosport in December 1986, the two engines used by Chris Hodgetts to win the 1986 BTCC championship (developed and built by Jim Whitehouse of Arden Conversions) produced 174bhp and 171bhp.
The following season's engines would use a Zytek management system amongst other developments, and Chris was apparently predicting that they would have around 195bhp

In the video interview below with Chris during the Brands Hatch round of the 1987 BTCC, he said that Jim's engines were developing 25bhp less than the 4A-GE motors that were being used in Japan at that time because the FIA international Group A regulations wouldn't allow them to use the Japanese top end in the motors.

Original video here.

[KA]

That makes sense- if you look at the 1987 ETCC/WTCC results, the CHMS Corolla was amongst the fastest European 1600cc class cars, scoring several class wins- until they got to the Fuji WTCC round, with hordes of local Corollas and Hondas, and were blown away- as I remember, they qualified well outside the top 10 in class.
Hardly surprising if the local cars had a 25bhp or thereabouts advantage!

IIRC one of the race reports at the time (either Autosport or Motoring News) made particular comment on this, and suggested that the local teams had access to parts that weren't available in Europe- I think there might have been a quote from Chris about the local cars running stuff he'd never even seen before...
I think Terry O'Beirne commented on the spec of some of the Japanese-built Corollas earlier in the thread as well.

[davyboy]

Chris seems to be implying that it was the FIA international Group A regs that prohibited him from using the Japanese top end... which begs the question what version of Group A was being run in Japan at the time !

[Jesper OH]

Interesting to note that apparently illegal Toyota Corollas were allowed to race at the Fuji WTCC round. The reason why was likely that none were registrated for WTCC points. As the race was also the penultilate round of the Japanese series it makes even more sence.

By 1987 the major Japanese teams had converted to the fwd AE82. From a later Autosport BTCC review it's suggested that development stopped on the AE86 some time prior to the 1987 production end, but continued on the AE82, which might also explain some of the gap in performance for the Hodgetts AE86.

What ever was under the bonnet on the Japanese Corollas, they were soundly beaten in all six rounds of the domistic series by the same Mugen Honda Civic!

Jesper

[terryobeirne]

some years ago, i was sent a number of pics and details of a Chowini GpA AE86 Corolla that was built for the 1992 Macau WTCC races. There are a number of parts/features on this car that would have precluded it from GpA racing here (at least). Whislt it is clear that some local cars were not always 100% legal, the high power features like quad slide throttles were not legal till the dying days of GpA, and many did not use them due to cost or limited availability.

It appears that many more cars were raced in Japan under their GpN rules, which had many freedoms. Not many of those special parts were useful in GpA.

In Australia, where historic GpA racing is popular, most cars seem to meet the rules of the day, but as usual, there are always a few doubtful features, but few people seem to care.

[Eircamae86]

I saw this else where.............................

Here is some great news,

The Musclecar Madness event at Eastern Creak this September will be a special event this year for us 86 lovers.

Toyota have sucsessfully tracked down all the original TTA race cars and will be putting them on display at this years event as a 25 year selebration of the teams achievement.

[willofan]

Originally Posted by Eircamae86

I saw this else where.............................

Here is some great news,

The Musclecar Madness event at Eastern Creak this September will be a special event this year for us 86 lovers.

Toyota have sucsessfully tracked down all the original TTA race cars and will be putting them on display at this years event as a 25 year selebration of the teams achievement.

Is this what you mean?
Thought I'd give this forum an update on the TTA Group A Touring Cars refered to in this thread.

TTA-1: Corolla AE86 Liftback (sprinter) being restored to 1986 livery by current owner to last TTA specs - lives in Melbourne
TTA-2: Corolla AE86 GT Coupe has been restored as last raced in 1987 by Bathurst TAFE and lives in the Bathurst Museum
TTA-3: Corolla AE86 GT Coupe as last raced by John Smith in 1989 still owned by Toyota and about to undergo restoration in Sydney
TTA-4: Corolla AE82 FX Hatch being restored by current owner to last TTA specs - lives near Dalby in Qlds
TTA-5: Corolla AE82 FX Hatch has been maintained by current owner and can be found in the Bathurst Museum
TTA-6: Corolla AE92 FX-GT Hatch was loaned & subjected to rally service, returned to Toyota repainted to 1989 spec, sat in Neal Bates workshop for 10 yrs and now located back in Sydney at Toyota awaiting restoration.
TTA-7: Corolla AE92 FX-GT Hatch as last raced in Mercantile livery undergoing restoration by current owner in Sydney (also owns TTA-5)
TTA-8: Supra MA70 Turbo still as last raced in Mercantile livery, engine rebuild currently by John Smith located in Sydney.
(order of above TTA-4 to 7 is subject to confirmation once I have VIN's)

It is planned that TTA 1, 3, 5, 6 and 8 will be at Muscle Car Masters in 2011 up and running in some of the events over the weekend. David Paterson, Terry O'Beirne and Bob Holden and others will also be invited to join the Toyota group as well as the Williamson cars. (Also had thoughts about asking the museum if TTA 2 can come to out to play for the weekend)

In order to proceed with the restorations of TTA 3 and 6, I need to pull together as many parts, spares and gear that has since disappeared when TTA was disbanded in 1990. Any information, leads, contacts and images would also be appreciated.

Rgds, Chris (TOYOTA Australia)

[Eircamae86]

I would like to make the trip. Its the weekend after the wrc?

TTA-4: Corolla AE82 FX Hatch being restored by current owner to last TTA specs - lives near Dalby in Qlds

Is this guy open to visits? I would like to go & see

[willofan]

Originally Posted by Eircamae86

I would like to make the trip. Its the weekend after the wrc?

TTA-4: Corolla AE82 FX Hatch being restored by current owner to last TTA specs - lives near Dalby in Qlds

Is this guy open to visits? I would like to go & see

Hey Eircamae86, I have managed to track him down on the lead I had and he will consider coming to MCM.

I will be taking a trip up to Brisbane, Gatton and Ipswich in May and will take time out to go meet up with him. Then back up to Morgan Park in July for the HRCC event at Morgan Park.

That said, it is possible that 7 of the 8 TTA cars could be at MCM with only one AE92 not fit for the show in time, but more likely only 5 will attend.

[Kale]

I have a very goos 4A-GE Engine for sale.
The engine runs in a modified Formula König over the last Jears.
They was incl. sinter clutch , dry sump pan, dry sump pump ...
starter, new gasgets, oil pipes, inlet manifold for tein 45 webers .
The engine is complete - at time - stripped for inspection.
no cracks on the liners - all mparts in very good order
Cheap price !

[Eircamae86]

Originally Posted by willofan

Hey Eircamae86, I have managed to track him down on the lead I had and he will consider coming to MCM.

I will be taking a trip up to Brisbane, Gatton and Ipswich in May and will take time out to go meet up with him. Then back up to Morgan Park in July for the HRCC event at Morgan Park.

That said, it is possible that 7 of the 8 TTA cars could be at MCM with only one AE92 not fit for the show in time, but more likely only 5 will attend.

Cool, Im in Toowoomba, just up the road from Gatton. Give me a shout when you are up. gt.coupe@talk21.com.

[KA]

A couple of nice shots of the CHMS cars at the 1986 TT, by Dan Morgan

#106, the usual Hodgetts car. Was the 'Bennie Hire' sponsorship just for the TT? I don't think I remember it on the car in BTCC races?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57626400626222


#107, the Alan Minshaw/Demon Tweeks car
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57626400626222

[willofan]

Just a reminder that Toyota will be hosting 14 Toyota Historic race cars at the 2011 Australian Muscle Car Masters at Eastern Creek in Sydney over September 3/4.

Among them will be 8 Group A Corolla's, here's a couple of the TTA cars that will be there.










We hope to see you there.