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Old 20 Mar 2017, 15:11 (Ref:3720220)   #241
bentley speed 8
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bentley speed 8 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridbentley speed 8 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
More engine options for LMP1-L is always welcome.
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Old 30 Mar 2017, 16:42 (Ref:3722634)   #242
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Not sure where to place this question. It may already have been answered previously, but... Are either Toyota or Porsche using in 2017 (or previously) Turbulent Jet Ignition (TJI) in their LMP1 engines?

It has been a hot topic within the F1 community. I think Mercedes had it first, then Ferrari, Renault and now Honda is giving it a go. It's not particularly an easy thing to make work. If you don't know what TJI is, it basically is a pre-chamber combustion system to support very lean running (high efficiency). In place of where normally you would find a spark plug in the head, you would have a small pre-chamber, a pre-chamber fuel injector and a spark plug. The fuel in that pre-chamber is ignited and then via specific nozzles, jets of combustion gases are sent into the main combustion chamber to ignite the main (I assume very lean) fuel/air combo. The FJI system accounts for part of the power delivery as well.

http://www.f1technical.net/news/20316

I don't know if Mahle is a Porsche partner or not, but I believe Mahle has worked with Ferrari on their TJI solution.

http://www.mahle-powertrain.com/en/e...-jet-ignition/

I can't seem to find any mention of Honda or Toyota using TJI, but at the same time, I would be surprised if one or both are not using this in 2017.

Richard
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Old 30 Mar 2017, 18:31 (Ref:3722646)   #243
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TF110 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I've read on the autosport forums that Honda is now using it in F1. I would be interested to know if it's on the lmp1's also.
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 08:22 (Ref:3722732)   #244
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knighty should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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I've read on the autosport forums that Honda is now using it in F1. I would be interested to know if it's on the lmp1's also.
for a turbocharged gasoline engine, TJI is without doubt must-have technology.......you can be rest assured if Porsche /Toyota were not using it last year, they will be this year for sure.......the technology is unique to Mahle and heavily patented, so you would need to first sign a mass production contract with Mahle before they let you use it in a race application.......this is how they work on the piston business, no mass production pistons = no race pistons
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 13:55 (Ref:3722801)   #245
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the technology is unique to Mahle and heavily patented, so you would need to first sign a mass production contract with Mahle before they let you use it in a race application.......this is how they work on the piston business, no mass production pistons = no race pistons
That's an interesting assertion. If Mahle holds all of the key patents, then I am sure they will be compensated somehow. Forcing agreement to become an OEM supplier is a big ask. What I find interesting is that when I look for things like press releases for partnerships between the F1 engine manufactures and Mahle, I can find some for Mercedes and Renault that point to road cars (extending back to a time prior to the current engine regulations and TJI). I can find a press release for Ferrari but that is focused purely on the F1 project with no mention of the road car division (no clue if Ferrari is using Mahle in their production cars or not). I did find one article that talks about Mahle working with Ferrari on TJI, and supplying pistons for the F1 project, but it also says that Mahle "used" to provide pistons for Mercedes, but no longer (implication is that Mercedes likely still uses TJI but without all of the bits from Mahle).

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05...iciency-gains/

And so far, I can find absolutely nothing regarding Honda and Mahle (other than aftermarket Mahle components). And it is pretty well accepted that the new 2017 Honda F1 engine uses TJI. So I am "somewhat" skeptical that the "only" option to work with Mahle is a deal to use their components in road car manufacturing. If Mahle truly only does deals that way, then another option is if someone like Honda has found a solution that does not require licensing Mahle IP.

Regarding Toyota and Porsche, it's hard to search out news about Porsche and Mahle because results are so flooded with aftermarket usage. I so far can't find anything about Toyota either.

Richard

Last edited by Richard Casto; 31 Mar 2017 at 14:00.
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 15:19 (Ref:3722811)   #246
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TF110 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTF110 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Not sure if this is the right thread, but a gentleman's agreement between Toyota and Porsche has been put in place to use the current chassis through 2019.
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Old 31 Mar 2017, 17:50 (Ref:3722849)   #247
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That's a long time on the same chassis. Impressive that they both feel they can do that. Porsche is still on the original one too of course.
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