The Last 96 Hours of Ayrton Senna

[chunder]

I somehow doubt that Alonso has actually 'asked' the teams he drives for to put second rate drivers in the car.

But I do not think he is beyond some of the tactics emplotyed by Schuamcher in past. He certainly was very threatened by Hamilton at McLaren. And moved on sharpish, his main glitch so far in a career.

As for Senna, I have no doubt that he is certainly one of the quickest men to drive a F1 car. But sheer speed alone does not earn you world championships. Nous, mechanical sympathy, mental strength, emotional solidarity, physical ability, all these help too and more. And every world champion had some or more than Senna and some less.

he did amazing things in some cars, but Prost often matched him in the same car, as did Berger later on, not enough to beat him but often better over a lap and on very different strategies.

Prost had the mental beating of him and this pushed him to despair, hence his compassion and desire for Alain to be there again around Imola, (who can forget the story of him just sitting with Alain in a press conference and the patching up they both made weeks before). Alain could win without him there, but Ayrton needed Prost there, it seems.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by bella

needing a teammate to do your dirty work for you a la alonso.

Is it only me getting fed up of this?
Massa moved over last year because only Alonso had a realistic chance of the WDC. If it hadn't been for strategy, Ferrari would have been vindicated by their decision.
What Ferrari did was not the ridiculous crime that Ferrari/ Alonso haters were suggesting at the time, every team used team orders. Mclaren, Red Bull, Brawn, all of them since they were banned in 2002. Orders that have been used since day dot.
Mclaren used them in the 1st race in 1998, because Hakkinen was truly useless. Yet nothing was done then...

Alonso has fought past Massa a few times this season due to poorer starts but a few times last season and this, Alonso has been delayed by Massa and Massa has defended ridiculously hard because of his position in the team. Massa has defended to the point that other teams have passed the Ferrari duo.

Rant over, I just get annoyed that Alonso Ferrari gets mentioned at the slightest possibility.

Originally Posted by chunder

Prost had the mental beating of him

Hence Prost leaving his "home".
At Monza in 1989 he insinuated and got Balestre to enforce an apology from Mclaren and Honda to provide equal equipment for the rest of the season. A humiliating public announcement which both Honda and Ron Dennis took enormous personal offence at.
Prost gifting his trophy to the fans after his race, something against his contract and made Ron Dennis livid.
Prost also having a veto in place for his 1993 season at Williams that wouldn't allow Senna to join the team.
In case anyone doesn't know, he left Williams after they signed Senna for 1994, not because he wanted to retire.
So if thats mentally beating someone, I need to read up again on my psychology books...

[bella]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

Is it only me getting fed up of this?
....
Rant over, I just get annoyed that Alonso Ferrari gets mentioned at the slightest possibility.

probably yes it is

it's because it's the tip of the alonso "muppet" iceberg. it's the easiest way to sum up the kind of stuff that characterises his f1 career, which is a shame because he won the title quite nicely without it and that gets forgotten when he's a bit of a clown when he's not winning and/or alpha male.

[chunder]

Lol, Prost ousting Senna as a team-mate at Williams!

I don't call that anything other than very clever! If you have already been in the situation and lived with how it turned out, why on earth what would you want to go through it again. And Frank knoew what he was signing, and he also probably knew that Alain was only going to drive for a year before retiring! then Senna was his.

I suppose Senna vetoing Derek Warwick from a Lotus drive didn't enter your mind mind!

[strider]

This thread has now become silly and I shall take my leave. Spa can't come soon enough.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by strider

This thread has now become silly and I shall take my leave. Spa can't come soon enough.

Agreed.

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Frankly (and I have tried to stay out of this) Senna ranks right down there with Schumacher for wasted sporting talent. If he had half the character of Fangio or Moss he would have been special. His talent was unquestionable, but his sportsmanship was in the gutter.

Yes indeed that is a fact and the reason I was never a Senna fan. It is also the primary reason why I am no fan of Mr Hamilton because his sportsmanship is roughly the same.
Sportsmanship and regard for your fellow competitors (especially in a dangerous sport) is a box that must be ticked.

[GTRMagic]

Back to the movie for a second... was it only me who thought Mr Whitaker's announcement of the outcome of Mr Ratzenberger's accident at Imola was more than a bit detached and tepid?

Having listened to him speak as CEO of V8Supercar, its not the impression I get...

Might have to go watch it again to make sure

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by chunder

I suppose Senna vetoing Derek Warwick from a Lotus drive didn't enter your mind mind!

Funnily enough, I mentioned this on the Villeneuve thread.
As you no doubt know, Senna vetoing Warwick was for very different reasons to Prost.

[chavez]

Quite enjoyed the movie but any documentary that shows footage purporting to be something else (in this case the on-board footage supposedly from Monaco 1988) does not sit well with me.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by chavez

Quite enjoyed the movie but any documentary that shows footage purporting to be something else (in this case the on-board footage supposedly from Monaco 1988) does not sit well with me.

Good point, also some of the sound editing was very poor too, gear changes in completely the wrong places.
Am I right in thinking there was no on board footage from the 88 qualifying session?

[strider]

[Aysedasi]

I do wonder if the original subject matter of the thread having clearly now been exhausted if it continues to serve a purpose? The board is littered with threads on the issues that are now being discussed.

The Senna movie thread is here....

Senna Movie

[Bononi]

THREAD CLOSED