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Old 2 May 2008, 14:33 (Ref:2192590)   #1
FIRE
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Citroën in DTM from 2010?

Quote:
Citroen could join the DTM in 2010 if they go through with their threat to quit the World Rally Championship at the end of next season.

Citroen Sport team principal Olivier Quesnel admitted that the current promotional package of the WRC is not enough to keep the marque involved in the sport beyond 2009.

He believes the DTM currently offers manufacturers better value for money and a better platform on which to demonstrate their cars.

"I went to Hockenheim to look at the DTM race and the promotion of that series is on another planet compared to the WRC," said Quesnel.

"Citroen give me the budget and I have to use it in the best possible way. We have a new car, the C5, which is in the market with the Audi A5 and the Mercedes C-class, so we have to look at things."

...
Source: www.autosport.com

And besides this Citroen story there are of course the Lexus rumours.
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Old 2 May 2008, 14:51 (Ref:2192601)   #2
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JMeissner should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJMeissner should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Citroen info here also and some updates on the new DTM rules:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2236
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Old 2 May 2008, 15:13 (Ref:2192621)   #3
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medius should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmedius should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Hmm, the C5 is ''unmistakeably German'', after all.
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Old 2 May 2008, 15:43 (Ref:2192641)   #4
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Originally Posted by medius
Hmm, the C5 is ''unmistakeably German'', after all.
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Old 2 May 2008, 16:29 (Ref:2192673)   #5
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mattt should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmattt should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Fire


its the advert for the citroen c5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMQnPWjK5pE
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Old 2 May 2008, 16:36 (Ref:2192678)   #6
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Hazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridHazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridHazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Yeah, the German ad, (and the C5 obviously as they likely car) seem to jump to mind immediately with this story. Almost seems like they want to try and trick people into thinking they're german.
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Old 2 May 2008, 18:10 (Ref:2192751)   #7
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Originally Posted by mattt
Fire


its the advert for the citroen c5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMQnPWjK5pE


All German stereotypes in 1 TV ad.


With WRC switching to S2000+ in 2010 it would not surprise me Citroen will leave WRC and Peugeot will enter WRC again. At the moment Peugeot has already a S2000 car.


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Originally Posted by Touringcartimes.com
a common carbon fiber base
Carbon chassis or body?

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Originally Posted by Touringcartimes.com
hybrid engine technology
With DTM wanting to be "F1 with a roof" they probably use KERS.
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Old 2 May 2008, 18:28 (Ref:2192772)   #8
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duke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridduke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Why do the DTM want to change rules to another non-standard system. Can't they just go for the world formula?
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Old 2 May 2008, 19:02 (Ref:2192804)   #9
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But which world formula? S2000, V8 Supercars, TC2000, Speed World Challenge...

But I agree it would be great to have one set of technical rules world wide.
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Old 2 May 2008, 19:59 (Ref:2192837)   #10
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Dead-Eye should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDead-Eye should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by duke_toaster
Why do the DTM want to change rules to another non-standard system. Can't they just go for the world formula?
Because they never had standard rules. And because Germany already has an S2000 series.
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Old 3 May 2008, 09:11 (Ref:2193079)   #11
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Also, Merc and Audi who more or less run the show have little reason to develop S2000 spec cars since two-litre hatchbacks are way off their main market. The current DTM makes much more sense as the cars are bigger, more powerful and more sophisticated.

Still, it would be nice to have the DTM at least closer to other serie so that the cars could be used elsewhere and maybe cars from other serie could be used in DTM, to bring a bit of variety.
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Old 3 May 2008, 09:24 (Ref:2193088)   #12
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Originally Posted by Zamppa
Also, Merc and Audi who more or less run the show have little reason to develop S2000 spec cars

Audi S2000 cars have in the last 10 years in STCC finished in position
4-1-2-1-1-1-3-6-1-4
But in Sweden Audi is a much more popular brand, so it makes sence to VW-group to back Audi over Seat, which they tend to push in most of the rest of Europe.

Also, wasn't Merc involved in developing a car for DTC(?) this year? And STCC have for many years had privately developed Mercs, and if that guy would have gotten a resonably priced offer from Merc, then we would this year have seen a Diesel powered Merc in STCC.

In short, S2000 TCC is by far not completely outside of the interest field from either brand/manufacturer. They just sink too much money into DTM to make a major push eg for WTCC (and VW already is pushing SEAT there, stupid to push 2 brandnames in competition to each other).
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Old 3 May 2008, 12:09 (Ref:2193152)   #13
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Audi has developed S2000 cars for Sweden since 2003, but has done little work but mainly updates since the first constructions of the cars in 2003. Before that Kristoffersson Motorsport ran Super Touring Audi's from the days when they competed in BTCC, STW, etc.

Mercedes has not been involved officially in the development of the new C-Class in DTC.
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Old 3 May 2008, 15:44 (Ref:2193248)   #14
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Yeah, I know KMS is hoping that Audi will make a new S2000 for next season built on the just (February?) released A4. Supposedly it got put on hold for this season due to all Audi efforts being concentrated on making a the new DTM car. I guess by next year we will know if they are dropping TCC or not.

Though I could have sworn I read somewhere that Merc was involved in the DTC car, but it could easily be an unsubstantiated rumour
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Old 4 May 2008, 07:44 (Ref:2193586)   #15
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How much has Audi been involved in the A4 S2000 cars, apart from the homologation? Are those cars factory built and have they been run by Audi at any point?


Anyway, I still maintain that battling against your normal S2000 hatchbacks is not optimal marketing for Audi and certainly not for Merc. A series like DTM with cars based on bigger salloons and a few more manufacturers would be much better suited for their image.
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Old 4 May 2008, 08:15 (Ref:2193605)   #16
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Audi has been reasonably heavily involved with money as well as last year sending their ex DTM driver Frank Biela to drive 1 out of the 3 Audis. The reason KMS this year is only running 1 car instead of the normal 3 is that they lost the Audi money, which they hope to be getting back next year including a new car.

In STCC we have um, 1 Hatchback? Privater Seat. Possibly 4 if you count the 2 Volvos and 1 Peugeot as Hatchbacks, but I assume both those 2 are STCC homologated, not full S2000. And WTCC, if you don't count the Seats, no car currently is a hatchback. So your whole hatchback theory boils down to be only the Seats, which won't in any case be there if Audi is... they belong to the same company...
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Old 4 May 2008, 08:34 (Ref:2193614)   #17
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Guys, feel free to start a new thread about Audi and S2000
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Old 4 May 2008, 22:46 (Ref:2194045)   #18
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Getting back on topic! How serious is everyone taking Citroen? Could Citroen just simply be bluffing in order to get the WRC to give them more dispensations or rule changes?'

Would they actually leave the WRC and start from scratch on a DTM project?

How many cars does Citroen sell in Germany where most of the races are held? Don't get me wrong, I would love to see another manufacturer in the DTM, even if it is Citroen. I would prefer Lexus or Jaguar? Though the likelihood of that happening is next to nil. Thoes teaeser IS200 and X Type were definitely drool worthy and tempting!!
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Old 4 May 2008, 22:54 (Ref:2194053)   #19
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Originally Posted by kmchow
How many cars does Citroen sell in Germany where most of the races are held?
83500 in 2006, couldn't find anything newer. Audi sold 256000, Merc 342000 that year.

They aren't big, but they do exist. And they're really trying to get the new C5 noticed with advertising, so it might make sense. Especially with the proposed 2010 rules, which would make development cost basically nonexistant...especially if you go the Audi route and just buy an engine
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Old 4 May 2008, 23:40 (Ref:2194070)   #20
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Originally Posted by kmchow
Getting back on topic! How serious is everyone taking Citroen? Could Citroen just simply be bluffing in order to get the WRC to give them more dispensations or rule changes?'

Would they actually leave the WRC and start from scratch on a DTM project?
Well, as someone already mentioned, they have a Peogeut S2000 car already. So it's the same deal as with Seat/Audi/VW... you will in any case not see Citroen battle vs Peogeut (bad spending or marketing money to battle yourself), so if Peugeot is coming in, Citroen is leaving.
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Old 5 May 2008, 07:55 (Ref:2194208)   #21
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werner should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridwerner should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ahum, PSA haven't applied that way of thinking for quite some years....
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Old 5 May 2008, 08:06 (Ref:2194213)   #22
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Go_For_Pole should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGo_For_Pole should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by kmchow
Getting back on topic! How serious is everyone taking Citroen? Could Citroen just simply be bluffing in order to get the WRC to give them more dispensations or rule changes? Would they actually leave the WRC and start from scratch on a DTM project?
Why not? From a marketing point of view WRC is doing worse than pretty much any other major championship. It really is pityful the way WRC develops.

As for Citroen, they won everything in WRC and they can only lose with the new regulations. But the change in regulations has been decided so Citroen have no motive for bluffing.

It is also quite clear that in order for Citroen to develop as a company, they have to sell bigger cars hence the push for the C5. They are doing quite well in lower segments so selling big cars is the way forward for them.
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Old 5 May 2008, 08:52 (Ref:2194234)   #23
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Originally Posted by stedevil
so if Peugeot is coming in, Citroen is leaving.
And why they must enter DTM? Not WTCC?
They've never had V8 in their model line. And RWD.
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Old 5 May 2008, 08:53 (Ref:2194238)   #24
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Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole
As for Citroen, they won everything in WRC and they can only lose with the new regulations.
They will lose Loeb and it is great damage
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Old 5 May 2008, 08:59 (Ref:2194242)   #25
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Ahum, PSA haven't applied that way of thinking for quite some years....
Really? Because it's been a while since i saw the Peugeot brand name in both WRC and Dakar Type Rallying. Also what world class racing format do you see both brands in going head to head?
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