Advice needed

[Lutonlol]

I hope someone can help with the following problem.

My son is studying Motorsport engineering at college. A requirement of the course is that he takes part in Marshalling. However the college are now telling him that since he is epileptic they aren't able to get insurance for him. The doctors are telling us that he will grow out of his form of epilepsy in the next few years and he has about 10 fits a year so it is not really a major issue for either him or us.

Does anyone have any advice or experience of similar situations. He enjoys his course so much and now it appears he is going to be prevented from finishing because he can't marshal??

[ascarracinguk]

firstly its absolutely ludicrous that he wouldnt be able to complete the course because 'potentially' he couldnt marshal on medical grounds....does that mean the next adrian newey who could be in a wheel chair would fail....simply because he couldnt marshal!!!!....rediculous...id contact the uni and ask them about their equal rights and disability regs!....in terms of marshalling though, im sure ive marshaled with epileptic people before, along with diabetics etc. if you dont get an answer on here, or need a quicker one, go to the marshals.co.uk website, and im sure theres someone wiho you can contact on there!....

...in terms of the insurance aspect though, i dont know why the uni are worried, there are many guys and gals out there who are at uni and marshal BUT not through the uni....so if he signs up as a marshal through the bmmc or volenteers in motorsport, and not through the uni so they dont have to worry about insurance, but can show the university evidence that he has marshalled then im sure hed be ok!

dont worry either way....he will be fine, either he can marshal either track side or in pits/paddock, or id be contacting the dean of the uni asking about what the hell happened to their equal rights/disability/discrimination policy, as it isnt a theory based subject, and he isnt been given the chance to study because of the universities insurers rather than his mental capacity!

[Piglet]

Lutonlol, where is your/your son's nearest circuit? I'd suggest you earmark his local circuit and then arrange to have a discussion with the prominent organising club or circuit owner (depending where it is) about how to get your son marshalling.

I'm your you're equally keen to ensure that your son is kept safe so it does require a little bit of thought to ensure that there is as little risk to him and others as possible.

I don't think it's insurmountable, let us know where he'd be looking to marshal and I'm sure that there is someone on here who can help with contacts to try to make this happen.

As an aside and in addition to the post above, we have marshals who are wheelchair dependent who do a very good job so there would be no suggestion that this would preclude someone from marshalling.

Let us know where he's based and we can try to help, will he need transport?

[Lutonlol]

We live in Luton so anywhere around here is fine. Closest tracks are Silverstone and Brafield. As he is still 17 I was expecting to have to be involved until his 18th birthday anyway and so transport etc. won't be a problem.

This has come as a real bolt from the blue (he phoned me from college today to say his tutor had just told him!). I have asked him to get them to put everything in writing with clear explanation of exactly what the problem is. Once I have that then I can work out exactly how to fight it.

[deley]

It might also be worth getting in touch with the MSA as marshal's signed on to work at events held under MSA permits are covered by the MSA's insurance and I am sure they would be able to help clarify if there are any restrictions or how to work with the circumstances.

As has been said, on the face of it there should be no reason why he shouldn't be able to carry out any number of activities in the many marshalling functions undertaken at events - it is just a question of understanding the situation and working with it.

Good luck with getting it sorted.

Dave

[Piglet]

I'd have a chat with Penny Norris who runs the marshals team at Silverstone, http://www.silverstone.co.uk/about/s...marshals-team/

Explain the situation (she may well have seen this) and ask her advice. Talking to the MSA is also a good idea although I'd have a chat with Penny first.

Good luck

[ascarracinguk]

i think the main point is TELL HIM NOT TO WORRY!!!...either way something can be sorted out.....not something he needs to be worrying about in his exam period!

[HairyDJ]

I'm aware of marshals with epilepsy, but suspect the crucial question revolves around whether your son's episodes are waking or sleeping. It would also be helpful to know what triggers his current episodes and similarities trackside - flags waving close to his eye-line; extremes of hot or cold; stress / excitement; energetic activity. The more we know, the better we can assist with his dream career!

Get him to check out the finer details of his course requirements - how many days marshalling / any specific sort of event? The initial suggestion that I can come up with would be to look at marshalling Sprint meetings. These may not be so exciting as Circuit stuff, but there would be less risk to him, his fellow marshals & competitors. Also worth mentioning the college on here in case anybody has previous dealings with them?

In the interim, why not get stuck in yourself? If you can experience a few days on your own, then he will then benefit from somebody alongside with a little marshalling understanding as well as knowledge of his own condition. Speak to Penny and get on a taster day ASAP.

[Apple]

I haven't been a marshal long but I would tell your son not to worry
They are all very helpful and I am positive that this will be sorted.
And you never know your son may well enjoy it so much he will carry on being a marshal for a long time.

[Lutonlol]

Originally Posted by HairyDJ

I'm aware of marshals with epilepsy, but suspect the crucial question revolves around whether your son's episodes are waking or sleeping. It would also be helpful to know what triggers his current episodes and similarities trackside - flags waving close to his eye-line; extremes of hot or cold; stress / excitement; energetic activity. The more we know, the better we can assist with his dream career!

Get him to check out the finer details of his course requirements - how many days marshalling / any specific sort of event? The initial suggestion that I can come up with would be to look at marshalling Sprint meetings. These may not be so exciting as Circuit stuff, but there would be less risk to him, his fellow marshals & competitors. Also worth mentioning the college on here in case anybody has previous dealings with them?

In the interim, why not get stuck in yourself? If you can experience a few days on your own, then he will then benefit from somebody alongside with a little marshalling understanding as well as knowledge of his own condition. Speak to Penny and get on a taster day ASAP.

Thanks for the advice. I think the best idea is to talk to Penny. AM flying to Ireland in the morning (judging at a hip hop dance competition there) but willcall her when I get back on Monday and see just what needs to be done

[Stuart H]

As far as I'm aware theres no resctrictions when your sons is marshaling. How ever I'd advise the chief marshal so that there are fully aware about your son's conidition!

[RCMADD]

there are areas of marshalling that really would suit this chap.... paddock.. assembly area.. start line ect..

[HairyDJ]

I think that some of the supportive messages on this thread may be a little too enthusiastic. I do hope that some marshalling can be arranged for this lad, but those with a duty of care will need to consider matters a little more carefully.

Each of us at sign-on state that we are medically fit and safe to perform the required duties - hands up those who are going to read it for a change this weekend? Trackside (or pit lane) can be a very dangerous place - a fit leading to collapse on a live section of the circuit could put this lad at risk, plus those around him who might feel compelled to risk their lives to aid him.

As I said, I hope we can help to sort something, but head must rule over heart.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by HairyDJ

I think that some of the supportive messages on this thread may be a little too enthusiastic. I do hope that some marshalling can be arranged for this lad, but those with a duty of care will need to consider matters a little more carefully.

Each of us at sign-on state that we are medically fit and safe to perform the required duties - hands up those who are going to read it for a change this weekend? Trackside (or pit lane) can be a very dangerous place - a fit leading to collapse on a live section of the circuit could put this lad at risk, plus those around him who might feel compelled to risk their lives to aid him.

As I said, I hope we can help to sort something, but head must rule over heart.

+1

All areas of a circuit are dangerous, not just trackside, there are risks in pits, startline, assembly areas - they are different to being trackside but they are still real risks.

This needs a proper assessment of risk in conjunction with Lutonlol to ensure that the lad isn't exposed to unnecessary risk and neither are the people around him.

I don't doubt that Penny will do what she can to make this happen, if it is appropriate.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Piglet

This needs a proper assessment of risk in conjunction with Lutonlol to ensure that the lad isn't exposed to unnecessary risk and neither are the people around him.

I don't doubt that Penny will do what she can to make this happen, if it is appropriate.

yes 100% BUT on the flip side of things, if the lad CANT marshal.....then the college really needs to look at how the poor lad is meant to pass his course!!!!....surely you cant discriminate over someone who is technically and mentally capable of passing an engineering course....but just because the college insurers wont insure him he would fail!!!....sounds like discrimination to me....basically saying he cant pass cos we wont let him have a chance TO pass..think Lutonol needs to contact the college and put this point forward as well as contacting penny!

[Oscar114]

I have Diabetes and have never had a problem with marshalling.

The key is to ensure that the post chief, IO and your buddy knows and what to do if something happens.

I know epilepsy is slightly different but as long as he is taking his medication and he knows what triggers the fits (so you can avoid this) he should be able to marshal. These are the key requests insurers usually ask for myself.

Good Luck with the investigation.

[ascarracinguk]

i suppose the OTHER option.....which might be a good solution IF it does cause problems.....let him marshal with mom or dad!...out of anyone theyre the best to deal with a fit...i dont know how many sessions it requires to pass his course but surely its a possible solution and a good one risk management wise?

[Piglet]

Whoa whoa...chill out

It's not for us to say what the college should or shouldn't do, I don't doubt that the OP will deal with that as well - after his hip hop competition

We were asked to advise on marshalling and that's been done, none of us know the nature of the lad's epilepsy, most of us aren't medically trained and most of us aren't the person who will end up explaining their actions if there is a problem.

Penny is the best starting point for this and I'm sure that she will do what she can, possibly with the assistance of the MSA and the CMO to check that the OP's lad can marshal in an environment that is safe for him and others.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Piglet

We were asked to advise on marshalling and that's been done, none of us know the nature of the lad's epilepsy, most of us aren't medically trained and most of us aren't the person who will end up explaining their actions if there is a problem.

i realise that...jus throwin ideas out there incase she or he hasnt thought about them yet....

[JimW]

A number of points/approaches here.

To marshal you have to be able to sign the MSA declaration that you are "fit to do the job". (precise wording escapes me.)

If he can do that - no problem.

The requirement for any insurance, above the MSA provision is a matter for the college. If in doubt, and providing the above requirement can be met, that's their problem. Perhaps they should approach one of the specialist insurers used to dealing with motorsport (I hesitate to recommend one )

If marshalling in a low risk area cannot satisfy their requirements then their requirements are unreasonable. They cannot deny him the chance to qualify if his physical condition does not allow him to complete what can only be described as a peripheral requirement. Mention the Disability Discrimination Act in ever louder tones until the fuss reaches the right people at the college and a way round the problem will quickly be found.

For example ask them to specify what contribution to the final qualification the marshalling makes and how they could fail to make adequate provision for someone with a disability to satisfy the requirement.

Feel free to PM me if you want a further discussion.

Regards

Jim

[Stoowert]

All I can say is I'd have no problem if he turned up on my post. The lad has had to live with this condition so he's the best person to know his limitations. I think it must be human nature to micro-manage any situation. I trust him to know his own body!

"Does he take sugar?"

[Bodysnatcher]

Somebody has already put a great deal of thought into what people who suffer from seizures are allowed to do that puts themselves (and importantly) others at risk (or not).

If he's allowed to drive a car, I'd say allowed to work trackside - with DJ's proviso about possible triggers.

[Shelagh]

As I am currently marshalling "subject to limitations" (for different reasons) I would also recommend somewhere like Assembly as a busy but safer area to work in than trackside. I so enjoy doing it that my flags may well start gathering dust!

As an aside - what job does Dad do that he's been off to Ireland to judge a hip-hop competition? I am intrigued. Is he Simon Cowell in disguise?

[Woolley]

If you can get up to Shelsley Walsh (near Worcester) I'm more than happy to have him on post. Dangers are less than at a circuit with only one car at a time so there's no issue with traffic. I've got some experience with epilepsy as my best friend at school sufferred with it, and since we have Doctor and medics on my post should the unfortunate occur there's plenty of people who will know what to do.

Next meeting is 4/5th June, just drop me a PM at the end of the month if you're interested.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Woolley

If you can get up to Shelsley Walsh (near Worcester) I'm more than happy to have him on post. Dangers are less than at a circuit with only one car at a time so there's no issue with traffic. I've got some experience with epilepsy as my best friend at school sufferred with it, and since we have Doctor and medics on my post should the unfortunate occur there's plenty of people who will know what to do.

Next meeting is 4/5th June, just drop me a PM at the end of the month if you're interested.

Sorry Woolley, you probably haven't got Dr and the Medics on post on the 4th, they've got a gig - http://www.doctorandthemedics.com/gig_list.php