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Old 9 May 2006, 16:40 (Ref:1604390)   #1
acf8181
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acf8181 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
britcar 24hr costs

on behalf of a friend, who's interested in competing in the britcar 24hr.

does anyone know the kind of budget it requires (not to be up the front end, just to compete and have some fun)?

cheers
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Old 9 May 2006, 18:23 (Ref:1604467)   #2
R59
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R59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridR59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by acf8181
on behalf of a friend, who's interested in competing in the britcar 24hr.

does anyone know the kind of budget it requires (not to be up the front end, just to compete and have some fun)?

cheers
Does your friend have an idea what it costs to compete in a normal 2hr Britcar race? If so, multiply by at least a factor of 12. Better make it 15-20 to be sure.

It's the sort of figure that people would love to have to run three or four seasons of front running clubbie racing (or more!)

Rob.
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Old 10 May 2006, 06:56 (Ref:1604816)   #3
MMC Andy
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MMC Andy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

Half correct - we did the 24 Hours for the first time last year and whilst some of the costs can be multiplied up (tyres, fuel, catering etc), the entry fee is obviously not 12 times the norm - nor do you use 12 times the mechanical bits & pieces.

And whilst I accept your comments regarding the overall costs in relation to club racing - the cost per hour to run in the front half of the midfield (in a Britcar) is exceptionally good value. You are after all cramming two or three whole seasons into one day !!
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Old 10 May 2006, 07:18 (Ref:1604830)   #4
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kickstart should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I have not done this race, but I would guess that you would obviously need an engine and gearbox rebuild after the race, plus all the tyres, fuel, pads, discs etc.
Without entry fees I would guess that for something like a GT3 you would be looking at £1k per hour - hence £24k for the race, which if split between 4 drivers makes it £6k each. I remember seeing a 4th driver slot advertised for a 24 hour race and the team were looking for £8k so the above must be a reasonable guess.
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Old 10 May 2006, 07:47 (Ref:1604841)   #5
graeme
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graeme should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
A third of a drive in the 2CV 24 Hours cost me a fair bitr less than a grand
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Old 10 May 2006, 12:14 (Ref:1605041)   #6
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Tainan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I saw a drive advertised for 3k last year - but I later noticed the team didn't even make it through practice!
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Old 10 May 2006, 13:11 (Ref:1605089)   #7
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Startline Ed should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I seem to recall seeing in one of the Britcar programmes that the entry costs for last years were around £2000-£2500.
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Old 10 May 2006, 13:29 (Ref:1605093)   #8
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Madness!
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Old 10 May 2006, 13:36 (Ref:1605099)   #9
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R59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridR59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I did actually work out that my entry to the V8 supercars at Snetterton worked out within pence to the same cost per minute as the BARC-SE Track & Race Cars.

However the running cost of cars varies from cheap to extortionate, and that has to be a factor in the cost of running in the 24hrs.

Take a production S1 car, something like a Honda Integra, and it'll probably do the 24hrs, the whole season of other races, and shrug it's shoulders and say "so what".
Then go for something like Adam Sharpe's Falcon. The engine will (should) require a rebuild after the 24hrs, as that's the typical life for a V8 of that spec.

I forget the figures quoted once for running a Ferrari, in terms of cost per track hour, it scared me to death!

It's horses for courses. You get what you pay for.....

Another example - drive in the V8 Supercars at this weekend's event on the EERC website for circa £2K. That's for 1hr of race time, total of 1hr 50mins of track time with qualifying and warm-up, not sure if included the 2hrs available for testing on Friday.

The entry fee is irrelevant in this case, as it'll only be a small figure compared to the running costs (fuel/brakes/tyres/engine/transmission/etc..)

Rob.
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Old 10 May 2006, 13:46 (Ref:1605107)   #10
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R59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridR59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Why madness Al?

24hrs - that's 86400 track/minutes for the race, Entry fee of even £2500 works out at just under 3p/minute.

Good value.
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Old 10 May 2006, 14:40 (Ref:1605139)   #11
MMC Andy
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Rob, our Britcar test Friday is £300, so assume V8 would be the same.

Agree with your sentiments regarding the value of the 24 Hours - where else in the UK could a 1st season race team like ours race against the best around for the money / exposure involved ?!

We would love it to be 2CV money, but I can tell you standing on the grid last Septemebr surrounded by Mosler, GT3's, Marcos, BMW, Ferrari etc etc was quite exhilarating.

Also, our Marcos raced in Britcar all last season, did the 24 Hours, Silverstone last month, Snetterton this weekend - and still no engine rebuild !
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Old 10 May 2006, 16:44 (Ref:1605228)   #12
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archibold should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
As a rough guide based upon cars I'm familiar with (4 drivers sharing):
Civic Type-R £4-5k each
M3 £4-8K each (low end for Kumho type car, middle for front running Production S1 and the high end for a GTR/serious Britcar)
996 GT Cup ~£8k each

You can find drives for more or less, but with a few exceptions, you get what you pay for in terms of preparation and car.

Feel free to PM me if you want more info or contact James/Claire/John at EERC.
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Old 10 May 2006, 19:23 (Ref:1605326)   #13
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Why Madness? To pay that sort of money for the slog of a race like that. I would want someone to pay me :-) This price per minute thing cuts no ice with me to be honest.
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Old 10 May 2006, 21:01 (Ref:1605431)   #14
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R59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridR59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You're either into endurance racing, or you're not. And I guess that you're not Al.

Jemco Andy - poor ol' Marcos!! That engine must be crying for new ends/mains/rings by now. It'd go better with a freshen!!

Archbold - I could go with those figures - they make sense.

My ol' crate could do it, especially since you don't need dry-break refuelling for the race. The motor should last, everything else could last..... Not sure I'd want to sit in it for that long though....

Got me thinking....

Rob.
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Old 10 May 2006, 21:07 (Ref:1605435)   #15
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Rob; Youve got to cure a few bits first. You may have a chance in a 24 mins race round Brands; not 24 hours. Your oil bill would bankrupt ya!
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Old 10 May 2006, 21:08 (Ref:1605436)   #16
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Not sure I'd want to sit in it for that long though....
There you go you are agreeing with me now:-)
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Old 10 May 2006, 21:09 (Ref:1605439)   #17
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He would get an oily bum
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Old 10 May 2006, 21:23 (Ref:1605454)   #18
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R59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridR59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Oil budget? If I asked Pete to share, he'd bankrupt me on tyres!
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Old 10 May 2006, 21:28 (Ref:1605455)   #19
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No! Bankrupt me on Avons.....Lydden Saturday, going to ruin another set.......
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Old 11 May 2006, 07:14 (Ref:1605672)   #20
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topwelshman should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
[QUOTE=archibold]As a rough guide based upon cars I'm familiar with (4 drivers sharing):
Civic Type-R £4-5k each
M3 £4-8K each (low end for Kumho type car, middle for front running Production S1 and the high end for a GTR/serious Britcar)
996 GT Cup ~£8k each

You can find drives for more or less, but with a few exceptions, you get what you pay for in terms of preparation and car.

Pretty much spot on, we're asking 5k for our 3 spare seats in the E36 M3 and and includes tyres, fuel and testing but we are doing it at cost, if we weren't it'd be a bit more, our car is well beyong Kumho Spec and has already proved to be a winner so should be right at the top.

Roughly translates back to £740 / hour when you factor in qualifying and testing, which is what I was paying for a Kumho round anyway for 30 mins running, it's alot up front but looking at the bigger picture it's good value.
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Old 11 May 2006, 07:42 (Ref:1605692)   #21
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graeme should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm (at least partially) with Al on the cost per minute thing. Give me three 10 minute races rather than a 30 minute race any day (I ought to go and do Legends...). But I enjoy (at least in hindsight!) endurance racing too
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Old 11 May 2006, 22:47 (Ref:1606462)   #22
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R59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridR59 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What you're saying Graeme, is that you'd rather have a 20 minute race at the 24hrs rate (in terms of price per minute!!!).......

Thanks for that Dom, that concurs with my view (getting what you pay for)

Remember the 6 P's.
Perfect Preparation Prevents P Poor Performance.

In my world, swap 1 with 4 & 5.

Rob.
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Old 13 May 2006, 13:46 (Ref:1607885)   #23
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acf8181 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
ok, thanks for the useful replies from a few of you! much appreciated.

one other q....do you know of any teams renting out vw/audi's for the race?
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Old 15 May 2006, 09:42 (Ref:1610347)   #24
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Hi acf8181

Sorry I don't know of anyone with a vw or audi. There was an RSi Beetle running in Prod S1/Britcar on and off...I think it might have been Frick/Flatt (sorry don't know first names but think they have a Honda now anyway).

If you are interested and you can probably tell from my above post we have two spaces in our Civic Type-R (podium finisher with gentlemen drivers this year) and one seat left in our v rapid M3 (which won the first round this year at Silverstone).

PM me if you want details.

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