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Old 11 Apr 2011, 14:32 (Ref:2861923)   #26
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Originally Posted by NaBUru38 View Post
I don't think that sports car racing needs Joe Public. It's like golf, tennis and polo - it's a sport for the rich. You don't need air television coverage live in 200 countries. More focused public means some sponsors would be spending money only on their actual target. Yesterday there was a Mercedes AMG ad at the Monza Superstars race. You don't see that in F1 or MotoGP.

As AGD said, endurance racing is bound to be shown on specialist channels. That's not bad for this type of world championships.
Well it depends on what you want the ILMC and sportscars to be like. As it is now, or how it was in the 1980s?

I wasn't born til the mid-90s, so if you think I'm being ignorant, I'm not, I'm just going by what my Dad tells me (who was around at the time), and the Group C videos I was brought up on (Le Mans 1987 was far more interesting than Fireman Sam or Pingu ).

The whole momentum from Group C, I gather, came from how big it became. There'd be races at tracks like Mexico City with sell-out crowds, race reports would be right near the front in Autosport, and Le Mans results even found their way on to the back pages of newspapers. That world is long gone now, and it's a shame.

Times have changed and if the ACO wanted it all back, they could have it with decent promotion. I do understand the niche it currently holds, but what harm would it do to tap back in to the back of Joe Public's mind? I don't expect and maybe I don't even want popularity like Moto GP or F1, that's not necessary. But there are more people watching Indycars and the BTCC, cars with hand-dryers for engines, than there are the ILMC. I dread to think how many more.

An increase in popularity may mean that Porsche or Ferrari could justify a full-blown LMP1 effort, let's say. Surely that would make sportscars seem like more of a high-end, upper-class sport than DIESEL Audis and Pugeots which run the show now?
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Old 11 Apr 2011, 14:36 (Ref:2861928)   #27
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Originally Posted by NaBUru38 View Post

As AGD said, endurance racing is bound to be shown on specialist channels. That's not bad for this type of world championships.
Don't think the manufacturers and sponsors would agree with you on this.
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Old 11 Apr 2011, 17:49 (Ref:2862026)   #28
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Sports car racing needs more press coverage. A lot more. Having a few races live on Eurosport and Motors TV is poor. How is Joe Public meant to get in to the sport?

I'd say the ILMC, seen as its a world championship, is more likely to get something closer to the coverage it deserves. But its the ACO. It will still fall short.

You go on to Autosport or Dailymotion, and you know when the FIA GTs are on! And the quality of coverage on the streams are second to none; the best non-F1 coverage I've watched of a motor race. So why can't the ACO get together?

My point is this: the ILMC is a great idea. But it's not going to really take off and feel big until the ACO gets serious about promoting it. And I mean parts of races live on Sky or ESPN over here and highlights on National television - even if its a saturday morning. Sort that out and everything else WILL follow.

Win the race on the Sunday, and sell cars on the Monday, the old saying goes. Well you can't sell any cars on the Monday if nobody even heard there was a race on the Sunday.
In the Group C years TV coverage was minimal, when it started to play a larger role the FIA sacrificed sportscars to boost F1.

Ever since, Le Mans hasn't been part of a championship which was fine until the late '90's when manufacturers pulled-out, putting together grids became volatile and without a championship it was difficult to build momentum and a media profile. The LMS went a long way to building privateer fields but the ACO are running the ILMC in-house because each race needs the same effort and focus as Le Mans itself, no longer can a manufacturer commit tens of millions to race in one major event, Le Mans can only prosper if the sport as a whole has a higher media profile season long.

This is only year one, unlike the FIA or NASCAR there aren't split loyalties, sportcars are their sole focus.
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Old 11 Apr 2011, 19:06 (Ref:2862066)   #29
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This is only year one,
Actually, year two.
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Old 11 Apr 2011, 21:32 (Ref:2862133)   #30
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FIA have little influence outside of being a governing body, in the old days they also controlled commercial rights.
"World Championship" doesn't mean it has to be a FIA series but it's a special status and needs an auhorisation from FIA. Before you disagree, read ACO sporting regs Art. 2.1 a.
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Old 11 Apr 2011, 21:37 (Ref:2862135)   #31
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Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice View Post
Sports car racing needs more press coverage. A lot more. Having a few races live on Eurosport and Motors TV is poor. How is Joe Public meant to get in to the sport?

Win the race on the Sunday, and sell cars on the Monday, the old saying goes. Well you can't sell any cars on the Monday if nobody even heard there was a race on the Sunday.
Sports car racing actually gets decent press coverage these days, but it is in magazines and blogs moreso than TV. TV isn't everything, but it would be nice to have a decent TV or at least Internet streaming. The ACO does not seem to agree with that notion. Perhaps it is because they are unwilling to pay for airtime, because they are unwilling to go to 2nd or 3rd tier channels, or whatever. People can say what they want about the ALMS media package, but at least the ALMS makes an effort to get their product out in video form. It just seems that the ACO could not be bothered.

Also, I think "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" is a bunch of nonsense. I think a more apt saying would be "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday five years from now." Racing now isn't so much about selling cars directly as much as it is about building brand equity over the long term. Having said that, "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" probably is more likely to occur in sports car racing than F1 or NASCAR just given the nature of the supporters. Sports car racing fans are in general big time car guys and so they read the car blogs and magazines that cover sports car racing pretty well.

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Originally Posted by NaBUru38 View Post
As AGD said, endurance racing is bound to be shown on specialist channels. That's not bad for this type of world championships.
This is true for live, flag-to-flag coverage of endurance sports car racing. There is some hope that a short highlight package can get on mainstream TV as is the case with the ALMS, but even then the ALMS and their partners are paying for the airtime kind of like an infomercial for the Ronco Food Dehydrator.

I can't speak for Europe, but I don't see there being any chance of the ACO buying airtime on ABC, CBS, NBC, or one of the top tier ESPN networks in the United States in order to air a highlights package unless Porsche, Michelin, or someone wants to pay for it themselves. I don't see much hope for that at the moment given that Porsche does not even have a GTE-Pro car in the ILMC.

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Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice View Post
An increase in popularity may mean that Porsche or Ferrari could justify a full-blown LMP1 effort, let's say. Surely that would make sportscars seem like more of a high-end, upper-class sport than DIESEL Audis and Pugeots which run the show now?
Perhaps, but I'm not so sure if Porsche or Ferrari would be interested. For one thing, GTs are not viewed as being sideshow fillers as much as they used to be. That is certainly the case in America and probably even in Europe as well. Porsche and Ferrari are able to be at the pointy end of the GTE field for the most part by selling cars to teams and then supporting them rather than having a full blown factory effort as is the case with Audi and Peugeot's prototype teams. The former makes much more business sense than the latter. Now perhaps Porsche will go old school and try to sell prototypes instead of purely just keeping them for the factory team(s), but I don't know if there is enough demand for them like there is in GTE or if the "sell" ideology even works in prototypes anymore. HPD is trying to go the route of old Porsche. We'll see how it goes. So far the ACO is not being kind to HPD's LMP2 efforts.

One thing that could grab the attention of manufacturers is a legitimate green formula where things like Porsche's hybrid technology can go head-to-head with something like Toyota, Ford, or Peugeot's hybrid technology. Unfortunately, this will probably require some precise performance balancing that goes way beyond diesel-petrol equivalence in order to avoid making the OEMs mad. Also, would this "green formula" take place with prototypes or GTs? It seems that GT might be the answer given that some manufacturers like Porsche and Ford have high-end "green" sports cars on the drawing board or in existence already. Perhaps they can be equalized to prototypes in order to make a new GT1 type field, but who knows. Plus, I don't think such plans would be very privateer friendly unless the privateers are happy to be in GTE and LMP2 type classes.

A final question - just how good was Group C TV coverage back in the day? It basically got no coverage in the US on TV or in the car magazines that I can remember outside of Le Mans. Perhaps it was covered on some obscure C-band satellite channel or in some magazines that I did not get. I watch some Group C TV highlights on RacefansTV and the crowds at those races make current ALMS race crowds look like the Super Bowl, Rose Bowl, or World Cup. It's a good thing we had IMSA in the US or else sports car racing would have been pretty much dead in the US during the Group C days. I think the same paradigm would be true today with the ALMS and ILMC.
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Old 11 Apr 2011, 22:11 (Ref:2862153)   #32
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Originally Posted by deggis View Post
"World Championship" doesn't mean it has to be a FIA series but it's a special status and needs an auhorisation from FIA. Before you disagree, read ACO sporting regs Art. 2.1 a.
It needs FIA approval but that should be a given.

Group C was screwed over as the FIA not only controlled regs, forcing 3.5 F1 engines on the sport, via Bernie they also controlled commercial rights leading to increased entry fees, track charges, TV and video rights etc. An EU ruling forced the FIA to only be a governing body.
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Old 11 Apr 2011, 22:43 (Ref:2862163)   #33
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It needs FIA approval but that should be a given.
Really? For example right now? In my opinion, right now, it's pretty long way from even deserving it. And Ratel's series was just set up so that further complicates things. Unless it has collapsed by the day when ACO sends the application.

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leading to increased entry fees, track charges, TV and video rights etc.
Surely those things had nothing to do with the championship actually gaining a momentum... perhaps just not as much as FIA had hoped.
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Old 12 Apr 2011, 17:27 (Ref:2862505)   #34
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If a series meets the criteria it's given World Championship status with Todt saying an Endurance Championship is needed.

You look at the state WTCC and FIA GT are in and the ILMC would slot pretty comfortably behind mainstays F1 and WRC.
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Old 12 Apr 2011, 18:03 (Ref:2862526)   #35
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Back in Group C days there were only a few channels so live TV of long races was not practical. Now with hundreds of channels including specialist ones it is possible. To me having full live races on niche TV channels like Motors plus a highlights package on mainstream, preferable free to view, TV provides the best of both worlds especially if a little help can be given to the niche channels to get wider coverage in more markets.
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Old 12 Apr 2011, 18:13 (Ref:2862529)   #36
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Originally Posted by JAG
If a series meets the criteria it's given World Championship status with Todt saying an Endurance Championship is needed.

You look at the state WTCC and FIA GT are in and the ILMC would slot pretty comfortably behind mainstays F1 and WRC.
ILMC already meets the minimum criteria of three different continents. You really think FIA would just give a world championship status for one of their biggest arch enemies without any hesitation? If they say no, it means NO.
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Old 12 Apr 2011, 18:39 (Ref:2862540)   #37
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Your confusing what the FIA was when they owned commercial interests and today were they govern the sport but leave others to run series.

The ACO have said applying for World Championship status is being considered as entrants want it.
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Old 12 Apr 2011, 18:40 (Ref:2862541)   #38
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I would take that Porsche article with a pinch of salt.

Here is a statement from Matthias Muller from an interview printed in the latest official Porsche magazine Christophorus.

Is there already a concrete road map for
racing?
At the moment everything is still under
discussion. The important thing is that
we continue to promote our customer and
amateur racing and thus meet the needs of
our customers. In the process, Porsche can
always gain new knowledge to develop the
sports features of our vehicles. And we’ll
take top-level racing as it comes.
Manfred Jantke, former Porsche race director for north America, leaked during the Paul Ricard coverage at MotorsTV that Wiedeking and Porsche want to face Audi at Le Mans but with a different concept and that Porsche doesn't want to be stuck in GT forever. Add to that, that Porsche officials are already in talks with the ACO.
And there is still Ferdinand Piech, who created the 917, who too highly welcomes Porsche Prototypes. The question is, when and with which concept Porsche comes along.
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Old 12 Apr 2011, 20:28 (Ref:2862600)   #39
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with Todt saying an Endurance Championship is needed.
This I have missed. Link?
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Old 12 Apr 2011, 20:40 (Ref:2862604)   #40
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Not sure if this is what JAG was referring to, but here's what mr. Todt told last August...

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Originally Posted by Planet Le Mans
Earlier this year, the ACO announced the Intercontinental Cup which goes around the world. Is that a world championship in all but name and does that conflict with this championship and would you be happy to give them the world title if they ask?

“I think that we are very mean by distributing the FIA world championship event, at the moment we have the Formula One, WRC, GT1 and the Touring Cars. I think that each championship has the potential of development,” said Jean Todt. “Concerning other categories, the FIA could have some interest. And endurance could be an interesting direction, and over the next years we will see what is happening. You cannot avoid other organisers deciding to have their own international series, and it is happening in a lot of categories, in single seaters, in touring cars, GT endurance, and I will say that it is free competition. But to allow the FIA World Championship label, we will be very restrictive.”
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Old 12 Apr 2011, 20:42 (Ref:2862606)   #41
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In Autosport some time back, it was in regards to the ILMC applying.

Speed have a few good articles were the ACO, teams, drivers etc. have talked about a World Championship.
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Old 12 Apr 2011, 21:25 (Ref:2862640)   #42
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Originally Posted by Andy77 View Post
Manfred Jantke, former Porsche race director for north America, leaked during the Paul Ricard coverage at MotorsTV that Wiedeking and Porsche want to face Audi at Le Mans but with a different concept and that Porsche doesn't want to be stuck in GT forever. Add to that, that Porsche officials are already in talks with the ACO.
And there is still Ferdinand Piech, who created the 917, who too highly welcomes Porsche Prototypes. The question is, when and with which concept Porsche comes along.
Andy, Weideking was fired from Porsche a couple of years ago, it is now under the control of VW.
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Old 12 Apr 2011, 22:55 (Ref:2862673)   #43
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Thanks for that planetlemans.com quote.

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Speed have a few good articles were the ACO, teams, drivers etc. have talked about a World Championship.
If we are talking about same kind of comments, I'm afraid they have mentioned it only nominally. It only shows the teams and drivers would like it to happen.
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Old 13 Apr 2011, 06:21 (Ref:2862750)   #44
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Andy, Weideking was fired from Porsche a couple of years ago, it is now under the control of VW.
And therefore one of the reasons why Porsche wants to return with a prototype. Porsche absolutely hates it being stuck in VW's hands, in VW's control. This has a lot to do with shareholdings of the different family members (Porsche/Piech), be it on VW or Porsche side.
Also Porsche officials already are in negotiations with ACO officials about the details of a Porsche prototype return.

A typical German thing happens here if you want so. Porsche, and VW therefore, don't come out blurting "woohooo , we return to Le Mans with a prototype" to the public way before they have details of the return sorted but keep quiet until they have something in hands to show off.
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Old 13 Apr 2011, 06:49 (Ref:2862756)   #45
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Andy - I have heard that Porsche are in discussions with the ACO /FiA with regards to the 918 RSR, but nothing related to talks concerning a prototype entry.
Also -I'm not really convinced by all this. I am sure that Porsche might ..at some indefinite point in time...come back to prototype racing. I just don't believe it is in the near future. (say the next 2 -3 years). I hope I'm wrong.
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Old 13 Apr 2011, 07:00 (Ref:2862759)   #46
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Andy - I have heard that Porsche are in discussions with the ACO /FiA with regards to the 918 RSR, but nothing related to talks concerning a prototype entry.
Also -I'm not really convinced by all this. I am sure that Porsche might ..at some indefinite point in time...come back to prototype racing. I just don't believe it is in the near future. (say the next 2 -3 years). I hope I'm wrong.
As I said, during the Paul Ricard coverage it was rumoured in the German commentary that Porsche wants to face Audi with a different concept at Le Mans. I somehow doubt that we are talking about an Audi vs Porsche GT battle at La Sarthe. I somehow doubt too, that Porsche tries the gamble and waits until Audi R35 to finally meet at Le Mans. In my humble opinion the different concept will be a hybrid as Dr. Ferdinand Porsche has had some sort of energy recovery system developed way before outbreak of WW2 already but it kind of got forgotten about.
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Old 13 Apr 2011, 08:07 (Ref:2862777)   #47
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No - The face-off wont be a GT battle. Think of it this way: Porsche will race the GT3 RSR Hybrid until the end of this year. They plan (if successful in their negotiations) to race the 918RSR next year. It will most probably be (at least) a 2 year program so it is not likely that they would be ready for a full blown LMP program (with Hybrid) until about 2014 (or at very best late 2013) I don't dispute that they want to face Audi/Peugeot with a different concept, I just don't see it happening that soon.
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Old 13 Apr 2011, 11:29 (Ref:2862840)   #48
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A tweet I've just seen.

"EurosportUKTV Eurosport UK TV by Lemansrace

Pleased to announce Eurosport will broadcast the new Intercontinental Le Mans Cup, featuring Le Mans 24 Hours, for the next 3 seasons!..."
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Old 13 Apr 2011, 13:46 (Ref:2862894)   #49
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A tweet I've just seen.

"EurosportUKTV Eurosport UK TV by Lemansrace

Pleased to announce Eurosport will broadcast the new Intercontinental Le Mans Cup, featuring Le Mans 24 Hours, for the next 3 seasons!..."
Great (), so 15 minutes of coverage from each shorter race every 3 hours, Le Mans shuffled wildly around the two channels... oh, and in the event of no Web access, Carlton Kirby.
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Old 13 Apr 2011, 17:19 (Ref:2862968)   #50
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A multi-year deal is much better than the last minute programming we've become used to and the station is well established across much of Europe.

Eurosports 24hrs coverage is great and when they commit to a series like the IRC it's always top notch.
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