2016 Liqui Moly Bathurst 12 Hour: 4-7 February

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Not one person loudly pushing code 60 or other things as a panacea has paid any attention to the realities of provisioning and provided it, apparently armchair demands are enough. If you think the organisers want safety cars and are deliberately avoiding a better way, frankly you have no idea.

And could you please be so kind as to explain the realities of provisioning it - I think a number of people would be interested.

[wallie]

Am I missing something here....Q. Why is the new spec Audi allowed to race but all other new cars not allowed, considering these wernt available to late last year to teams ?

[KSM86]

interesting to note that the entry list has been removed from the 12 hour site.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by wallie

Am I missing something here....Q. Why is the new spec Audi allowed to race but all other new cars not allowed, considering these wernt available to late last year to teams ?

It raced last year... the others have yet to do so..

[rich07]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

It raced last year... the others have yet to do so..

The new Mercedes raced in VLN last year but I think the main thing stopping any of them coming down here is supply with quite a long list of people wanting one.

[Mixer]

So to those screaming for something to be done about the safety cars:

https://youtu.be/Qh2sWSVRrmo

I want to make the following clear:

1. I'm not against Code 60 or any other system that could reduce safety car interference with the race without compromising safety to competitors, officials or spectators, however it is not as simple as having because you think it is a good idea. I have been involved in administrating state-level motorsport events including lap-scoring & been responsible for calling yellow flags. I implicitly understand the split second decision making required, often before all facts are known, and equally understand just how easy it is to throw pot shots at someone in the aftermath, with the full luxury of a couple of replays and a lot of time to think...

2. I don't have specific knowledge of this system but I have sold and supported technology systems for motorsport, including V8Supercars, MotoGP, F1 and Macau GP.

3. Systems such as a system to automate a Code 60 would be a complicated platform and quite technical to operate, involving lots of different sensors, I'd imagine a fiber optic network, and some serious servers - it has to be failsafe, robust, and support an audit trail that will stand up to scrutiny. Logistically Bathurst is a complicated place to run such a system, with very long distances, spotty radio coverage, etc

4. It is highly likely that someone spent the time and money to develop such a system and provides it as a contractor to races that want it. I can imagine it is not a very large market and the costs to research and provide it would have been significant so this is likely not terribly cheap.

5. As is normal, manufacturer of said system appoints an exclusive APAC agent for it, who invests in kit, applies the Australia Tax, and sets their own pricing. Anybody here ever looked up the price of something like a power chip in Australia and found its 400% higher than overseas? I have seen million dollar figures bandied about for systems less complex than a Code60 system. Specifically, yes, in V8Supercars. No, this company is no longer providing those services to V8Supercars.

The above is only a plausible possibility, I would like to see less safety cars, but I think those asserting that the race management are deliberately running safety cars for entertainment's sake are way off the map.

[chavez]

Thanks for the excellent explanation.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Mixer

The above is only a plausible possibility, I would like to see less safety cars, but I think those asserting that the race management are deliberately running safety cars for entertainment's sake are way off the map.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2015/0...-12-hours.html

Originally Posted by James O'Brien

“From a racing purists point of view then yes it needs to be looked at, there were a lot.

“But I have to say from a race promoters view I’m entirely happy. I don’t mind that many, it makes for exciting racing on a restart, particularly on this circuit.

“Beyond that remember too that it isn’t in my domain to change those rules. It’s the regulatory body. But as I said before from the point of view of producing entertaining racing I wouldn’t in any case be putting them under any pressure to change even if I had that sort of influence.

[Mixer]

Well for one he is no longer around - but regardless this refutes the accusation that V8Supercar officials, being now involved in B12h, are deliberately holding back a likely improvement in safety car handling, for pure entertainment reasons.

If you all think that people who tear up hundreds of thousands of dollars in machinery would stand for safety cars that don't stand up to scrutiny, you've got rocks in your head.

[one five five]

Keep moving the goal posts Mixer

Originally Posted by Mixer

1. I'm not against Code 60 or any other system that could reduce safety car interference with the race without compromising safety to competitors, officials or spectators, however it is not as simple as having because you think it is a good idea. I have been involved in administrating state-level motorsport events including lap-scoring & been responsible for calling yellow flags. I implicitly understand the split second decision making required, often before all facts are known, and equally understand just how easy it is to throw pot shots at someone in the aftermath, with the full luxury of a couple of replays and a lot of time to think...

2. I don't have specific knowledge of this system but I have sold and supported technology systems for motorsport, including V8Supercars, MotoGP, F1 and Macau GP.

3. Systems such as a system to automate a Code 60 would be a complicated platform and quite technical to operate, involving lots of different sensors, I'd imagine a fiber optic network, and some serious servers - it has to be failsafe, robust, and support an audit trail that will stand up to scrutiny. Logistically Bathurst is a complicated place to run such a system, with very long distances, spotty radio coverage, etc

4. It is highly likely that someone spent the time and money to develop such a system and provides it as a contractor to races that want it. I can imagine it is not a very large market and the costs to research and provide it would have been significant so this is likely not terribly cheap.

5. As is normal, manufacturer of said system appoints an exclusive APAC agent for it, who invests in kit, applies the Australia Tax, and sets their own pricing. Anybody here ever looked up the price of something like a power chip in Australia and found its 400% higher than overseas? I have seen million dollar figures bandied about for systems less complex than a Code60 system. Specifically, yes, in V8Supercars. No, this company is no longer providing those services to V8Supercars.

The above is only a plausible possibility, I would like to see less safety cars, but I think those asserting that the race management are deliberately running safety cars for entertainment's sake are way off the map.

If the likes of the Crevantic Endurance Series can adopt Code 60 regulations, there is nothing stopping Australian motorsport from doing the same.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by one five five

If the likes of the Crevantic Endurance Series can adopt Code 60 regulations, there is nothing stopping Australian motorsport from doing the same.

Gotta love a statement from ignorance.

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by rich07

The new Mercedes raced in VLN last year but I think the main thing stopping any of them coming down here is supply with quite a long list of people wanting one.

I think the Audi was homologated at the start of the year, the Mercedes just ran a few races in preparation for its homologation this year, which is why it didn't run in any SRO events in 2015.

VLN are a bit more open to that, hence the Lexus was running there too.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by one five five

Keep moving the goal posts Mixer

If the likes of the Crevantic Endurance Series can adopt Code 60 regulations, there is nothing stopping Australian motorsport from doing the same.

Agreed.

Not ignorance Mixer - all it shows is a willingness to look past the challenges presented by Code 60. Crevantic obviously found an efficient and effective system - why not CAMS and the might of the new promoter who can apparently take this event into the 21st century?

Originally Posted by Mixer

Well for one he is no longer around - but regardless this refutes the accusation that V8Supercar officials, being now involved in B12h, are deliberately holding back a likely improvement in safety car handling, for pure entertainment reasons.

How does this refute this? All it suggests is that they arent alone.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

I think the Audi was homologated at the start of the year, the Mercedes just ran a few races in preparation for its homologation this year, which is why it didn't run in any SRO events in 2015.

VLN are a bit more open to that, hence the Lexus was running there too.

And apparently the Lexus wasn't running to FIA GT3 spec hence why it was up the pointy end. Hopefully we see it in 2017.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Mixer

So to those screaming for something to be done about the safety cars:

https://youtu.be/Qh2sWSVRrmo

I want to make the following clear:

1. I'm not against Code 60 or any other system that could reduce safety car interference with the race without compromising safety to competitors, officials or spectators, however it is not as simple as having because you think it is a good idea. I have been involved in administrating state-level motorsport events including lap-scoring & been responsible for calling yellow flags. I implicitly understand the split second decision making required, often before all facts are known, and equally understand just how easy it is to throw pot shots at someone in the aftermath, with the full luxury of a couple of replays and a lot of time to think...

2. I don't have specific knowledge of this system but I have sold and supported technology systems for motorsport, including V8Supercars, MotoGP, F1 and Macau GP.

3. Systems such as a system to automate a Code 60 would be a complicated platform and quite technical to operate, involving lots of different sensors, I'd imagine a fiber optic network, and some serious servers - it has to be failsafe, robust, and support an audit trail that will stand up to scrutiny. Logistically Bathurst is a complicated place to run such a system, with very long distances, spotty radio coverage, etc

4. It is highly likely that someone spent the time and money to develop such a system and provides it as a contractor to races that want it. I can imagine it is not a very large market and the costs to research and provide it would have been significant so this is likely not terribly cheap.

5. As is normal, manufacturer of said system appoints an exclusive APAC agent for it, who invests in kit, applies the Australia Tax, and sets their own pricing. Anybody here ever looked up the price of something like a power chip in Australia and found its 400% higher than overseas? I have seen million dollar figures bandied about for systems less complex than a Code60 system. Specifically, yes, in V8Supercars. No, this company is no longer providing those services to V8Supercars.

The above is only a plausible possibility, I would like to see less safety cars, but I think those asserting that the race management are deliberately running safety cars for entertainment's sake are way off the map.

Have you ever worked a Code 60 procedure?

You might like to know that the system was originally created and run (at still being run at Dubai and the rest of Creventic's 24H series in Europe) by the Dutch Amateur Racing Club (DNRT) at Zandvoort, The Netherlands. Not exactly the most technically advanced race track in the world, let alone a professional racing series of international fame. Surely, they didn't spend tons of money on the implication of the system - they hardly have a penny to spend to begin with...

In the meantime the MSA in the UK is adding Code 60 to their line of race neutralizing options and the Nurburgring 24H and now Le Mans 24H (and the rest of the WEC) have their slow zones procedures. Slowly but surely the traditional Safety Car procedure in European racing is losing ground - hopefully the rest of the international racing (Australia, Asia, N-A) scene won't need a century to follow...!

[rich07]

Updated entry list with more drivers added

http://bathurst12hour.com.au/news-entry-list

Entry list itself.

http://bathurst12hour.com.au/event-info/entry-list

Steve Owen and Luke Youlden join Scud in his Lambo. No Dave Russell?

[D.R.T.]

Nice to see some more drivers added.

Entry now sits at 40 - down 7 from December. Lost 4 from Class A, 1 from Class C and from Class I.


Also interestingly from the Bathurst 12 Hour press release was this:

"The race will be broadcast live around Australia on the Seven Network on February 5-7."

Most likely a typo but could Channel 7 drop in and pick up the Qualifying broadcast on Saturday afternoon?

[TCR]

Although numbers are down slightly on previous years, when you look at the variety of exotic machinery, the driving talent on display and of course the venue, it's easily the best motorsport event on the Australian calendar in my opinion.

I'm a little disappointed that there's no Porsches in Class A, as endurance racing doesn't quite seem the same without a Porsche at the pointy end somewhere, and I wish the GT4 Class was a bit better supported, but all in all it'll still be a great event.

Only 21 days to go!

[nafe!]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Have you ever worked a Code 60 procedure?

You might like to know that the system was originally created and run (at still being run at Dubai and the rest of Creventic's 24H series in Europe) by the Dutch Amateur Racing Club (DNRT) at Zandvoort, The Netherlands. Not exactly the most technically advanced race track in the world, let alone a professional racing series of international fame. Surely, they didn't spend tons of money on the implication of the system - they hardly have a penny to spend to begin with...

In the meantime the MSA in the UK is adding Code 60 to their line of race neutralizing options and the Nurburgring 24H and now Le Mans 24H (and the rest of the WEC) have their slow zones procedures. Slowly but surely the traditional Safety Car procedure in European racing is losing ground - hopefully the rest of the international racing (Australia, Asia, N-A) scene won't need a century to follow...!

I can see it coming common place for endurance racing but sadly some series such as v8supercars thrive on throwing a 'entertainment' safety car to spice up the races.

Pity to see a significant reduction in the size of the final field for the 12hr. Still its a very high quality field, would just have been nice to see some variety in the gt4 and invitational classes. Thank god for marc cars!

[jd yort]

Originally Posted by TCR

Only 21 days to go!

You end up deciding to come down again for it TCR or not?

[TCR]

Originally Posted by jd yort

You end up deciding to come down again for it TCR or not?

No, decided to give it a miss and watch from the comfort of my Media Room, with cold drinks, air con and a big ass projector screen. It's also only two weeks before I'm racing at the Wakefield 300.

Bit sad in a way after 4 straight years, but will wait and see how it all pans out with changes made to camping etc. You going back I assume?

[jd yort]

Originally Posted by TCR

No, decided to give it a miss and watch from the comfort of my Media Room, with cold drinks, air con and a big ass projector screen. It's also only two weeks before I'm racing at the Wakefield 300.

Bit sad in a way after 4 straight years, but will wait and see how it all pans out with changes made to camping etc. You going back I assume?

Ahh ok, yes I am going. With CT racing it is going to be a very busy weekend for me.
(Good luck at the 300)

[kingers]

Cannot really comment on the lack of class B entries. I guess money is always the issue, Anthony Gilbertson and the cow boy Crewell have withdrawn I know one was a funding issue.

I think Darcy (David Russell) left to join McMillans camp apparently which to me is absolutely crazy?? Scud doesn't do anything by halves with event prep and has put together a good program with an awesome crew. I was very lucky to be a part of the 2011 event and it is one of my fondest moments in motorsport.

Cheers

[TCR]

Originally Posted by jd yort

Ahh ok, yes I am going. With CT racing it is going to be a very busy weekend for me.
(Good luck at the 300)

Thanks mate. Fingers crossed all goes well for you and CT over the weekend.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by kingers

I think Darcy (David Russell) left to join McMillans camp apparently which to me is absolutely crazy?? Scud doesn't do anything by halves with event prep and has put together a good program with an awesome crew. I was very lucky to be a part of the 2011 event and it is one of my fondest moments in motorsport.



Cheers

I hope not. Seems like a backward step for Russell if that is indeed the case.