porsche 918 vs 997

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

First images of the future Porsche 961.

Images are "artist renderings" by magazine folk. So those are for entertainment value only and have most likely little basis on reality. And regarding the car, it is still just speculation. But maybe where there is smoke...

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Why not power the 961 with a twin turbo variant of the flat 6? Saves some weight, makes it able to have the engine lower for better weight distribution and would make for a very good race car should a 961 GT RSR rock up.

I am a big fan of the Mezger flat six, but I have to wonder if given a relatively clean sheet that Porsche would pick that engine as the basis for a new car (and race engine)? I don't know much about race engine design, but I am guessing that you can package a V8 better than a flat six, a newer V8 might be lighter, and you might be able to get the crank lower on the V8? Just look at what they did for the LMP2000/Carrera GT (V10) and the Spyder RS (V8). Also when Ruf recently built the all new V8 for the RGT-8 my first thought was "Porsche will probably do that soon"

Richard

[Japanese Samurai]

In Porsche, MR car cannot exceed the performance of the RR car.
This is an answer.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

First images of the future Porsche 961. The front look pretty similar to 918. The 961 seems to be longer than the 918.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/au..._revealed.html

I wouldn't get too carried away with those pictures. That is just Autoexpresse's version of what the car could look like.

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I remember reading that the Porsche 911 GT2/GTE (Aco Rules) used a mid-engined. The same I remember reading for the BMW M3 GT2/GTE used a front mid-engined. Is this true? Do the ACO Rules allow this modifications?

No - the GT2 was never a mid engined car. The only 911 that was mid-engined was the GT1.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Images are "artist renderings" by magazine folk. So those are for entertainment value only and have most likely little basis on reality. And regarding the car, it is still just speculation. But maybe where there is smoke...

Completely agree with you on the pictures.
There is quite a bit of smoke. Rumored time frame 2-3 years.

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I am a big fan of the Mezger flat six, but I have to wonder if given a relatively clean sheet that Porsche would pick that engine as the basis for a new car (and race engine)? I don't know much about race engine design, but I am guessing that you can package a V8 better than a flat six, a newer V8 might be lighter, and you might be able to get the crank lower on the V8? Just look at what they did for the LMP2000/Carrera GT (V10) and the Spyder RS (V8). Also when Ruf recently built the all new V8 for the RGT-8 my first thought was "Porsche will probably do that soon"

Richard

Mezger engine is a thing of the past. The GT3 RS 4.0 was the last production 911 to have the Mezger engine.

[arakis]

so is there a new Flat 6 racing engine in the works for the GT2/3 versions of the 991

[Spyderman]

No word on this yet, but it is assumed that a derivative of the MA1 will emerge.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

In Porsche, MR car cannot exceed the performance of the RR car.
This is an answer.

They do this for anything that is in, or near the same price point as the 911 (i.e. 914/6, Boxster, Cayman), but if the car is a level above, they don't. So the Carrera GT breaks this "rule" and the future 918 and hypothetical new car would as well. I think the real question is will Porsche retire the 911 for top level GT racing. Of course, they can fall back on the old trick of calling the new car a 911 GT1! But I doubt they will do that.

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Mezger engine is a thing of the past. The GT3 RS 4.0 was the last production 911 to have the Mezger engine.

Sorry, I was assuming (badly) that the poster who asked about the flat six was referring to the current motorsport engines (which I think are still based off the Mezger engine) and not the newer MA1 series engine.

Richard

[MitchZ06]

I meant any flat 6 they come up with. Not being a Porsche fan (thanks for ruining GT1 in the 90's you mugs) I've got NFI what they call their engines.

[Spyderman]

Deleted

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Sorry, I was assuming (badly) that the poster who asked about the flat six was referring to the current motorsport engines (which I think are still based off the Mezger engine) and not the newer MA1 series engine.

Richard

[arakis]

ok this is where I am confused, the best 911 is the gt2 RS witch is preatty much on level with the carrera gt on performance, if we can asume 991 gt2 rs will be even faster where exacly will the 961 go, since from the info available it doesent seem like the new 918 will be all that much faster then the carrera gt

[Spyderman]

The 961 is not obligated to be that much quicker than the GT2RS. However, it will be a very different car in every way imaginable. Furthermore, the GT2 RS is not a viable platform for a GTE program and because the competition is getting so stiff (what with all the waivers being "waved" about, carbon fiber chassis coming, etc), it seems prudent to have a mid-engined platform that will allow you to be competitive in the future.
The latest figures I read on the 918 suggest that it will be no slouch.

[arakis]

you missunderstud me, I wasnt refering to the racing versions but the road cars, I was just wondering where the 961 as a road car will fit, because when someone sayse between 911 and 918 that a preaty unclear way of stating it. Because a 911 goes from carrera to gt2 rs and the 991 rs will most likely be a little below the 818 witch doesent leave a lot of room performance wise for the 961.

BTW I am surre 918 will be a exceptionaly fast car, after all the Carrera GT was, but i suspect it wont be quicker then a carrare Gt by a large margin, ( a carrera GT on newer tires)

my oppinion is that once the BMW are gonne the waiver/Bop system will be back to its old cool self, I can dream cant I .
I personaly wanna see 991 race in GTE rather then 961, not because I am afraid what the 961 will do, but because I would miss 911

[Tim the Grey]

That article implies 300,000 ish euro price point.
No idea as to performance!

After all, GT3RS sells at 350K quite happily...

[Spyderman]

350K in what currency?
The MSRP for a GT3 RS 4.0 in the UK is GBP128,466 (incl VAT)
The same car has a MSRP of Eur 178,596 in Germany, and in the US the same car has a MSRP of $185,000.

[arakis]

I think he ment gt2 rs in dollars, but the price is 250k $ IIRC

[Spyderman]

Yes- GT2 RS has a MSRP of $245,000 in the US.

[JAG]

If the 961 is going to be a production reality, mass produced, and a direct rival for the 458 and MP4, the car needs a motorsport pedigree.

The 911 already has that pedigree and can continue in Cup series.

[Tim the Grey]

All I know is the Bentley interview (in this weeks Autocar) I posted elsewhere quotes 350K for a GT3 Porker...
Seeing as I have neither 250 OR 350K, I merely took that as a real number.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

All I know is the Bentley interview (in this weeks Autocar) I posted elsewhere quotes 350K for a GT3 Porker...
Seeing as I have neither 250 OR 350K, I merely took that as a real number.

the only gt3 porker I know that comes close to that figgure is the race car GT3 RSR

[Spyderman]

Me too. Maybe that is what was meant in the interview.

The other possibilities are that they were referring to prices in countries with heavy taxation on imported luxury cars, or they were quoting in Zimbabwean dollars.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by JAG

If the 961 is going to be a production reality, mass produced, and a direct rival for the 458 and MP4, the car needs a motorsport pedigree.

The 911 already has that pedigree and can continue in Cup series.

You may be onto something: I wouldn't be surprised if the 991 serves as the product basis for the various CUP series (the bulk of Porsche motorsport unit sales and revenue), and possibly Grand-Am and GT3, whilst the 961 could be the product for GTE.
At this point in time it is all speculation, but it will all be revealed in the fullness of time.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I wouldn't be surprised if the 991 serves as the product basis for the various CUP series (the bulk of Porsche motorsport unit sales and revenue), and possibly Grand-Am and GT3, whilst the 961 could be the product for GTE.
At this point in time it is all speculation, but it will all be revealed in the fullness of time.

I had a similar thought in the Porsche vs. Ferrari thread earlier this month. Something new for top level GT and the 911 for lower level GT racing.

On a related note, I haven't tried to chase down where the model/project number "961" came from (as being tied to a new car). Is it total speculation by the press, or leaked info from Porsche? If an unofficial leak from Porsche (to create buzz), I wonder if the selection of "961" was a purposefully nod to the future direction of the car? With the 961 (of old) being the GT racing version of the 959 and the 959 being at that time a new "halo" car slotted above the 911.

And, while we are speculating, I don't think the car will be called the "961".

Richard

[Spyderman]

Agreed- Speculation by the press.