Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Clubmans Rallycross Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Other Motorsports > Rallying & Rallycross

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 28 Feb 2024, 22:32 (Ref:4198760)   #1
cg7aa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
London
Posts: 1,272
cg7aa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
World Rally Championship 2025 And Beyond

Big changes are coming

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hybri...lation-change/
cg7aa is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Feb 2024, 10:33 (Ref:4198815)   #2
BertMk2
Race Official
Veteran
 
BertMk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Nr Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 10,279
BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!
If I'm reading things correctly:

2025

Rally 1
No hybrid
Smaller turbo restrictor
Reduced aero

Rally 2+
Bigger restrictor
Bigger exhaust
Optional paddle shift
More aero

This will bring the performance of both categories closer together (Rally 1 slowed and Rally 2+ wil be faster than Rally 2).

For 2026

Rally 1 cars to use a common safety shell.
Bodywork from B-Class, C-Class, Compact SUV or 'Concept Car'.
Performance across cars subject to BoP (via centre of gravity and aero).
Power capped at 330bhp.
Cars cost capped at 400K Euros.
Engine and transmission from Rally 2 cars.

Beyond 2026

Investigation into electric cars using the common Rally 1 safety cell.

Other

There will be changes to the format of events - organisers will have more flexibilty around timetables. Mandated Sunday afternoon Powerstage remains. Events will be a mix of sprint and endurance - total mileage across a season remains unchanged.

Limits on the number of team personnel, local providers to be used for structures in the service areas (so no more manufacturer palaces)

Thoughts

The 2025 changes to Rally1 make sense, the Hybrid has been problematic and adds weight, getting rid of that makes the cars simpler (and cheaper surely?). Rally 2+ I'm not sure about - the question here is how many manufacturers will develop Rally 2+ cars and how many people will run them? Is Rally 2+ going to be a class that sees uptake in national championships? How much more will a Rally 2+ car cost compared with a Rally 2 car?

The use of a common safety cell from 2026 is interesting - the manufacturers will no longer have control of the chassis, will this put them off? The range of allowable body shapes to drape over the cell makes sense - we've already seen M-Sport using the Puma and unfortunately more manufacturers are going down the SUV route with their road ranges so that makes sense. The most interesting point here is the 'Concept Car' part - what is the definition of a concept car here? Does this mean that the Rally 1 car can have absolutely no resembalance to a production vehicle? Reusing the powerplants and transmissions from Rally 2 cars makes the leap from Rally 2 to Rally 1 less expensive for manufacturers - that looks like a good decision.

Electric cars - these were always going to appear on the roadmap somewhere along the line. Again the use of the common saftey cell removes some of the cost of entry - presumably the manufacturers would have the same range of body options as Rally1 and use their own batteries/powertrains?

Changes to the service area also seem sensible - reduce the amount of stuff and people being shipped around. Less cost and reduced carbon footprint.

I don't mind events running to different timetables - that flexibility is fine. Not sure I'm keen on the idea of 'sprint' events - the events are pretty short as it is, if anything I'd be more in favour of longer events, even if that pushes up overall mileage for the season.
BertMk2 is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Feb 2024, 11:25 (Ref:4198875)   #3
cg7aa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
London
Posts: 1,272
cg7aa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertMk2 View Post
If I'm reading things correctly:

2025

Rally 1
No hybrid
Smaller turbo restrictor
Reduced aero

Rally 2+
Bigger restrictor
Bigger exhaust
Optional paddle shift
More aero

This will bring the performance of both categories closer together (Rally 1 slowed and Rally 2+ wil be faster than Rally 2).

For 2026

Rally 1 cars to use a common safety shell.
Bodywork from B-Class, C-Class, Compact SUV or 'Concept Car'.
Performance across cars subject to BoP (via centre of gravity and aero).
Power capped at 330bhp.
Cars cost capped at 400K Euros.
Engine and transmission from Rally 2 cars.

Beyond 2026

Investigation into electric cars using the common Rally 1 safety cell.

Other

There will be changes to the format of events - organisers will have more flexibilty around timetables. Mandated Sunday afternoon Powerstage remains. Events will be a mix of sprint and endurance - total mileage across a season remains unchanged.

Limits on the number of team personnel, local providers to be used for structures in the service areas (so no more manufacturer palaces)

.
Excellent summary of the current proposals.
cg7aa is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Feb 2024, 12:19 (Ref:4198880)   #4
justracing
Veteran
 
justracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
United Kingdom
West Sussex
Posts: 2,452
justracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridjustracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg7aa View Post
Excellent summary of the current proposals.
Second that, very good summary Bert. The big question surely is whether not these changes attract more manufacturers? The ongoing pitiful top level entry cannot be maintained, I'm surprised that any major sponsors are at all interested.
justracing is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Feb 2024, 14:17 (Ref:4198897)   #5
TWRv12
Veteran
 
TWRv12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,982
TWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by justracing View Post
Second that, very good summary Bert. The big question surely is whether not these changes attract more manufacturers? The ongoing pitiful top level entry cannot be maintained, I'm surprised that any major sponsors are at all interested.

There have been rumours Lancia would return if hybrid was junked.


Next step would be for R2 and maybe R3 to be based on same chassis.


Works teams need to be limited to two cars
TWRv12 is offline  
__________________
Cromley: "With the margin Gareth has, he doesn't need to play for sheep stations"
Quote
Old 29 Feb 2024, 15:27 (Ref:4198907)   #6
BertMk2
Race Official
Veteran
 
BertMk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Nr Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 10,279
BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by justracing View Post
The big question surely is whether not these changes attract more manufacturers? The ongoing pitiful top level entry cannot be maintained, I'm surprised that any major sponsors are at all interested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWRv12 View Post
There have been rumours Lancia would return if hybrid was junked.

Next step would be for R2 and maybe R3 to be based on same chassis.
I think making the Rally1 cars use engines and transmissions from the Rally 2 cars is a good move - that removes cost a from the development. Add in the cost cap and BoP and in theory it makes the jump from Rally 2 to Rally 1 much less significant in terms of cost for a manufacturer. So those manufacturers with Rally 2 cars could be tempted to step up. Lancia is interesting - obviously they have huge rally history but currently they barely register, how many models do they even make?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TWRv12 View Post
Works teams need to be limited to two cars
I don't think that's an option until they've got more manufacturers. Or at least until there are independent teams running Rally 1 cars - at the moment we need all the Rally 1 entries we can get.
BertMk2 is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Mar 2024, 18:35 (Ref:4199192)   #7
flatlandsman
Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Ireland
Daventry
Posts: 185
flatlandsman should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Mistake
flatlandsman is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Mar 2024, 17:32 (Ref:4199498)   #8
cg7aa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
London
Posts: 1,272
cg7aa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by flatlandsman View Post
Mistake
Time will tell but something drastic needed doing if the WRC is to be sustainable in the long term. Neither Hyundai or Toyota will be around in the WRC forever; while they are to be commended for their commitment to date, manufacturers come and go and had any one of them decided to do something else, the championship will have died a years ago. Yes, we'll miss the current crop of cars and some will kick and scream in the short term and say it's the end of the world but they'll adapt in time. I wasn't old enough to know how fans felt when Group B got dropped but I daresay the reaction might have been the same: 'they've killed it, it will never be the same, I won't watch rally ever again etc etc'.

What's the alternative? I was more radical in my thinking a year or so back when I thought 'ok, make WRC2 the lead class, it won't go down well but it may it a viable in the longer run'
cg7aa is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Mar 2024, 21:16 (Ref:4199610)   #9
flatlandsman
Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Ireland
Daventry
Posts: 185
flatlandsman should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sorry guys I typed a reply but it was rallycros, not WRC hence the word.

To be honest I do not have much time for WRC anymore, I agree with some bits of the changes but not much
flatlandsman is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Mar 2024, 12:23 (Ref:4199711)   #10
ArnageWRC
Racer
 
ArnageWRC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
UK-ROI
Nord Ouest Ingleterre
Posts: 391
ArnageWRC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
As ever with rallying, too many people concentrate on the cars.......

It doesn't matter what cars are used if the events & promotion don't change/evolve......Over 95% of live coverage behind a paywall needs changing....

Thankfully, it seems as though there may be some changes in that direction (at long last). But I wish they'd drop their insistence on a Sunday Power Stage finish. Some events may be better suited by a Saturday eve/night finish.....
ArnageWRC is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Mar 2024, 18:04 (Ref:4200117)   #11
FIRE
Race Official
Veteran
 
FIRE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 18,739
FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!FIRE is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArnageWRC View Post
As ever with rallying, too many people concentrate on the cars.......

It doesn't matter what cars are used if the events & promotion don't change/evolve......Over 95% of live coverage behind a paywall needs changing....

Thankfully, it seems as though there may be some changes in that direction (at long last). But I wish they'd drop their insistence on a Sunday Power Stage finish. Some events may be better suited by a Saturday eve/night finish.....
Totally agree.
FIRE is offline  
Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
F1 world champions 2016-2025 Formulahistory Formula One 14 28 Oct 2015 17:56
V8 Supercar Championship Series goes Global and Beyond RaceTime Australasian Touring Cars. 21 5 Apr 2004 08:09


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.