National Championship

Amaroo Park · 15 Jan 2002, 04:24 (Ref:198882)

Why don't CAMS and AVESCO race at every curcuit there is in this country that is to a resonable standard for the Championship. Lets look at how many curcuits other than what they race at now they COULD go to

1. Symonns Plains
2. Baskerville
3. Darlington Park
4. Calder Park and Thunderdome
5. Lakeside (Maybe Avesco could buy it)
6. Adelaide International
7. Mallala
8. Wakefield Park

And a couple out of left feild

1. Catalina Park
2. Warwick Farm
3. Fairburn Park

These are all I can think of but maybe the money spent by governments and the like on these bloody street curcuits could be spent on these permanent tracks to benift the sport in general. So maybe some one will bring it up with Ita Buttrose son.

What do you think?

RaceTime · 15 Jan 2002, 04:37 (Ref:198883)

Quote:

Originally posted by colinbond
Why don't CAMS and AVESCO race at every curcuit there is in this country that is to a resonable standard for the Championship. Lets look at how many curcuits other than what they race at now they COULD go to

1. Symonns Plains
2. Baskerville
3. Darlington Park
4. Calder Park and Thunderdome
5. Lakeside (Maybe Avesco could buy it)
6. Adelaide International
7. Mallala
8. Wakefield Park

And a couple out of left feild

1. Catalina Park
2. Warwick Farm
3. Fairburn Park

OK - first - Darlington Park doesn't have and, in all likelihood, won't ever have a CAMS or FIA track licence.

Symmons Plains - the owners don't want to spend the money on it.

Baskerville too small (physically).

Thunderdome is not suited to V8 racing in anyway - speeds too high for the level of safety and survivability the V8 cars are built to.

Adelaide International - unlikely to be used again (although the power tour is considering it).

Mallala and Wakefield - well Mallala ruled out because of the Adelaide Parklands contract - but they already have the Konica's, as does Wakefield Park.

And the other 3 - well simply put - they just don't exist. Warwick Farm certainly no longer exists as a car race track; Catalina Park is way way too small and Fairburn park - where is that?

Amaroo Park · 15 Jan 2002, 06:18 (Ref:198893)

I agree with what you are saying the point I am trying to make is there are a lot of options other than street curcuits and every state could have a round. Also I have seen pictures of V8 supercars racing around Catalina the week after Bathurst in 1994. Fairburn, I think it is still called that is down in Canberra. The saftey concerns with running V8,s at the Thunderdome would be no greater than Nascars surely.

RaceTime · 15 Jan 2002, 06:26 (Ref:198894)

The NASCAR's are specifically built for super speedway racing - the cars currently being run on 'road' courses would have to be modified heavily to again race on the 'Dome - not just suspension either.

Remember that ATCC cars only ever raced twice on the combined road and dome circuit - after that it was deemed too dangerous.

Amaroo Park · 15 Jan 2002, 09:06 (Ref:198917)

I thought there was only one race using the combined curcuits. The 1987 WTCC round the week after Bathurst?

RaceTime · 15 Jan 2002, 09:20 (Ref:198922)

No - there was one there a monthe or two before - two driver affair - Larry Perkins won it from memory by leaving his driver change until the very last lap.

South Pacific 300 or something similar was the name of it.

racer69 · 16 Jan 2002, 01:36 (Ref:199325)

Yep, it was a 70 lap race of the combined road course/thunderdome layout. Can't remember the sponser, the '86 enduro on the road course was called the sun south pacific 300. Perkins was with Bill O'Brian and led until changing to Bill with one lap to go. O'Brian led onto the dome but the Shiel/Fury Skyline overtook him and won the race. Pity it was only used twice, i liked it.

All those tracks certainly deserve a go, but AVESCO just aren't interested in permanent circuits, PROCAR and PowerTour would be better targets, and would be more willing.

knackaneal · 20 Jan 2002, 04:46 (Ref:201571)

Quote:

Originally posted by RaceTime

Remember that ATCC cars only ever raced twice on the combined road and Thunderdome circuit - after that it was deemed too dangerous.

At home I have a "pot plant holder" which is a tyre case changed off Warren Cullen's Commodore during the WTCC Race a week after Bathurst 1987.

Talk about safety issues

!!!

That SICK SLICK has holes in it you can put your hand through!!!!!
But while it was on the car it behaved itself somehow, the driver certainly was unaware of any problem, and the tyre was only changed as part a routine pit-stop

True story

racer69 · 21 Jan 2002, 00:11 (Ref:201931)

I really think it's a pity that layout isn't used. I can't see how it is different from the Rovals in America, at Daytona the oval part of the road course is almost the whole track, save for a chicane near turn 3. If a temporary chicane had to be put in to make it safer, then fair enough. I don't think a full on thunderdome race would be all that good, we have enough yellows now, imagine how many we would have then.

Hopefully the PowerTour do end up going to AIR, that is a great track. Anyone know the chances of it happening. If they go there hopefully the races which have a standing start will use the 3-2-3 starting configuration it and the old Surfers Paradise used to use.

RaceTime · 21 Jan 2002, 00:19 (Ref:201933)

Quote:

Originally posted by racer69
I really think it's a pity that layout isn't used. I can't see how it is different from the Rovals in America, at Daytona the oval part of the road course is almost the whole track, save for a chicane near turn 3. If a temporary chicane had to be put in to make it safer, then fair enough. I don't think a full on thunderdome race would be all that good, we have enough yellows now, imagine how many we would have then.

Hopefully the PowerTour do end up going to AIR, that is a great track. Anyone know the chances of it happening. If they go there hopefully the races which have a standing start will use the 3-2-3 starting configuration it and the old Surfers Paradise used to use.

With the Thunderdome, you have to remember how it has to be used - the driver has to be on the inside of the track ie away from the wall. Having said that, it is extremely unlikely the combination of the Calder road circuit and Thgunderdome will ever be used together again. It is simply too dangerous for CAMS race cars - they are not built for that type of track.

Any moisture on the Thunderdome surface would also make it lethal - this is the reason NASCAR/AUSCAR always stopped at the first sniff of rain.

AIR - will never use a 3-2-3 grid - in fact no Australian track will use that format again - CAMS and the FIA do not like using it for a start, they consider it too dangerous.

And because of the idiotic mentality of a few in CAMS you will also see a push on for the current V8 SoupCar grid format - two straight lines just waiting for someone to run up the arse of the stalled car in front of them - at least with a staggered grid you had a reasonable chance of not hitting a stalled car.

Morris 1100 · 22 Jan 2002, 06:53 (Ref:202576)

Quote:

Originally posted by RaceTime

And because of the idiotic mentality of a few in CAMS you will also see a push on for the current V8 SoupCar grid format - two straight lines just waiting for someone to run up the arse of the stalled car in front of them - at least with a staggered grid you had a reasonable chance of not hitting a stalled car.

I was driving the FIV at Eastern Creek after they changed the grid to two straight lines and witnessed a crash that looked a lot like the Paul Morris Oran Park crash. In the under 2 litre Improved production race a Peugeot broke a driveshaft on the line and a car off the back of the grid hit him up the date throwing the Peugeot into the air spinning and throwing all the fuel out as it spun, the fuel ignited as the car spun but luckily burned most of the fuel before coming to rest. The car was stuffed! the rear wheel was up against the drivers seat and some of the alluminum roll cage had broken off at the floor and the T joints (risking the driver to more injury if the car had rolled or had another impact) I was sitting well behind the field and could not see the stopped car untill just before the impact and I blame that on the straight rows of cars and the high impact I feel was due to the increased distance between the cars. These changes were bought in because of Craig Lowndes crash at Calder and were in my opinion the reason for Paul Morris and Mark Larkham coming together so hard. At Oran Park with a full field the last cars on the grid are around the corner and the FIV is near the dogleg! and the backmarkers have to start uphill and can't see the lights

now if one of the backmarkers break a gearbox and the car is locked up and can't move and Tim can't see it from the tower look out!

racer69 · 22 Jan 2002, 07:08 (Ref:202579)

I agree fully. I have never understood why the two straight lines were started in the first place, sure it can stop accidents like Lowdnes' at Calder in 99, but it also increases the likelihood of the Morris/Larkham crash, and the one Morris 1100 mentioned. The cars are now spread out to far. Maybe a staggered grid may work better, but they would still all be spread over the same distance. bring back the grid they still use at Bathurst.

RaceTime · 22 Jan 2002, 07:45 (Ref:202587)

Why were the two straight lines introduced?

Simple - because one idiotic ******* in CAMS wants the F1 way of doing thing introduced in Australia right across the board - whether it is justified or not!

The sooner this person wakes up to itself (I refuse to refer to it as a 'he' as that implies it has some intelligence), the better motor sport will be.

Morris 1100 · 22 Jan 2002, 11:41 (Ref:202639)

What would he know about grids he started his last F1 race from the pitlane...............after not qualifying.
Yes I mean that he started 27 in a 26 car race! he was listed in the results as "Disqualified-Started Unofficially"
So he is the man who knows all ......................................yeah fukk all

elephino · 22 Jan 2002, 11:47 (Ref:202640)

Actually, the two straight lines thing won't stop the Calder 99 crash, just reduce its likelihood a touch (not that much really as you only need two cars to make it happen). In fact, look at the way McConville's car reacted at Sandown to see what I mean.

Morris/Larkham crash...well the speed would have been slightly lower with the 2+2 grid but it could still have happened.

This photo was taken at around about the distance Larkham started, which shows how far away the back of the grid is compared to the front.

http://www.conrod.com.au/features/2000/shaw1/2.jpg

RaceTime · 22 Jan 2002, 11:55 (Ref:202642)

It doesn't matter whether it is a straight line grid or a 2x2 grid - the speeds will be the same.

What will be different, however, is the amount of rooom a driver has in which to react to a car stalled in front of them.

With the current idiocy, every car has, what? 2-3 car lengths maximum inwhich to decide to change direction if the car in front of them has stalled.

With a staggered grid, though, that distance is doubled.

Now, I don't know about everyone else, but I seem to recall being pounded with advertising in the 70's and 80's about allowing more space between yourself and the car in front to allow for a little thing called reaction time.

Has anyone done any stats on the nn8umber of start line crashes over the past, say, 10 years? Comparing incidents under both type of grids?

I would hesitate a guess and say they are higher now (although King **** would probably try and tell us that is because the cars are more powerful...)

Morris 1100 · 22 Jan 2002, 12:45 (Ref:202655)

I agree with Racetime. When you have started off the back of the grid as many times as I have (a couple of hundred in the FIV) you learn to look for trouble like stalled cars and first corner crashes. I have noticed an increase in incidents off the start since the two straight lines were introduced, you could pick out a stalled car a lot easier from behind before with the 2x2 grid and you could also miss easier.
If you start from pole with a forty car grid you used to have 9 cars straight behind you now you have 19 straight behind you!
When I have been in a race I prefered the 2x2 because it makes passing easier!

knackaneal · 22 Jan 2002, 12:55 (Ref:202657)

Hey Morrie, you are certainly speaking with justified experience there! Can you go rattle some CAMS cages???

Morris 1100 · 22 Jan 2002, 13:15 (Ref:202667)

Nah I can't rattle any cages because I'm in NSW and nobody from CAMS will listen because of that!
But I can spread gossip.......... How about the bloke on a CAMS committee who brings in rule changes so that only his company can get work at racetracks! (It did not work)and then uses his CAMS position to try and squeeze out the competion with more paperwork and different requirements at short notice and this also gives him confidential info for his own competing company.
He is on a committtee that doesn't meet and he makes all the decisions (and it isn't Tim) the other members of this committee are sometimes totaly unaware of his decisions.

RaceTime · 22 Jan 2002, 13:15 (Ref:202668)

Whilst The Old Boys Club is entrenched in CAMS, unfortunately, he will have the same success everyone else has had - none.

Sad, but true.

Morris 1100 · 24 Jan 2002, 08:09 (Ref:203536)

I had a crash at Bathurst in 95 when I put a car on top of a concrete wall with flaggies running for their lives and I spoke to CAMS track inspectors about the design of the walls and they said that there was no problem with the design and I said if I could get a HQ on a wall what could you do in a V8? And they still said no problem!
The walls have since been fixed but it took a few years.

elephino · 27 Jan 2002, 10:09 (Ref:205114)

The likelihood of a crash into a stalled car at the start also depends on what the cars in front of you are doing. Becuase if the car right in front of you, if you are within a few inches of the bumper, suddenly sees a stalled car and swerves away...by the time you see it it is too late. The speed has very little to do with it (unless it is a Daewoo in which case you'd be able to stop in time even with its bad brakes).

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
National FF1600 championship on the cards	Ian Sowman	Club Level Single Seaters	65	7 Jan 2005 14:07
What National Championship ????	Brock	Australasian Touring Cars.	26	1 Sep 2001 11:27