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Old 19 Sep 2016, 19:09 (Ref:3674169)   #1
markymar93
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a little help

I have a 1965 volvo amazon which we want to build into a race car for the hrdc and hscc. It is a ruddspeed tuned car which had an uprated 2 litre rudspeed tuned engine installed back in the sixties. I spoke to the msa and they are concerned that it should be a 1.8 fitted to the car under fia papers. Is there anyway i can get this approved on the basis that it a sixties tuner?
Also in the build does it need to be checked by the msa during the build? I know it needs various items installed for safety but wondered if it needs checking.
finally is there any guidance books on the build requirements.
thanks Mark
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Old 19 Sep 2016, 21:32 (Ref:3674188)   #2
morninggents
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morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If you are considering running to FIA App K spec then you will need to comply with the homologation papers for that model. If there are only papers for 1800cc then that is what it will have to run at though FIA papers do allow a 1.2mm overbore - approx. 45 -50cc.
However, the good news is that the HSCC/HRSR Historic Touring Car championship allows the Volvo to run at 2000cc in class B of the HRSR classes.
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 14:45 (Ref:3674271)   #3
Tel 911S
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not sure which regs are used for the events you are planning , but any Historic spec does need a lot of reading up to know what is allowed for your classes .
If you need a HTP , [ quite expensive ] the details of how to apply are on the MSA website .
If not , try contacting the relevant clubs for information on what is actually needed for their classes .


An example of period regs . The Escort RS , when it evolved into the Mk 2 it was homologated as 1800cc , but FIA Gp 2 regs at the time allowed it to be bored out to 2 Ltr .
Without spending hours looking at all of the paperwork , I believe that was just allowed by overboring , & perhaps not a different throw crank .
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 16:19 (Ref:3674288)   #4
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...
An example of period regs . The Escort RS , when it evolved into the Mk 2 it was homologated as 1800cc , but FIA Gp 2 regs at the time allowed it to be bored out to 2 Ltr .
Without spending hours looking at all of the paperwork , I believe that was just allowed by overboring , & perhaps not a different throw crank .
Wasn't the maximum capacity determined by calculating what it would be if the 'standard' engine had the 'maximum overbore' (which I suppose would have been 0.060"). Presumably someone creative at Ford decided to add this to the previously homologated 1800cc maximum overbored 1600cc BDA giving a further additional 200cc...
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 17:15 (Ref:3674296)   #5
Tel 911S
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Wasn't the maximum capacity determined by calculating what it would be if the 'standard' engine had the 'maximum overbore' (which I suppose would have been 0.060"). Presumably someone creative at Ford decided to add this to the previously homologated 1800cc maximum overbored 1600cc BDA giving a further additional 200cc...
Can,t quite remember all of the twists from the time , but I think the original Mk1 RS1600 was allowed to go out to 1860cc under FIA rules ,so they Homologated the Mk 2 as 1800cc to allow it to go up to 2000cc when they found the alloy block would take that bore size .
Historic regs now mostly allow 2 Ltr in the Mk1s , which I don,t think was correct for International regs originally .
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 17:29 (Ref:3674299)   #6
Tel 911S
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Had a look at 1971 App J for Gp 2 .
It says that " overboring of the cylinder block up to the class maximum capacity is allowed "
So that would indicate that a 1600 to 2000 class engine could be freely taken out up to 2000cc .
[ I think for the Escorts , it might be that the original iron block BDAs would not take a large overbore , but the later alloy blocks could go easily out to 2 Ltr . ]
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 18:02 (Ref:3674315)   #7
Tel 911S
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Had a look at 1971 App J for Gp 2 .
It says that " overboring of the cylinder block up to the class maximum capacity is allowed "
So that would indicate that a 1600 to 2000 class engine could be freely taken out up to 2000cc .
[ I think for the Escorts , it might be that the original iron block BDAs would not take a large overbore , but the later alloy blocks could go easily out to 2 Ltr . ]

But that does not help the original poster , so I have looked in the 1965 App J , & as stated by other posters , in that period the max overbore in Gp 2 was 1.2 mm .
So it will be down to what regs the organising clubs run to .
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Old 19 Jan 2017, 14:02 (Ref:3703582)   #8
markymar93
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markymar93 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hi All
I have now started the build. The car has been stripped down and body work repairs are currently being carried out. We are keeping the original gearbox and majority of mechanics, however, the main complication seems to be the engine. I bought the 1965 Amazon (2 door) with a B20 ruddspeed engine (we believe the car is an original Ruddspeed car), which had been bored out to 2.1l. Annoyingly it appears that the FIA will only accept a B18 engine fitted and i cannot prove that the B20 engine was fitted from new.
Do I need to accept my losses on this and fit a B18 engine? I do have a B18 Ruddspeed engine as well.

thanks Mark
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Old 19 Jan 2017, 15:49 (Ref:3703593)   #9
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You do need to look at the FIA homologation papers and see what was allowed for the Volvo up to 31.12.65. FIA and MSA should have lists of the papers for all homologated vehicles. If the Volvo wasn't entered in international events in Rudspeed 2.0 litre form then it is unlikely it can be raced with that engine in current pre-65 FIA events. It's important you get the papers to see what is allowed.
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Old 20 Jan 2017, 18:40 (Ref:3703900)   #10
Tel 911S
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Having had a quick read through the 122 papers , it looks like the 2 Ltr engine was not Homologated until 1969 .
So if your events have a date limit of before that , then it looks like the 1800cc is the limit allowed unless they have a rule to allow bigger engines outside of App K .
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Old 20 Jan 2017, 20:27 (Ref:3703916)   #11
markymar93
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I thought that it might be the case. Im assuming i could just swap between my b18 and b20 engine depending on the event?
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