Need help tracing the history of an Alan Mann Escort

Greg Cozier · 18 May 2010, 13:24 (Ref:2693312)

Right, I seem to have embarked on a long voyage in deep waters and could do with some help.

I recently acquired an old Escort Mk1 without the engine and have been tracing its history. It has the AMR front suspension setup but 6-link rear suspension and Atlas axle. the engine is missing and there is no chassis plate.

I have subsequently found out the car was brought to the Caribbean by Alec Poole and Derek McMahon who raced here quite allot. It came here with 1800 BDA on injection, ZF gearbox and Atlas. It is described in Poole's original notes as an ex Alan Mann/Ford Boreham/Don Moore car with rear suspension converted to Broadspeed 6-link (no AMR torsion bars).

I subsequently contacted Gillian Fortesque-Thomas who raced the car for Ford before Poole/Mcmahon got it. She says she raced two cars after the Mexicos, one was an old car that Boreham dusted off to use as a test mule for the new 2ltr alloy block and ran in shell colours in '72 run by Don Moore. The other was a blue/white car with a 1300BDA she used in the '73 Grand Prix support race where Brodie had his big accident.

I've spoken to Dave Brodie, he's trying to find me some info from Ford friends. My Ford friends (Martin Sharp and Barry Reynolds) reckon the car is X00 347F, chassis number is BB48GP18167 that was shipped to Poole in August 1973 and is probably an ex-AMR car.

My purpose now is twofold: firstly I have to confirm that this reg/chassis number is right because I have to ship the car back to Uk for restoration on the correct number. Bearing in mind Boreham's history of swapping about chassis numbers depending on what cars were going out the door, I'm not sure how far I can get other than establishing that no other car currently bears these numbers. I also would like to gather as much '68 to '71 race history just to stick in my file.

Any help appreciated.

Mike Bell · 19 May 2010, 06:33 (Ref:2693780)

Greg, sounds like you have done quite a lot of research already so apologies if I am suggesting anything already tried!

Author Graham Robson is one of the most knowledgeable people on Ford Touring Car history.

Alan Mann Racing are still operating- running Fords in historic saloons for Henry Mann.

Sounds as if you have already contacted Alec Poole- if not he is busy organising 2010 Tour Brittania so contact details on that website.

I am ready to be corrected but thought that AMR Escorts had Len Bailey 'inboard of chassis rail' coil sprung rear axles? A period cutaway drawing of XOO349F shows thus. The torsion bar setup I assumed was Boreham experiment? Looking at XOO347F listing in GR's 'The Works Escorts' it suggests car 'loaned to several race teams'- not specific AMR car- then as you say sold to Alec in 1973. The 4 AMR race cars were 344, 346, 348 & 349. On quick search cannot find any race results or pictures featuring XOO347F, so maybe was used for development?

Good luck with your quest (not going to be easy without any proof of id!), and if you are able to post any pics of the car you have may stir someone's memory somewhere!

Greg Cozier · 19 May 2010, 11:02 (Ref:2693935)

Thanks Mike

The only connection I have to this car and AMR is an entry list from Croft on 10/8/68 noting Jackie Oliver as racing an AMR car (second car was Gardner which I assume in 349F). http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...8%20Croft.html

I then have a reference (personal recollection) that the car driven by Oliver was 347F in the same year in 'supercharged' form.

Those cars may well have been different cars but the race entries make no reference to reg numbers so it's hard to make the connection. What I'm after now is old photos of 347F if I can find any.

If you could post or e-mail that old cutaway I'd greatly appreciate it. I've e-mailed Mr. Mann but still awaiting reply.

This car may well have been a development car its entire life, in which case I'd put it back in '72 spec (probably easiest to do that anyway). There is no doubt that it is a works car but if I can make the connection back to Oliver in 68 by way of a photograph with the reg number I'd consider that. The hand-made alloy arches on the back of this car are quite unusual and in very good shape, Gillian remembers them being uncharacteristically large at the time. Poole's '74 notes refer to using F1 tyres on the back of the car and the original Minilites are still on it.

I'll see if I can find Graham Robson.

Mike Bell · 19 May 2010, 11:48 (Ref:2693966)

Hi Greg

Certainly one of the other AMR cars did some races in '68 with the famous 'hair dryer' s/c, but always assumed it was 344, 346 or 348. As you say, a picture would solve the question easily if it showed the reg plate!

Unless sold again XOO 349F is with the Mann family. It was in period trim last time I saw it. The cutaway drawing was done in 1969 for Ford as promo- I have only small version in a Robson book.

The RS1300 Gillian F-T raced in 1973 was a Broadspeed car- round h/lamps, BBS style wheels and later arches now described as 'Zakspeed' arches, so more likely the Boreham 'test mule' would be the car sold on to Poole.

One question for you- is the wiper spindle set up LHD or RHD?

Regards, Mike

Al Weyman · 19 May 2010, 12:26 (Ref:2693999)

If it was originally Gold and red I was offered that car in the 70's when I was into HotRod short circuit racing and dealing in cars by a motor trader collegue of mine Doug Bell who's son (same name) used to race in Formula Vauxhall I believe. The reg looks very familiar and it was fitted with a Lotus twin cam engine and definitely an ex Alan Mann car that he had taken in a part exchange deal. He wanted a £1000 for it which I declined (and kicked myself ever since) as it was way too nice a car for short circuit racing and also was not within the regulations.

Mike Bell · 19 May 2010, 12:49 (Ref:2694027)

There were sixteen XOO prefix cars, Al- although only 4 are documented as used by AMR for UK and European races. 344F was sold to Barry Pearson in Feb '69, 346F to Stan Clark Cars Oct '71, 348F to Wylies Sept '72 and championship winning 349F to Vince Woodman in July '72. So possibly one of those?

Greg Cozier · 19 May 2010, 12:51 (Ref:2694033)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

The RS1300 Gillian F-T raced in 1973 was a Broadspeed car- round h/lamps, BBS style wheels and later arches now described as 'Zakspeed' arches, so more likely the Boreham 'test mule' would be the car sold on to Poole.

One question for you- is the wiper spindle set up LHD or RHD?

Regards, Mike

Yes, Gillian told me about the later blue/white 1300BDA car she raced in the '73 grand prix support race where Brodie had his big accident. Dave raced here allot in the 70s, I've asked him to dig around as well.

Ha! The famous LHD wipers. Yes, this car has them (one) as well as the AMR front suspension. Poole notes the rear end converted to Broadspeed 6-link and I have the original Atlas with those links which are on long arms like Mk2 rally cars, not short arms like Mk1 rally cars. Gillian and local drivers note the car pushed the front a bit and had large front tyres to compensate, probably a function of it being essentially un-matching front and rear suspensions.

Greg Cozier · 19 May 2010, 12:58 (Ref:2694039)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

There were sixteen XOO prefix cars, Al- although only 4 are documented as used by AMR for UK and European races. 344F was sold to Barry Pearson in Feb '69, 346F to Stan Clark Cars Oct '71, 348F to Wylies Sept '72 and championship winning 349F to Vince Woodman in July '72. So possibly one of those?

Not Likely; Barry Reynolds (Ford PR retired) notes 347F was the car shipped to Poole in Dublin in August '73. I think the reg number and chassis number are largely unquestionable; what is in doubt is whether or not it was an AMR car and, if not, what team/drivers raced it. I think the key is figuring out whether other teams used the AMR front suspension; so far it seems not. Alternatively, if the car was a test mule all its life then Boreham may have developed the AMR front suspension on this car. Gillian is positive the car was 'dusted off out of a shed' and fitted with the 2060cc alloy BDA just to test/develop in club races in '72.

Greg Cozier · 19 May 2010, 14:38 (Ref:2694084)

Mystery solved I think.

I just received a copy of Retro Ford Sept. '08 from the editor (my request). In it is an article on AMR. Some quotes:

"AMR collected six Escort 1100Ls from Dagenham in November 1967"

"the cars were registered XOO 344F, XOO 345F (written off by Jackie Oliver), XOO 346F, XOO 347F, XOO 348F and XOO 349F"

Three cars ran in UK and two in Europe it would seem from the article.

Now all I need is some race history and photographs for my car specifically, especially if it was an ETCC car with different livery. The arches on the car now are aluminium, the article states the AMR cars were originally steel. Obviously someone was developing the car from '69 to '71 so it looks like I have some work to do.

Mike Bell · 19 May 2010, 19:07 (Ref:2694262)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

Obviously someone was developing the car from '69 to '71 so it looks like I have some work to do.

Sounds promising- and fun! Good luck with that. Do you think 347 was used in Europe or as development car?- I reckon 344, 348 and obviously 349 were UK cars. Poor 345 didn't get a very good start to life- totalled in early testing! Lucky they had a few more........

Any help I can give from here let me know.

Regards, Mike

Greg Cozier · 20 May 2010, 11:29 (Ref:2694653)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Sounds promising- and fun! Good luck with that. Do you think 347 was used in Europe or as development car?- I reckon 344, 348 and obviously 349 were UK cars. Poor 345 didn't get a very good start to life- totalled in early testing! Lucky they had a few more........

Any help I can give from here let me know.

Regards, Mike

Dunno, hoping to find out.

Here's number five, a plain white 'spare' car. Mine would've been one of the four racers then:

http://www.classiccar.co.nz/articles...ann-escort-180

Mike Bell · 21 May 2010, 06:24 (Ref:2695189)

Interesting article!

I am using for reference here 'The Works Escorts' or bible for short, and it doesn't show any XOO prefixed or indeed AMR cars being sold to NZ, so possibly Fahey's an extra car not documented as a 'works' Escort? That would still leave 5......

BTW, my post #6 was response to Al's previous one so apologies for confusion!

Greg Cozier · 21 May 2010, 11:23 (Ref:2695321)

Got some more info from Alec yesterday. He says the car was in plain white and complete minus the engine when he saw it at Boreham in '73. His deal with Peter Ashcroft was that it be fitted with a brand new injected 1800BDA, 'on the key' as he put it. That's how he received the car in '73 and basically did nothing with it except maybe fit vented front brakes.

So by Gillian's time in '72 with Don Moore, Shell Oil and a 2060 alloy BDA (BDG) it still had AMR front suspension but had 6-link rear suspension on an Atlas, inboard coil-overs, ZF, BDA, large aluminium rear arches.

I have a pic of the Shell car in '72, if you send me your e-mail address I'll send it to you. Maybe posting the pic will jog some memories. greg-at-huzier.com

boyzee · 30 May 2010, 18:25 (Ref:2701179)

Did,nt know if this was of interest

.

Mike Bell · 2 Jun 2010, 06:47 (Ref:2702975)

Thats great! It is the Ford promo referred to earlier. Cheers for posting it.

Greg Cozier · 10 Nov 2010, 18:35 (Ref:2788194)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

G
So by Gillian's time in '72 with Don Moore, Shell Oil and a 2060 alloy BDA (BDG) it still had AMR front suspension but had 6-link rear suspension on an Atlas, inboard coil-overs, ZF, BDA, large aluminium rear arches.

Took the big aluminium arches off the car and found the original steel ones underneath the filler. Quite happy about that!

Still looking for pics and history on XOO 347F. I am yet to see a picture of it racing in AMR colours in 1968 or 1969. I have one static shot of it in 1969.

As always, any help appreciated.

Andy Clegg · 15 Nov 2010, 09:05 (Ref:2790865)

Hi,
I took this photo at the Oulton Park Gold Cup meeting in 1968. Graham Hill was the driver. Writing on door "Alan Mann Racing". Sorry, I don't have the full reg no.
Andy Clegg.

Andy Clegg · 15 Nov 2010, 09:10 (Ref:2790869)

Hi,
This photo was taken 2003 at Goodwood Festival of Speed.
Andy Clegg

jsvahn · 5 Jan 2011, 13:40 (Ref:2811481)

Hi,

I´m new here..

I´m looking for information about RS1600 and all info are welcome. Will start building a RS1600 during 2011..

What´s special about AMR front suspension? Got any photos? Can be emailed to my personel emailaddress (johan AT johansvahn.com)

ex. Matti J Kemiläinen RS1600 have aluminium front wishbones and the dampers upper plate is abit unusual too. Rear suspension does have a 4 link with Watt link and Torsionbars (ARB).

J.

rallycrosscraig · 24 Jan 2011, 11:00 (Ref:2819802)

some info on another XOO reg here

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=103504

I think it is this car nr 1 Andersson/Davenport XOO 355F and that stands in startlist.

Yes, the car that provided the first homologated Escort TC Internatiional rally placing (San Remo, as a Gp3 car). Although homologated in Gp2 by the time of the 68 Gulf, entered here in the Gp5/6 category (which may have involved nothing more than removing the bumpers).
Having done San Remo, Tulip, Acropolis and Gulf, it's believed this car was not used again on a rally. It was stolen in Athens in 69 (having been used as a practice car for the 69 Acropolis?) recovered and sold to a Greek Ford dealer. Have heard it said it later went to Australia.
I have a feeling this photo is taken at a control in South West Scotland, the slightly downmarket looking caravan site appearing in other photos. Not far from where the terrible road accident involving a service crew happened.

david5 · 23 Apr 2011, 08:16 (Ref:2868492)

Completely out of my depth here, but it wouldn't be the Escort brought to Australia for Allan Moffat to use ? It was painted red at one stage with Coke signage but also white when he raced it at Macau ? It vanished from knowledge after that.

zombie289 · 2 Jun 2011, 01:15 (Ref:2889732)

Quote:

Originally Posted by david5

Completely out of my depth here, but it wouldn't be the Escort brought to Australia for Allan Moffat to use ? It was painted red at one stage with Coke signage but also white when he raced it at Macau ? It vanished from knowledge after that.

I remember reading that Moffats AMR built car was bought over from Holman Moody by Moffat, as it was supposed to be raced in the US Trans Am series but never was.
Originally painted white and blue IIRC.

rvdboom · 9 Jan 2016, 08:57 (Ref:3603273)

only read this now. At least 2 Alan Mann Twin Cam's ended up in Holland in 1968. Definitely X00 346F raced for Frami Racing which was financed by Ford of Holland.

Rob carpenter · 23 Feb 2018, 08:54 (Ref:3803344)

All the history of the six escorts that ford supplied alan mann is well documented in Robsons works escort in detail book , the missing car XOO 347F was found by Greg Cozier and recently restored and sold in the UK , all 5 cars accounted for , one was written off in testing. The famous Fahey championship NZ car was always thought to be a Mann car but in Faheys recent book he explained Ford promised Gardners car XOO 349 F but when he arrived in the UK it was sold on so was offered a backup car sitting at Boreham , painted white it was supplied with two FVA engines and racing gearboxs . Another car supplied to Holman and Moody in the USA and eventually sold to Alan Moffat in Austraila has always been referred to as an Alan Mann car , did ford build up these cars to the Mann specs.

Greg Cozier · 3 Mar 2018, 14:01 (Ref:3805467)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob carpenter

All the history of the six escorts that ford supplied alan mann is well documented in Robsons works escort in detail book , the missing car XOO 347F was found by Greg Cozier and recently restored and sold in the UK , all 5 cars accounted for , one was written off in testing. The famous Fahey championship NZ car was always thought to be a Mann car but in Faheys recent book he explained Ford promised Gardners car XOO 349 F but when he arrived in the UK it was sold on so was offered a backup car sitting at Boreham , painted white it was supplied with two FVA engines and racing gearboxs . Another car supplied to Holman and Moody in the USA and eventually sold to Alan Moffat in Austraila has always been referred to as an Alan Mann car , did ford build up these cars to the Mann specs.

XOO 348F was used as a rallycross car in UK, written off and re-shelled into a later round headlight bodyshell. It is a complete reproduction.

Robson got some of his info wrong. The Shell car he shows on page 114 is driven by Gillian but it is XOO 347F with the first aluminium-block BDA (not yet homologated) installed for testing. I met up with Gillian in Barbados last year and filled in quite a few gaps over many rums.

Ford didn't build any of these cars. They gave builders parts (including bodyshells with registrations) and money to build and run them. When they retired from racing they went back to Boreham. That is where Alec Poole bought 347 in 1974. I'm sure they were all disposed of similarly.

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