Group A BMW 635 CSi - a popular, solid performer - Page 32

Jesper OH · 2 Jul 2011, 18:57 (Ref:2914028)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

Just been watching some Thundersaloon videos on Youtube, and spotted what looks very like an ex-Group A 635 on the grid of a Castle Combe Thundersaloon race from 1990, in this Simon Lewis video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBi74...eature=related

It appears several times through the video, though the clearest shot is probably this one on the start grid (about 00:23 secs into the vid)
Any suggestions- maybe the ex-Peter Buxtorf (and previously pretty much everybody from Hans Stuck to Brian Chatfield) car?

Since the car is black, running at the back without a chance of challenging anything in this pack (except the Rover) I don't think a lot of money was spent on the effort, but used as a nice oppertunity to run the beautifull car. So your ex-Buxtorf guess is the best one I can see for the moment. The immediate thought that came to my mynd though, was the 1983 ETCC Schnitzer 635 and the 1984/1985 Kurt König DTM car, both running in black.

Jesper

Tim Wilkinson · 2 Jul 2011, 21:38 (Ref:2914058)

Nigel Smith, sharing with Sam Nelson. Car is ex-Stuck, can't find any more info on it at the moment.

KA - if you want the whole results and report of that round, drop me a PM.

KA · 3 Jul 2011, 09:12 (Ref:2917094)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Nigel Smith, sharing with Sam Nelson. Car is ex-Stuck, can't find any more info on it at the moment.

KA - if you want the whole results and report of that round, drop me a PM.

Thanks Tim- that suggests it's the Cheylesmore car, in which case I think the approximate BTCC history is:

1983- BS Automotive/Cheylesmore- Hans Stuck & Jonathan Palmer
http://www.flickr.com/photos/spuduka/4095427567/

1984- BS Automotive/Grundig- David Kennedy
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3625/...d812db5dfd.jpg

1985- Brian Chatfield

1986 (early season)- Manns Racing- Barry Barnes
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-04-06-031.jpg

1986 (late season) CS Engineering/SDC Builders- Barry Robinson
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5070/...b5f4298cc2.jpg

1988- Peter Buxtorf
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1208/...1ab747a480.jpg

Funnily enough, although it had a long BTCC career (5 seasons), it wasn't actually raced a massive amount- David Kennedy was the only one who did almost a full season in it, the others were no more than a handful of races each...

It's now back in Cheylesmore/Diners Club colours and has appeared in historic racing with Jody Halse
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-Cq_Mjy9VHAI/TT...w/DSCI0034.JPG

FLORENT MOULIN · 10 Jul 2011, 14:20 (Ref:2924564)

Hello there,

I'm looking for 16" Dunlop 275 or Pirelli 265 does anyone has some available ?

Best

FM

KA · 10 Jul 2011, 14:56 (Ref:2924585)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Nigel Smith, sharing with Sam Nelson. Car is ex-Stuck, can't find any more info on it at the moment.

KA - if you want the whole results and report of that round, drop me a PM.

Meant to add- presumably Nigel Smith is the same one who ran the HMSO Vauxhall Cavalier in the mid-90's BTCC? IIRC he was pretty much a Combe regular, being based fairly locally?

http://www.stillphotography.co.uk/ga...15_09.jpg.html

**chunterer** · 10 Jul 2011, 17:46 (Ref:2924666)

That car would be a prime target for the fledgling JD Classics series.......

davyboy · 11 Jul 2011, 18:24 (Ref:2925192)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

Meant to add- presumably Nigel Smith is the same one who ran the HMSO Vauxhall Cavalier in the mid-90's BTCC? IIRC he was pretty much a Combe regular, being based fairly locally?

http://www.stillphotography.co.uk/ga...15_09.jpg.html

Nigel was a stalwart of the Superkart scene in the early to mid 1980s and was always among the front runners at the British Grand Prix and the TV Times series. He used to be sponsored by Stocksigns.

Jesper OH · 14 Jul 2011, 15:53 (Ref:2926633)

By accident I was directed to this Italian forum, which has this large thread on the Italian saloon car series (CIVT) 1987-1999.

http://www.motorforum.it/cronoforum/...=asc&start=800

Two 635s from the opening 1990 round held at Monza

#3 Gianni Giudici
#6 Marcello Gunella

The Giudici car bear clearly signs of being a 1984 Eggenberger car and a bit of an odd one out for Giudici, when looking at the other cars he usually raced, i.e. newly discarded factory cars.

I can't link directly to any particular post or picture, so scroll up and down a bit.

Jesper

**chunterer** · 14 Jul 2011, 18:48 (Ref:2926712)

Great find Jesper!

There's some familiar looking cars there, and not just the 635's?

The dark blue Eggenberger/Crypton RS500, and a rallysport liveried RS500, perhaps the ex Rouse run Ford France car from 1988????

KA · 14 Jul 2011, 23:42 (Ref:2926870)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

By accident I was directed to this Italian forum, which has this large thread on the Italian saloon car series (CIVT) 1987-1999.

http://www.motorforum.it/cronoforum/...=asc&start=800

Two 635s from the opening 1990 round held at Monza

#3 Gianni Giudici
#6 Marcello Gunella

The Giudici car bear clearly signs of being a 1984 Eggenberger car and a bit of an odd one out for Giudici, when looking at the other cars he usually raced, i.e. newly discarded factory cars.

I can't link directly to any particular post or picture, so scroll up and down a bit.

Jesper

As you say, it looks very much like an ex-Eggenberger & CiBiEmme car- quite an old lady by 1990!

http://www.motorforum.it/rid/image_f...KrbGiudici.jpg

Skimming through the entry lists and race results for 1990 in that thread, Giudici had an Alfa 75 Turbo for the rest of the season, although he doesn't appear to have run the full season.
The 635 appears to have run in 'A3' which looks like a category for older cars (mainly 635s and early-spec Alfa 75 Turbos) and only seems to have raced with the A1/A2 cars a couple of times early-season. I'm guessing the A3 cars must have run with the smaller capacity or Group N classes at the other meetings?

Could Giudici have been doubling up by running in A3 as well as A1, or could the 635 have been a one-off (maybe a leased car?) before his Alfa was ready to race?

Jesper OH · 15 Jul 2011, 00:22 (Ref:2926880)

In fact Giudici's main car seems to have been an N1 Ford Sierra RS Cosworth in which he won his class, finishing 4th in the overall group N standing.

Jesper

Graham Clayton · 29 Jul 2011, 04:57 (Ref:2932334)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

How about Peter Buxtorf's 1988 BTCC mount..was that the ex Cheylesmore/Grundig car? that was driven first by Stuck/Palmer then Kennedy then I think Barry Barnes had it for a bit....

Here is a picture of the Buxtorf car:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1678887...in/photostream

One of the more distinctive liveries of the Group A era.

KA · 30 Jul 2011, 19:56 (Ref:2933543)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Clayton

Here is a picture of the Buxtorf car:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1678887...in/photostream

One of the more distinctive liveries of the Group A era.

As I remember the livery changed at least once in the few races Buxtorf did with the car- I've got a pic of it somewhere from Autusport (the Thruxton race where it was shunted) and the pink spots have been replaced by (yellow from memory- it's a b/w pic) diamonds.

The car disappeared from the BTCC after the first few races, but returned later in the year with a TT entry for Buxtorf and I think Colin Blower, but with so many RS500s featuring on the '88 TT entry list, getting an elderly 635 into the race was always going to be a tall order and they were a DNQ.

Another Oulton pic with pink spots...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/retromotoring/5214132169/
...and plain black during a practice session at the same meeting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJHuwASDeMs

**chunterer** · 1 Aug 2011, 13:25 (Ref:2934508)

I don't know if we've mentioned it before but from memory the Cheylesmore (latterly Buxtorf) 635 had quite a distinctive exhaust note compared to the CC and Sytner cars in the Trimoco series.

It had a deeper, more guttural sound.

I didn't know at the time whether that was an engine or exhaust thing.

KA · 3 Aug 2011, 10:48 (Ref:2935322)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

I don't know if we've mentioned it before but from memory the Cheylesmore (latterly Buxtorf) 635 had quite a distinctive exhaust note compared to the CC and Sytner cars in the Trimoco series.

It had a deeper, more guttural sound.

I didn't know at the time whether that was an engine or exhaust thing.

I really don't remember either way- although I think the only time I ever saw it was very briefly during the morning warm-up for the 1986 TT when it was in Barry Robinson's hands (a DNS for some reason as I remember). Despite it having the longest BTCC career of all the 635s raced in the UK, I don't think I ever saw it race!

A nice shot of James Weaver's CC car at Silverstone
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1632976...n/photostream/

and a bit off-topic, but as you've mentioned him- Frank Sytner with a Juma/Bastos 528 at the 1982 TT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1632976...in/photostream

KA · 6 Aug 2011, 23:31 (Ref:2936756)

More 635 stuff from Flickr- just posted some links in the Rover thread for photos by Dan Morgan from the 1983 Donington ETC round, but there's plenty of 635 action, including a few cars we've probably not discussed very much...

The Belgian 'Lucky Strike' cars of Michel Delcourt etc
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627354461572

The regular Czech pairing of Vojtech and Enge- usually Hartge-run cars IIRC?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627354461572

The Jean-Louis Bos/Jean-Christian Duby 'Motul' car, well and truly beached at Redgate- he's not going to get that out of there in a hurry...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627354461572

Giuseppe Briozzo/Hans-Rudolf Stalder- don't know much about this one, in plain white with a distinctive red sort-of-chequered pattern on the front corner. Wasn't Briozzo later involved with the CiBiEmme cars a couple of seasons on from this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627354461572

A Schnitzer car I think(?), but with 'Eterna Watches' sponsorship, Walter Brun sharing with Stuck (Weren't Eterna one of Brun's regular sponsors- IIRC they used to appear on some of the Brun team's Group C cars)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...7627354461572/
The Quester/Heyer Schnitzer car with the more usual corporate image http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627354461572

Eggenberger- Vanoli/Rossi in plain red...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627354461572
...and Kelleners/Grano in the BMW Italia colours
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627354461572

Frank Sytner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57627354461572

More here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...th/6014134656/

...and from the same source, Nurburgring 24 hours, 1988- not sure whose 635 it is side-by-side with one of the Auto Budde Team's 325s
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57624180980748

BILTEL · 10 Aug 2011, 13:32 (Ref:2938094)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

I really don't remember either way- although I think the only time I ever saw it was very briefly during the morning warm-up for the 1986 TT when it was in Barry Robinson's hands (a DNS for some reason as I remember). Despite it having the longest BTCC career of all the 635s raced in the UK, I don't think I ever saw it race!

A nice shot of James Weaver's CC car at Silverstone
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1632976...n/photostream/

and a bit off-topic, but as you've mentioned him- Frank Sytner with a Juma/Bastos 528 at the 1982 TT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1632976...in/photostream

Off topic maybe, but thank you VERY MUCH!! If you know of any more please let me know.

KA · 10 Aug 2011, 13:56 (Ref:2938105)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILTEL

Off topic maybe, but thank you VERY MUCH!! If you know of any more please let me know.

You might want to take a look through these- 1982 Donington ETC pics by Dan Morgan who took the 635 pics in my last post- only just found these about a minute ago, only uploaded to Flickr earlier this week, but the first shot shows an Eggenberger 528- and as it's 1982, I'm sure there'll be loads more of them!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...in/photostream

You might find the odd one in the 1983 pics as well- there were still a few racing in the ETC after the 635 took over

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...in/photostream

BILTEL · 10 Aug 2011, 15:32 (Ref:2938142)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

You might want to take a look through these- 1982 Donington ETC pics by Dan Morgan who took the 635 pics in my last post- only just found these about a minute ago, only uploaded to Flickr earlier this week, but the first shot shows an Eggenberger 528- and as it's 1982, I'm sure there'll be loads more of them!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...in/photostream

You might find the odd one in the 1983 pics as well- there were still a few racing in the ETC after the 635 took over

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...in/photostream

Ahead of you there. I've been trawling through his pics for the last hour or so, but thanks anyway. He's got some great shots of great cars in there.

KA · 10 Aug 2011, 15:53 (Ref:2938156)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILTEL

Ahead of you there. I've been trawling through his pics for the last hour or so, but thanks anyway. He's got some great shots of great cars in there.

So have I! Like you say, some brilliant shots, some of them brin back quite a few memories from races I went to back then

KA · 23 Aug 2011, 13:46 (Ref:2944679)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

As I remember the livery changed at least once in the few races Buxtorf did with the car- I've got a pic of it somewhere from Autosport (the Thruxton race where it was shunted) and the pink spots have been replaced by (yellow from memory- it's a b/w pic) diamonds.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/retromotoring/5214132169/

Found the later version of the Buxtorf paintjob- and yes, the pink spots were replaced by yellow diamonds by the time of the Thruxton shunt that pretty much ended Buxtorf's BTCC season...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLIwu...eature=related

KA · 23 Aug 2011, 14:12 (Ref:2944690)

More Dan Morgan pics on Flickr, and a clue to a question we've discussed several times through the thread- the identities of the various 635s entered by Frank Sytner in 1985.

IIRC, he bought the three (two race cars and a spare) CC Motorsport 635s over the winter of '84/'85, selling them on at various points over the year- one to Mike Newman at the start of the season, the second to Charlie O'Brien in Australia in time for Bathurst, and the spare I think to a Belgian team possibly sometime around mid-year(?), while continuing to use his own regular white car in the BTCC.

Frank also appeared in the two UK rounds of the ETC, but on both occasions, entered a second car as well- Hamish Irvine & John Clark at Donington, and a pair of South Africans at the TT- as I remember we've speculated over which cars were the 'second-string' Sytner entries at these two races.

Finally found a couple of pics of the Irvine/Clark #10 car at Donington- and it's a plain white LHD car...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...in/photostream
(looks not unlike the car that David Sutherland used in a couple of races in late '84...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...57626279965749

Now all we need is a pic of the South African-driven Sytner car at the TT...

The other two British 635s that weekend- Mike Newman's ex-CC car
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...in/photostream
..and Frank himself, sharing #9 with Michel Delcourt.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...in/photostream

635s were a bit thin on the ground by ETC standards at this one, with Schnitzer absent, IIRC CiBiEmme's 3 cars were the only 'regular' European 635 runners to make the trip...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mendama...in/photostream

Jesper OH · 23 Aug 2011, 17:27 (Ref:2944743)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

More Dan Morgan pics on Flickr, and a clue to a question we've discussed several times through the thread- the identities of the various 635s entered by Frank Sytner in 1985.

Now all we need is a pic of the South African-driven Sytner car at the TT...

At the current rate of new pictures posted by Mr. Morgan, that can't be long before such a picture will materialise! Thank you for the effort of finding the pictures and posting the links.

Jesper

KA · 17 Sep 2011, 13:22 (Ref:2956863)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

More 635 pics- Nissan-Mobil 500, Pukekohe NZ, 1986.

#72 'State Coal': Charlie O'Brien/McIntyre- note this is RHD- the ex-CC Motorsport car sold to O'Brien during '85 by Frank Sytner?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8021817...7606882601980/

A bit more on the O'Brien 635s- a comparison, a couple of Nissan-Mobil pics from Pukekohe in 1987

The O'Brien/Glenn McIntyre 'State Coal' car- notice this one is LHD
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...tyreObrien.jpg

..and O'Brien's second car, leased to Allan Milligan/Avon Hyde
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...nMilliganb.jpg
This one is RHD- so presumably the 'State Coal' car from the previous year, and the ex-CC chassis?

While we're on 635s in NZ, the Crowe/Richards 'Archibalds' car, identified as ex-JPS
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...weRichards.jpg

...and the Kent Baigent car, written off at the end of '85
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...entBaigent.jpg

formerf1champ · 22 Sep 2011, 04:31 (Ref:2959382)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

For most touring car fans this particular model is arguably the most synonymous car associated with Group A touring car racing.

4/ The Frank Gardner run superb sinister looking JPS Australian entries.

Over to you....

This OP is a bullseye! Whenever "Group A" term is mentioned, instantly, a JPS 635csi pops into my head.

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