Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 9 Dec 2017, 03:46 (Ref:3785963)   #1
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,261
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Supercars Fuel - Switch to E10 from E85?

Auto Action references discussion in the Supercar ranks of moving to E10 in 2019, away from the current E85.

What would the effects of this change be, and is it a simple change or something more complicated?

Presumebly we would see an increase in fuel economy? For instance at Bathurst until 2009 the teams could get, on average about 32 laps of fuel per tank, then in 2009 it went down to 22-ish....

The return of flames out the exhaust?
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Dec 2017, 22:52 (Ref:3786073)   #2
Ospi
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 522
Ospi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridOspi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Fuel economy will improve and there will likely be some minor intake manifold design changes but nothing severe (trumpet/runner lengths for example) since the effect of less ethanol on the torque curve is similar to running in colder ambient which the teams adjust with those lengths/diameters.
Ospi is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Dec 2017, 09:00 (Ref:3786111)   #3
bludvl_x19
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Australia
umop apisdn
Posts: 1,638
bludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Being completely honest for a moment; I thought that Supercars made a switch back to "regular" fuels when the Sucrogen sponsorship quietly finished/went away a few years back.
bludvl_x19 is offline  
__________________
Supercars isn't the sport. The sport is motor racing.
Quote
Old 11 Dec 2017, 03:42 (Ref:3786213)   #4
djr81
Racer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 324
djr81 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by bludvl_x19 View Post
Being completely honest for a moment; I thought that Supercars made a switch back to "regular" fuels when the Sucrogen sponsorship quietly finished/went away a few years back.
Supercars don't much mention fuel these days. I went for a look the last time I was at an event - they use Shell E85.
djr81 is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Dec 2017, 05:35 (Ref:3786224)   #5
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 46,571
GTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by djr81 View Post
Supercars don't much mention fuel these days. I went for a look the last time I was at an event - they use Shell E85.
United was both a supplier and a series sponsor, while Shell fuels seems to be a toll manufacturer, without the marketing support.

There was some chat at one point that LPGas might have been an option for Supercar, with the market giants in that space interested in joining in...
GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003
“I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions
“Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men
“Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 02:02 (Ref:3786438)   #6
Denosaur
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Albania
Australia
Posts: 1,133
Denosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDenosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
There was some chat at one point that LPGas might have been an option for Supercar, with the market giants in that space interested in joining in...
I heard the same thing, but was for the ute's....
Denosaur is offline  
__________________
It's all about speed! Hot, nasty bad-ass speed!!
Velociraptor Performance Industries
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 02:55 (Ref:3786447)   #7
sizzle
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Darwin
Posts: 3,525
sizzle should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsizzle should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRMagic View Post
United was both a supplier and a series sponsor, while Shell fuels seems to be a toll manufacturer, without the marketing support.

There was some chat at one point that LPGas might have been an option for Supercar, with the market giants in that space interested in joining in...
It is the exact same fuel as when sponsored by United, manufactured by race fuels.
Just a different colour drum with Shell on it instead.
sizzle is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 11:06 (Ref:3786512)   #8
Razor
10-10ths official Trekkie
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Australia
Behind the wheel
Posts: 4,297
Razor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I wonder if they will decrease the fuel tank size to get the same distance per tank as what they get with the current E85 fuel.
Razor is offline  
__________________
One batch two batch, penny and dime
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 11:14 (Ref:3786513)   #9
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,261
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor View Post
I wonder if they will decrease the fuel tank size to get the same distance per tank as what they get with the current E85 fuel.
Hope not, i'd rather it got back closer to the 30-odd lap stints we had pre-2009 (admittedly the tank size is smaller these days too)
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 11:15 (Ref:3786514)   #10
Jam3s
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 372
Jam3s should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I just wish they would ditch the mandatory fuel drop rule. Is Nissan still struggling that much with economy?
Jam3s is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 11:22 (Ref:3786516)   #11
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jam3s View Post
I just wish they would ditch the mandatory fuel drop rule.
dont understand that, Fuel drop is one of the best rules that promote strategy that they have come up with.

From a spectator point of view, it provides no harm, from a racing point of view it is equal, but it allows to teams to provide real startegic points of difference
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 11:27 (Ref:3786518)   #12
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,261
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
from a racing point of view it is equal,
Racing is not supposed to be equal

Why can't those that have built engines with better economy be allowed to benefit? This rule just encourages mediocrity when it comes to getting better fuel economy
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 11:37 (Ref:3786520)   #13
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Racing is not supposed to be equal

Why can't those that have built engines with better economy be allowed to benefit? This rule just encourages mediocrity when it comes to getting better fuel economy
sorry, its not supposed to be equal, says who? Thast the ways supercars are built.

And so what? We have a control series,
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 12:00 (Ref:3786527)   #14
Jam3s
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 372
Jam3s should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Racing is not supposed to be equal

Why can't those that have built engines with better economy be allowed to benefit? This rule just encourages mediocrity when it comes to getting better fuel economy
To be fair, even with the fuel drop, fuel economy is still important as it alters fuel windows slightly in the same manner a race without the fuel drop would. Personally I just find it to be an additional and unnecessary variable as the sport has enough cautions to allow for a good variation in strategies without a fuel drop requirement which often just complicates the racing and makes it more difficult to follow on TV. Lost count of the amount of times the pit commentary team was relaying rig drop figures which led to the commentary team attempting maths and getting themselves confused.
Jam3s is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 12:19 (Ref:3786529)   #15
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Are they really changing the fuel, or are we jumping at shadows?
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 12:38 (Ref:3786533)   #16
Jam3s
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 372
Jam3s should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Are they really changing the fuel, or are we jumping at shadows?
It's likely since Shell don't produce the current fuel and wish for the series to use their product.
Jam3s is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 13:36 (Ref:3786549)   #17
sizzle
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Darwin
Posts: 3,525
sizzle should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsizzle should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Extremely unlikely now, given they originally told Holden they were and then backtracked which had an impact on development of the 6
sizzle is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Dec 2017, 22:36 (Ref:3786675)   #18
Langers
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location:
Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 667
Langers should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by sizzle View Post
Extremely unlikely now, given they originally told Holden they were and then backtracked which had an impact on development of the 6
Source?
Langers is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Dec 2017, 02:39 (Ref:3786717)   #19
sizzle
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Darwin
Posts: 3,525
sizzle should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsizzle should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langers View Post
Source?
Someone close enough to know.
sizzle is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Dec 2017, 04:27 (Ref:3786740)   #20
Jam3s
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 372
Jam3s should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'd be surprised if the concerns of a manufacturer regarding an issue which can be solved would outweigh that of a major series partner.
Jam3s is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Dec 2017, 07:36 (Ref:3786752)   #21
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,261
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
sorry, its not supposed to be equal, says who?
Says just about every competitor (as opposed to promoter) in motor racing since the beginning of time?

As Penske golden child Mark Donahue once said, everyone in motor racing is seeking the unfair advantage

Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
Thast the ways supercars are built.
Is a VF Commodore, Nissan Altima and FG X Falcon all built equal?

If so then why do we need fuel drops?
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Feb 2018, 08:16 (Ref:3803748)   #22
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 46,571
GTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by sizzle View Post
It is the exact same fuel as when sponsored by United, manufactured by race fuels.
Just a different colour drum with Shell on it instead.
So it’s made by Vantage Fuels?
GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003
“I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions
“Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men
“Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House
Quote
Old 25 Feb 2018, 13:05 (Ref:3803792)   #23
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Auto Action references discussion in the Supercar ranks of moving to E10 in 2019, away from the current E85.


The return of flames out the exhaust?
OK & good
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Feb 2018, 13:08 (Ref:3803794)   #24
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Is a VF Commodore, Nissan Altima and FG X Falcon all built equal?

If so then why do we need fuel drops?
Because the Nissan engine is a not purpose-designed performance engine.u Unlike the Ford, Chevrolet or Volvo-Yamaha which have performance roots; the Nissan is based on a utility 4WD engine and will never be competitive otherwise.

Make no mistake, the GTR twin-turbo V6 -- being designed from the outset as a performance engine -- would be much more competitive, but Nissan do not have the interest to incur the huge expense to homologate another engine.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
E85 Help chevy34 Racing Technology 5 1 Mar 2010 23:32
E85 gets the go ahead (ethanol blend of fuel) thunderbolt Australasian Touring Cars. 28 17 Jun 2009 09:25
Hmm......blue or red......which will run faster on E85? bluesport Australasian Touring Cars. 2 19 Jan 2009 06:13
Ethanol (E85) in Production Cars shiny side up! Road Car Forum 5 21 Apr 2007 18:16
E85, it's advantages and drawbacks thebear Road Car Forum 3 23 Feb 2006 01:15


All times are GMT. The time now is 20:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.