IMSA Race 2016 IMSA Round 4: Laguna Seca - Page 5

cbbrit · 2 May 2016, 16:46 (Ref:3637890)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rcz

Got a good number of GT3 cars. Probably have more if it wasn't for that manufacturers tax.

Yup! Still missing Bentley, Cadillac, McLaren, Mercedes-Benz and Nissan!

TF110 · 2 May 2016, 20:09 (Ref:3637935)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbbrit

Yup! Still missing Bentley, Cadillac, McLaren, Mercedes-Benz and Nissan!

Probably won't have Honda's NSX either.

merlot brougham · 2 May 2016, 21:54 (Ref:3637961)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbbrit

Yup! Still missing Bentley, Cadillac, McLaren, Mercedes-Benz and Nissan!

I'd take more diversity but I don't want to see a greater total #. More does not mean better.

Rcz · 2 May 2016, 22:51 (Ref:3637977)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullMan

Smokin' a cig, throwing the yellows.

IMSA in a nutshell.

Lagunaseca_4life · 2 May 2016, 23:41 (Ref:3637984)

had to miss out on being at the track on Friday but was there for Saturday and sunday.overall had a really good and fun weekend. Beautiful weather for the most part but attendance seemed miserably low,small crowds I haven't seen since alms 2009 and 10.

both races were good,surprised in the amount of yellows in the p/gtlm race.the gtlm race was good and there at the end watching both ford and corvette conserve fuel both lifting off sooner and sooner before the brake points.the gtd and lmpc races were fun lots more battles and passing that im sure the broadcast missed if there as one.

really happy ford won,alot better weekend performance than the miserable show I watched at long beach,fingers crossed for le mans.bummer for mazda dropping the ball ,but a nice gain and win for msr.will be an interesting season if they all hold up.

MaskedRacer · 3 May 2016, 00:10 (Ref:3637991)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

had to miss out on being at the track on Friday but was there for Saturday and sunday.overall had a really good and fun weekend. Beautiful weather for the most part but attendance seemed miserably low,small crowds I haven't seen since alms 2009 and 10.

both races were good,surprised in the amount of yellows in the p/gtlm race.the gtlm race was good and there at the end watching both ford and corvette conserve fuel both lifting off sooner and sooner before the brake points.the gtd and lmpc races were fun lots more battles and passing that im sure the broadcast missed if there as one.

really happy ford won,alot better weekend performance than the miserable show I watched at long beach,fingers crossed for le mans.bummer for mazda dropping the ball ,but a nice gain and win for msr.will be an interesting season if they all hold up.

Hearing about the low attendance is very troubling. Would hate for the series to be forced too drop Laguna one day because of that. Come on people in California get off your a$$ wasting your time with whatever you do there on the first weekend of May and go to the darn race track for sportscars.

schmidder · 3 May 2016, 03:04 (Ref:3638017)

I think attendance was about the same as it had been the last couple of years. The corkscrew camping area was packed, as full as I have seen since Rennsport last year. Here's my few cents on the weekend:

I like the split races, makes it very easy to see the competition in each class, and the racing seems more pure (meaning, less using of slower cars as picks, etc). As I commented before, they really need to figure out how to get more teams in GS in the conti series.

Mazda really missed a golden opportunity for sure. Congrats to Ford, but those cars seem so much more advanced than any of the other GTLM cars, really look like prototypes. Hope this doesn't start a $$$ war in GTLM and drive the manufacturers away going forward. Guess we will get more taste when we see what porsche brings next year. Save that spending for P1-H. To be honest, the GT3 cars are a really, really close second to GTLM in my eyes. Unless they are racing against each other, they seem about equal.

Scheduling the split races on Sunday was poor too. There was almost 3 hours between the two and the PC/GTD race didn't finish until 5:45 pm. That's too late on a Sunday for me. So we decided to stay another night in the corkscrew. This is unimproved, dirt that is not camped on other than race events, and the park system comes by and demands another $40 to stay the night. Not a huge deal, but kind of nickle and dime to me.

The weeds were 4 feet tall on Thursday and Friday before they sent a crew up to take care of, couldn't this have been done earlier in the week?

The facilities need an upgrade (I suggest using my $40 as a start). The portable showers on the 9, 10, 11 side of the track suck, they have a single dump station that is closed until Monday am (so you have to stay over and pay the $40 if you want to use it). If you don't camp, this seems minor, but there is a ton of dry camping (all of it) at Laguna, there should be a few dump stations that are available at exit times.

The speaker in turn 9 did not work, so we couldn't hear any commentary.

The permanent bathrooms are old but not horrible, there just aren't enough. Portopotties everywhere.

Sorry for the rant. I have been going to IMSA races at Laguna since the early 70's, I hope that the Monterey Bay Area realizes what a gem of a track they have and can stand and fight the ever growing high end home development that continues to encroach and impose limits on the track. Would hate to see it go away.

Anyhow, love seeing everyone in the corkscrew every year. Thanks Schuby for all the food (do you even realize that races are going on?) and always great to see the Seattle contingent (less Otweiler this year). Great group of folks.

Lagunaseca_4life · 3 May 2016, 03:43 (Ref:3638021)

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidder

I like the split races, makes it very easy to see the competition in each class, and the racing seems more pure (meaning, less using of slower cars as picks, etc). As I commented before, they really need to figure out how to get more teams in GS in the conti series.

Mazda really missed a golden opportunity for sure. Congrats to Ford, but those cars seem so much more advanced than any of the other GTLM cars, really look like prototypes. Hope this doesn't start a $$$ war in GTLM and drive the manufacturers away going forward. Guess we will get more taste when we see what porsche brings next year. Save that spending for P1-H. To be honest, the GT3 cars are a really, really close second to GTLM in my eyes. Unless they are racing against each other, they seem about equal.

Scheduling the split races on Sunday was poor too. There was almost 3 hours between the two and the PC/GTD race didn't finish until 5:45 pm.

yea saturday felt a bit rushed for me but i liked sunday,actually had time to walk the paddock,grab some lunch and walk to the spots to watch the race with out rushing and actually take in and enjoy the beauty of laguna.

i think imsa really screwed up gs by letting the camaros and gt350s come in andd sweep everything then bail out like gm did and ford only leaving one car.then messed up again with the gt4 spec caymans this year driving every one away.

i have to agree on the ford gt,i studied it over really good at laguna and long beach when they were swapping engines.i could not believe how over complicated they are for a gt car.looking at the way the car and all the systems are laid out,its pretty much the riely dp with gt body work.almost like ford took the dp blue prints and used them for the GT.

laguna seca is heading in the wrong direction than id like to see,it scares me to think about it.but laguna might not be around for the next generation to enjoy....

chernaudi · 3 May 2016, 04:56 (Ref:3638025)

The Ford GT is more advanced than a DP, with a carbon tub and torsion bar/pushrod suspension on all four corners. More LMP1 than DP IMO.

merlot brougham · 3 May 2016, 11:59 (Ref:3638093)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chernaudi

The Ford GT is more advanced than a DP, with a carbon tub and torsion bar/pushrod suspension on all four corners. More LMP1 than DP IMO.

This argument is getting old. The world is changing, the latest hypercars are more advanced than the prototypes we see on these shores. And in most cases of GT cars, the engine is detuned from the production version. Get used to lines getting blurred.

Danathar · 3 May 2016, 12:35 (Ref:3638101)

Can anybody say how many people showed up to the event? TV looked pretty sparse (hardly anybody in the stands). Looked dissapointing.

Maelochs · 3 May 2016, 12:41 (Ref:3638103)

I don't mind the Ford GT at all. In North America it seems to me more sensible for factories to put their money into GT than P1 (sadly) because it seems GT makes for an easier platform for promotion---particularly considering people can still buy a Corvette for a little less than the price of a house.

i'd vastly prefer to see Ford and GM and Chrysler/Fiat all building P1s, but I cannot see any RoI for the companies ... while someone considering a Corvette or Viper (Fiat/Chrysler, you are idiots) could easily absorb the race history, someone considering a Chevy in general isn't going to be impressed by a hybrid prototype----Volt sells how many cars?

I say, let Corvette and SRT build balls-out Vettes and Vipers and battle Ferrari and Ford straight up.

carbon_titanium · 3 May 2016, 12:50 (Ref:3638105)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chernaudi

The Ford GT is more advanced than a DP, with a carbon tub and torsion bar/pushrod suspension on all four corners. More LMP1 than DP IMO.

Considering that DP3 use the same DP2 tubs, that are basically steel tubframe structure, I guess that even the prehistoric vantage GTE is more advanced than any DP...

anyway I agree, racing cars must to follow technical regulamentations, street super and hyper cars not; no doubt that at example a street 488 uses much more advanced technologies than 488 GTE!
devices like dual clutch transmission, torque vectoring, active aero and suspensions, active stability systems and a lot of other stuff are not allowed in racing.

Dyson Mazda · 3 May 2016, 12:56 (Ref:3638109)

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlot brougham

This argument is getting old. The world is changing, the latest hypercars are more advanced than the prototypes we see on these shores. And in most cases of GT cars, the engine is detuned from the production version. Get used to lines getting blurred.

I would say the Porsche 918 and the Mclaren P1 are more advanced than anything in P1 privateer and P2.

carbon_titanium · 3 May 2016, 13:01 (Ref:3638111)

to me mclaren p1 is not so advanced... old engine and hybrid without regenerative brake.

otisdog · 3 May 2016, 14:30 (Ref:3638148)

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidder

The speaker in turn 9 did not work, so we couldn't hear any commentary.

What, did somebody cut the wire?

YZFrider · 3 May 2016, 16:12 (Ref:3638170)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danathar

Can anybody say how many people showed up to the event? TV looked pretty sparse (hardly anybody in the stands). Looked dissapointing.

Laguna is one of those tracks that is hard to judge just from camera shots in the stands because people are packed in the paddock or vendor island. Or they are spread out on the hills and what not. I cannot comment this years event as I was not there.
For what it's worth however, the last several seasons of sportscar racing at the track (since the inception of TUSCC/WTSCC) the density of people in the paddock has dropped, camping sites are not as full. It's been a slow decline.

merlot brougham · 3 May 2016, 16:45 (Ref:3638180)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

I would say the Porsche 918 and the Mclaren P1 are more advanced than anything in P1 privateer and P2.

Exactly, LaFerrari, Koenigsegg and Huayra (moveable aero, at least) as well. Get ready for a mid engine 911.

chernaudi · 3 May 2016, 17:54 (Ref:3638199)

The argument may be old, but it's the truth. Same thing happened back in the late 1990's with GTP cars masquerading as GT cars.

Only the factory LMP1 cars and F1 cars are assuredly more advanced than some road going GT cars.

merlot brougham · 3 May 2016, 21:34 (Ref:3638258)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chernaudi

The argument may be old, but it's the truth. Same thing happened back in the late 1990's with GTP cars masquerading as GT cars.

Only the factory LMP1 cars and F1 cars are assuredly more advanced than some road going GT cars.

It isn't a truth until it happens. It may have happened in the past, and that makes it a truth to that situation. But don't predestine the current situation for failure. I am AOK with GTLM being spaceships that look like GT cars as long as they fit the performance window. As long as I also get GT3 and GT4 that are much simpler and closer to the production specs. Which I do

FormulaFox · 3 May 2016, 22:43 (Ref:3638274)

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlot brougham

As long as I also get GT3 and GT4 that are much simpler and closer to the production specs. Which I do

Awww... This one thinks GT3 is simpler and closer to the production car than GTE. HOW KYUUUUUUUTE!!!

merlot brougham · 4 May 2016, 01:15 (Ref:3638298)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Awww... This one thinks GT3 is simpler and closer to the production car than GTE. HOW KYUUUUUUUTE!!!

Than GTE? Absolutely. And I can reply in a non-condescending manner. Your attitude is repugnant.

chernaudi · 4 May 2016, 01:28 (Ref:3638304)

Other than rules BS, I have a hard time telling the difference in performance between GTE and GT3 unless they run the cars without air restrictors.

GT3 cars have very aggressive aero, but their performance is held back by things like ballast, engine power restrictions, and running spec tires.

GTE cars have more aggressive aero on them than even the late 1990's GT1 cars (that were actually based on road going street legal GT cars), but they, even under the current rules, are also restricted in terms of power. Many GTE cars don't make near the power of certainly the top spec versions of the road cars they're based on. Same also applies to GT3 cars to a certain degree.

This is of course because both IMSA and the ACO don't want GT cars to be able to rival prototypes in terms of top speed and lap times. LMP1 cars can make over a 1000bhp, but that's with hybrid systems and in relatively short bursts. On ICE power, an Audi R18, Porsche 919 or Toyota TS050 will probably at tops make a bit more than 600bhp. And that's because the ACO don't want them to rival Group C cars or IMSA GTP cars in terms of raw power, be it though air restrictors (1993-2014) or fuel flow meters (2014-present).

FormulaFox · 4 May 2016, 02:33 (Ref:3638315)

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlot brougham

Than GTE? Absolutely. And I can reply in a non-condescending manner. Your attitude is repugnant.

GT3 cars CAN be simpler and closer to the production car than GTE.

Most of them, however, are not. The BMW Z4 GT3 didn't even have the same engine LAYOUT as the roadcar, nevermind the same actual engine.

GT3 allows manufacturers to use any gasoline-powered engine they have available, while GTE requires a waiver for anything over a certain size or not derived from the roadcar engine. GT3 allows more suspension alterations and aerodynamic devices than GTE.

If either class is going to produce late-90s GT1 insanity, it won't be GTE.

nasportscar · 4 May 2016, 14:04 (Ref:3638468)

data analysis http://nasportscar.com/2016-imsa-dat...s-laguna-seca/

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