Karts on a Hillclimb???

[Stuart Hill]

There seems to be some interest in possibly Hillclimbing Karts, mmmm could we? and I was wondering what is needed for a venue to obtain a Kart License?

As a marshal, I would love to watch Karts take on the hills and so look forward to possibly making it happen.

anyone know the regs???

[Maisie]

Why start another thread? It would be more helpful to stick to the original thread so that the person who posed the question originally gets the benefit of your knowledge?

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by Maisie
Why start another thread? It would be more helpful to stick to the original thread so that the person who posed the question originally gets the benefit of your knowledge?

I have done done so Maisie (and elsewhere) to try and cover all bases and so facilitate a constructive reply. I work on the principle:

The more people get asked, the more answers I may get.

[Malc's]

I vaguely recall something about electric karts doing demo runs at Curborough a few years back and BARC also had a competition Land Rover sprinting at one meeting once it was defined as a car and not a commercial vehicle. It was quick too.

[EvilPumpkin]

Is there actually a separate licence required? I've been at motorsport events that had cars and karts as well - I didn't realise a special licence was required?

Is this for everything or just for hill climbs?

IIRC Steve and Jackie Tarrant would be our resident kart experts?

[Steve Tarrant]

Hi all

Yes, a separate MSA kart licence would be required before they could run on the venue, and that would also mean a further visit by the MSA Safety executive to view the venue for the suitability of karts (protection, runoffs, etc) before a safety licence could be issued to the venue first before they could apply for a race permit.

Certainly the 250cc gearbox karts would certainly give the cars a run for their money!!!!!!

Hope this helps


Steve

[JimW]

I'm sure I recall a kart or two running at a hill some years ago. :confused:

Or perhaps it was a car using kart wheels (because I remember that there was some controversy about that). :confused:

Anyway what is the definition of a kart? Is it the lack of a sprung suspension or would that allow tractors in?

Regards

Jim

[wookiee]

I thought that karts were defined as powered roller skates?

[ghinzani]

Thanks for that info Steve - I'm going to mail the Gurston organisers anyway to raise the subject. What the entyr fee for hillclimbs? that also might be a stumbling point as 30 quid gets us three heats and a final at most places we race.

[Superliner II]

I thought that karts were defined as powered roller skates?

My powered roller skate has power to weight ratio of 175 bhp/ton, Rotax 125cc (three times what your car is i bet)
Others have up to 450 bhp/ton, Superkarts 250cc. These will comfortable see off every single seater race car up to F3000 and then some around most of the main tracks in the world.

On topic my partner and i, among others, are very enthusiastic about running our Karts on a hill climb. I am sure that i could convince many others too because i know that we are not the first to ask the question among ourselves. Beware though our Karts will put many of the cars entered in hillclimb events to shame

Hillclimbing tractors, Hmmm i know a few people with some seriously modified farm machinery that may well be interested in that

[Richard Sneader]

On one of the Havoc videos there is footage of Karts doing one of the hills. I do not know what there requirments were or what licences were needed.
RS

[glyn parham]

Back in the 1973 I remember watching in awe at the antics of the Motus, climbing Prescott at ridiculous speed, surely that was a kart!

[ghinzani]

Didnt the Motus have wood in it or was that the s2000?

[Woolley]

Phil Jeffries used to run a trackstar, basically a modifired(?) kart before the MSA banned it. Inititally it was done on wheelbase, but he simply hung a spare pair of wheels off the back. Some other way of doing away with it was found. The only thing more frightening than when it was going was the couple of times it stopped suddently, fortunately without harm.Karl Scholar drives a Spectre which appears to be a kart with bodywork/spaceframe

[Gizmo]

There is a guy who regularly competes a Kart on the Val Des Terres hill on Guernsey...and beats most others !!!

[flagwaver]

I seem to remember the reason that Karts were banned from Hillclimbs/sprints was that they were just to quick. Meaning that the only way to be competitive was to have a kart.
Although I for one would love to see Karts on Hillclimbs/sprints but the problem would be they would take all the venues fastests times.
Now whilst most drivers want to win what they also want is to set the venues fastest times. Even if karts run as seperate class & can not compete in the actual championship they would still set fastest times.
This would confuse a lot of spectators & detract from the main event.

[Superliner II]

Why would it confuse spectators? Surely they could understand that it's a two stroke so more power and very light? Also I suspect Gould etc could make something quicker than a tubular framed vehicle with no suspension, no diff and a motocross engine

[superbird]

Sorry above post was me

I thought that karts were defined as powered roller skates?

grow up

[Jim Lamb]

Stu,
As Jim(Gizmo) has already stated, Karts run regularly at the two Channel Island hills. So there is a precendent set. However its down to the event organisers to decide classes etc. I would have thought that the best person to approach would be Tony Fletcher, as his knowledge in this area must be the definitive 'Last Word'!! However I caution you now, that certain clubs may be reluctant to accept Karts, based on past history (Trakstar) and the fact that certain hill records would go!! Wouldn't that upset the establishment?
I guess if they were admitted then they wouldn't be eligible for Championship honours and someone would propose a rule change to exclude them the following season. Shades of 1988-89.............
Regards,

Jim

[Woolley]

I think the problem with the trackstar was it was in the same class as 'normal' 500cc single seaters and so had a huge advantage in terms of power to weight ratio as well as having effectively more track to use in terms of width of vehicle to widht of track. If it were to happen, I think they would need their own class.

[Jim Lamb]

Originally posted by glyn parham
Back in the 1973 I remember watching in awe at the antics of the Motus, climbing Prescott at ridiculous speed, surely that was a kart!

The Motus-Yamaha, as driven by Ray Rowan was a 250cc Kart. It did upset a few people at the May Shelsley meeting in 1973.

Jim

[Stuart Hill]

I would have thought that the best person to approach would be Tony Fletcher, as his knowledge in this area must be the definitive 'Last Word'!!

This i did and the Word is as follows:

"To enter a hillclimb, one needs a car. A car is defined, amongst other things, as having a wheelbase of at least 72 inches". The rules do NOT say which wheels have to be measured though, hence the occurance some years ago of a "Kart" with some trailing bogey wheels to increase the wheelbase!!

However, should a venue choose to apply for a Kart License, then if granted, Karts could run on a hillclimb, just like the bikes. (They have to have a separate license for the venue also, hence their need for their own Stewards etc).

[superbird]

Did you get to find out how much it would cost to have a hill inspected and licensed as a kart venue? Because if enough people were interested it might be worth us forming a hillclimb kart club and raising the money to do it if the organising club or owner doesnt want to take the risk. I suppose there's the time involved as well though.

[Sheila M]

Superbird, you sound as though you could do with speaking to John Symes at the MSA to see about getting a hill licensed for karts. Also, have you tried speaking to anyone from the HSA (Hillclimb and Sprint Association)? I would be interested to know what anyone has to say about getting a kart hillclimb or sprint going. Hillclimbs and sprints for cars aren't that difficult to organise if you have a good committee that knows what they are doing - I speak from experience here because I'm on one - so it shouldn't be too much problem with karts.

I'd be interested to know how you get on.

[glyn parham]

Jim, thanks for setting me straight on the Motus, I didn't remember the driver etc. Did it appear for just the one season though?
Would there be safety implications for karts at hillclimbs, I have this awful thought of a kart hitting a tyre wall or safety barrier which is designed to stop a race car, not a small kart!