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Old 28 Apr 2013, 22:43 (Ref:3240346)   #31
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Who is saying chuck out the privateers? There were still plenty running in the late nineties. I don't think having more manufacturer P1s necessarily means less privateers. It just comes back to the regs.

The situation can't get much worse than it is now when there's arguably the best chance to get on the podium at Le Mans in the last few years.
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 22:46 (Ref:3240347)   #32
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Who is saying chuck out the privateers? There were still plenty running in the late nineties. I don't think having more manufacturer P1s necessarily means less privateers. It just comes back to the regs.

The situation can't get much worse than it is now when there's arguably the best chance to get on the podium at Le Mans in the last few years.
I agree in that you can have privateers with plenty of manufacturers as you say if the regulations are written correctly, without the privateers in the late 90s Le Mans would have had another 1993 in 2000.

And situations can always get worse, especially considering the skyrocketing costs associated with the new regulations for privateers.
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 22:48 (Ref:3240348)   #33
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When there are too many factory teams involved in a series, there can only be one winner a season, so manufacturers lose interest and question why they spend so much money to be the 4th or 5th factory team.
Then Neveu just has to make it worth it to finish 4th or 5th. Right now that's of course the same as finishing last [in class]. The factory team hayday lasted quite long in F1 and some boardrooms seemed quite patient with expectations and results... and even when it ended, a bad economic situation played a big role.

ps. One thing I just realized: despite the many pullouts in F1, only one of them reduced the grid size, and it's the only one that was built in-house from scratch (Toyota).

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Old 28 Apr 2013, 22:53 (Ref:3240349)   #34
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How do you encourage privateer teams to take on the factories who will always have much more resources?

I think this is the financial crisis showing it's impact on motorsport:

the mega rich are now only super rich & can no longer spend enough on their hobby to match the ultra rich.

But to be mega/super rich, you have to have the kind of ego which would stop you wanting to run in the 2nd division or be clever enough not to spend your fortune chasing a world power like VAG
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 22:58 (Ref:3240352)   #35
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Deggis, that's F1 though.

In sportscar racing with some exceptions (like Peugeot) it's been mostly due to companies leaving for other 'bigger and better (more popular)' forms of motorsport, namely, you guessed it, Formula 1.
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Old 28 Apr 2013, 23:05 (Ref:3240354)   #36
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Deggis, that's F1 though.

In sportscar racing with some exceptions (like Peugeot) it's been mostly due to companies leaving for other 'bigger and better (more popular)' forms of motorsport, namely, you guessed it, Formula 1.
More like valid examples of leaving for F1 are the exceptions.
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Old 29 Apr 2013, 04:23 (Ref:3240400)   #37
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There have been a few threads recently that whilst having healthy discussion have wandered somewhat off topic and meandered into new directions. Therefore I thought it would be good to have a broad discussion thread in which wider topics could be discussed as long as they have a link to Sportscar racing, remain in good humour and within the forum rules. So here it is - talk away..... The floor is yours.
Interesting...ever so vague...
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Old 29 Apr 2013, 06:53 (Ref:3240414)   #38
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Who is saying chuck out the privateers? There were still plenty running in the late nineties. I don't think having more manufacturer P1s necessarily means less privateers. It just comes back to the regs.
As long as we have limited grid spots, more manufactures will always mean less privateers .

A privateer team is in the race for the long run, they live for the racing.
A manufacture team is in the race for a more or less limited time, as it's not what they live for.

For me having 2-3 Manufactures all the time, and the rest privateers is optimal. As I rather see a race being strong for a long time, than it to have a few strong years, and then become weak.
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Old 29 Apr 2013, 06:55 (Ref:3240415)   #39
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To have a stable starting grid in P1, there must be stable rules, first of all.
Then, you must have a better media coverage, discussing the technical rules with all manufacturer involved in the field, making a trophy for private teams.
Other things to do are a time constraint for all manufacturers involved in the championship (at least 3 seasons), giving more freedom to engineers about technical innovations they may experiment on the cars. It's time to stop to make the rules on the size of the manufacturers intend to take place in the series, but make the same rules for all. This make credible any championship.
Another one thing, is to limit the works car in Le Mans at just 2 each manufacturer team.
With at least 3 or 4 stable manufacturers involved in the championship, and a large private teams field, a strong media coverage would be easier to achieve.
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Old 29 Apr 2013, 08:00 (Ref:3240441)   #40
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Part of the problem for the privateers increased reliability of the factory teams as barring big accidents the chances of them finishing is very high and therefore they will normally lock out the podium.
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Old 29 Apr 2013, 08:35 (Ref:3240449)   #41
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Much as i hate to say it Mr Eccelstone and his team in F1 have controlled the finances well and along with making themselves mega rich they have ensured that some of the money generated by the sport keeps the teams going, even if you fail to gain points in a season you still get a percentage of the cash generated, In sports car racing all teams must finance themselves not easy in today's economic climate.
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Old 29 Apr 2013, 08:56 (Ref:3240452)   #42
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Much as i hate to say it Mr Eccelstone and his team in F1 have controlled the finances well and along with making themselves mega rich they have ensured that some of the money generated by the sport keeps the teams going, even if you fail to gain points in a season you still get a percentage of the cash generated, In sports car racing all teams must finance themselves not easy in today's economic climate.
Thats true, but unfortunately that only works when you have got enough attendance and viewers to get circuits and TV companies willing to pay big money to get you. Mr E has done a brilliant job of elevating F1's popularity, whilst stamping on other series so that F1 is the only globally popular motorsport series.

I think sportscars needs to concentrate on building an ever bigger and bigger loyal and high quality fanbase rather than channel surfing casual viewers as the nature of endurance racing does not suit those casual viewer as it requires longer attention span to understand it. We all know that once your hooked then you cant let go!
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Old 29 Apr 2013, 09:47 (Ref:3240484)   #43
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I do agree but if sports car racing had strong leadership and the ability to organise itself into a more saleable brand then TV coverage would follow and the sport would grow, The strong organisation and vision of the Blancpain series has seen it grow and attract high quality sponsors so it can work and attract both fans and cars the WEC effort has been a good try but has fallen short IMHO
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Old 29 Apr 2013, 14:55 (Ref:3240579)   #44
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An interesting question came up today whilst watching the Audi Monza test video with a colleague - does anyone know the amount of downforce generated by topline P1 car compared to an F1 car? I assume the F1 car is more, but the way the R18 went flat out into the curva grande - made me wonder?
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Old 29 Apr 2013, 15:43 (Ref:3240592)   #45
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An interesting question came up today whilst watching the Audi Monza test video with a colleague - does anyone know the amount of downforce generated by topline P1 car compared to an F1 car? I assume the F1 car is more, but the way the R18 went flat out into the curva grande - made me wonder?
I think values are closer than how we may think. I don't know exactly the numeric values, but I'm alway surprised how fast are P1 in confront of F1.
P1 are heavier, their power is restricted, but they're very close to F1. This is incredible! Then if you think F1 can only be fast like a F1 only for 2 hours, while a P1 can be as fast as a P1 for at least 24 hours... is incredible!
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