Silly Season Rumors

[SevenGrain]

The Silly Season rumors getting the most circulation after Mid Ohio center around Team Rahal. They are only rumors at this point.

1. Kenny Brack will replace Bruno Junqueira at Ganassi in 2002
2. Alex Barron will replace Max Papis at Rahal, perhaps before this season is over.
3. Team Rahal, Miller and Shell will participate in the Indy 500

That would leave a prime seat open at Rahal if this ends up being true...

[gomick]

isnt buddy rice contracted to team rahal, thought he could replace max right away......
has anyone heard how townshend bell went in his test for pat patrick

[mac]

Townsend Bell went very well, turning in a fast lap of 66.6 seconds. Watching his old teammate go around, it makes me think how much I would have loved to have seen how Jason Bright would have gone.

I reckon replacements at Rahal are pretty much limited to Buddy Rice, Andre Lotterer, James Courtney, Oriol Servia, or maybe even Dario Franchitti or Jimmy Vasser.

As for others, I would not be surprised to see Dario go somewhere else. He is off contract at the end of the year.

Fernandez Racing, Mo Nunn Racing, Penske, Players and Ganassi will keep their two drivers.

It wouldn't shock me if Team Green dropped one car.

Fittipaldi, Gugelmin, Moreno and Papis are all in trouble at their respective teams. Maybe Jourdain could be to.

By the way, what's happened to Zakspeed and their second car? I noticed Herta's car isn't called Zakspeed anymore.

[f1manoz]

Originally posted by mac
Townsend Bell went very well, turning in a fast lap of 66.6 seconds. Watching his old teammate go around, it makes me think how much I would have loved to have seen how Jason Bright would have gone.

I reckon replacements at Rahal are pretty much limited to Buddy Rice, Andre Lotterer, James Courtney, Oriol Servia, or maybe even Dario Franchitti or Jimmy Vasser.

As for others, I would not be surprised to see Dario go somewhere else. He is off contract at the end of the year.

Fernandez Racing, Mo Nunn Racing, Penske, Players and Ganassi will keep their two drivers.

It wouldn't shock me if Team Green dropped one car.

Fittipaldi, Gugelmin, Moreno and Papis are all in trouble at their respective teams. Maybe Jourdain could be to.

By the way, what's happened to Zakspeed and their second car? I noticed Herta's car isn't called Zakspeed anymore.

Zakspeed pulled the plug as they couldn't find any sponsorshp for the car, which was part of the deal, so Forsythe is running the team by himself with Indeck sponsorship which is also on the Players cars.

As for the silly season, Papis will be gone from Rahal for sure after his poor form this season. I don't think Brack would leave Rahal if he wins the title.

It could be all change at Patrick because both are off contract. Jimmy has a chance of staying, but poor Moreno could again be forced to play SuperSub. If money doesn't start appearing, Pat might be forced back to one car next year with only Visteon unless he gets a driver who brings a sponsor, of which Vasser and Moreno don't have.

TKG will keep Franchitti and Tracy, but Team Motorola with Andretti could have a new owner if fractures start to appear, or if it becomes too much of a task for Bazza.

Walker should dump Takagi for someone else. Probably a young rookie (preferably a Yank) such as a Bell or Lotterer.

Ganassi could be all change again. Junquiera is by no means safe, although he has performed well if inconsistently. However, I think Gidley definetely deserves a seat there next year.

[Liz]

I have heard that Brack to Ganassi is a done deal, and I'd be willing to bet that Bruno keeps his seat and Memo is the one shown the door. (Bruno has his own money - Gidley, as we know, does not. Also Bruno was outstanding at the Indy 500 which apparently matters to some people.) Rahal may run Memo if he can sell the sponsors on his "All American Boy" image.

It would be extremely odd if Patrick continued with Vasser, who has had no success lately and no glimmer of a sponsor for the entire year, over Moreno who has been consistent when the car allows him and who doubtless costs a lot less to run than Vasser does. Perhaps Vasser will be the new supersub. I'm guessing Bell (who reportedly has his own money) will get Vasser's seat next year.

And the options Derrick Walker has are limited as he must run a pay driver. Do those youngsters you mention bring substantial sponsorship with them? (If he were going to run a young driver I'd bet he'd run Sarah Fisher, if he could afford it.)

But it all boils down to who gets the cash. Talent is by the wayside for the teams that are mentioned in this Silly Season ...

Any chance that Mikey will go to Brand X Racing as an owner? I had heard that rumour last year but unfortunately it turned out not to be true. Will he continue to try to win Indy 500 and fail until he's as old as his father is now?

[KC]

Barron just signed a deal to race in the IRL, so he is taken. I think Buddy Rice is in line for the Papis ride.

[Liz]

I thought so as soon as Rahal signed him. I haven't seen him race but apparently he's quite good?

[SevenGrain]

Another rumor gaining momentum has Paul Tracy going to Player's next season. Hard to say if there is any truth to that, But I can tell you that the rumor originated in the Forsythe camp. This same rumor also puts Tag in a TKG car for 2002.
Also Team KOOl Green has called a press conference for tomorrow, The substance of which I do not know. Some speculation centers on an Indy 500 announcement. Green is searching for a sponsor for Indy, as KOOL will not be allowed to go under the Tobacco Settlement of 1998.

[Joey Jo Jo]

As I understand it both Players and Kool are owned by British-American tabacco (also own BAR f-1 team) Before this year I heard that they were going to all but force Tracy to race for Players.
The Canadian market is so huge with race fans, Players wants to see a high profile driver in their car.

[SevenGrain]

Originally posted by f1manoz


I don't think Brack would leave Rahal if he wins the title.

Don't count on it, Brack is looking to at least double his salary, which is about 2 million.

Rahal said, "I'd like to keep him, but there are people throwing a lot of money Kenny's way, I wouldn't blame him if he took it."


Ganassi also owns a two car NASCAR team which is part of the appeal for Brack. Kenny has stated publicly that he definitely would like to try NASCAR in the near future.

[SevenGrain]

Originally posted by Joey Jo Jo
As I understand it both Players and Kool are owned by British-American tabacco

Actually, KOOL is owned by Brown & Williamson Tobacco and Player's is a Phillip Morris brand.

[Joey Jo Jo]

SevenGrain perhaps there was a merger??
It says on BAT web sight "kool" also John Player
is that "Players"?? I also thought Players was a Philip Moris company isn't that why the Players cars ran without livery on the side pods last year? because of the tabacco rules only allowing one advertising per team, per company


Within British American Tobacco we have in excess of 320 tobacco brands. These are managed across three levels.

International brands are those which cross a number of regions. Communications are co-ordinated centrally in order to present one consistent message to consumers globally. Examples include: State Express 555, Dunhill, Rothmans, Benson & Hedges, Lucky Strike, Kent, Peter Stuyvesant, John Player Gold Leaf and Winfield.

Regional brands feature strongly within one geographic area. Advertising, promotion and product are co-ordinated by the regional or area team. Such brands are: Belmont, Embassy, Hilton, Barclay and L&B.

Local brands are strong at a national level and are of significance to an operating company. They are managed entirely at the country level. Examples are: HB, Jockey Club, Sportsman, Yava, Jan III Sobieski, Hilton, Ardath, Xon and Kool.

[Joey Jo Jo]

I Just found out the truth both are owned by BAT look at this link
http://www.bat.com/bat/bathome.nsf/fsHPG_mainfs!OpenFrameSet

If you look at the logo for John Player the logo also appears on the bios for Tag and Pat

[SevenGrain]

I'm fairly certain that Player's and John Player are two entirely different entities,

look at this link:
http://www.philipmorrisusa.com/Displ...opic.asp?ID=41

It lists Player's as a Phillip Morris brand.

Also the Brown and Williamson website is lists Lucky Strike as a brand along with KOOL, so perhaps Brown and Williamson is an operating company within British American Tobacco.

[Liz]

Since Players Cigarettes will be forced out of racing in 2002, the whole Tracy/Tags argument is moot, isn't it? Besides which I can't see much difference in the two drivers exept that personally I think Tags is cuter.

But the question of interlocking ownership of cigarette brands is an intriguing one ... this is one of those things I work with every day so I asked my boss about it. He said that the interlocking bit is due to the breakup of a monopoly (BAT/American Tobacco Company) in 1911 - then controlled by a man called "Buck" Duke - and as a result Philip Morris got the Players' brand and BAT got the John Player Gold Leaf. Later on when they all got into each others' pockets, some brands in England were assigned to American companies and subsidiaries, and now it's pretty much impossible to tell who owns what. :confused:

Perhaps Motorola would like to take a chance on Our Paul next year. His cars don't blow up anyway and if there's a fight in the pitlane he is more likely to win.

[Joey Jo Jo]

I have viewed the Phlip Morris page and it does show Players as their brand. But it is still confusing because of the logo. I have attatched the bottom part of the Players driver bio. As well as the picture from the BAT site.

you will see it is the same navy guy logo

Perhaps two diffrent tabacco sponsers for one team?? Any insight??

[Joey Jo Jo]

second logo

[Joey Jo Jo]

Thanks Liz, not sure if the explaination has helped me or made me more confused. Is BAT in charge of both race teams??

[SevenGrain]

I'm confused too... Suffice to say though that eventually there will be no cigarette money in auto racing anyhow.

[Liz]

No, Players (Imperial Tobacco Ltd. which is a subsidiary of BAT based in Montreal) is solely Canadian. Team KOOL Green is run by Philip Morris USA. All of the present-day cigarette companies are offshoots of the 1911 "breakup" which was mandated by the US Government - there are no "independent" cigarette companies left and haven't been for a long time.

But as you say, there will be no cigarette money in racing in 2 years or so, and none in Canada after next year if they get things the way the government wants them.

Since there is no other money in Canada now, this could mean the end of Canadian racing, but we hope not.

[SevenGrain]

Isn't there plenty of beer money in Canada?,

(That didn't come out sounding right, but you know what mean)

Labatt's and Molson have had involvement in racing as long as I can remember...

also Team KOOL Green is definitely not run by Phillip Morris USA, I've spend a good portion of the day reading tobacco company websites trying to get to the bottom of this, and I don't even smoke. KOOL is a brand of Brown & Williamson (under BAT). Phillip Morris considers Brown & Williamson as one of their competitors. Both Phillip Morris and Brown & Williamson list more than 25 cigarette brands each

According to some of what I've read today, Philip Morris was not even a part of the monopoly breakup in 1911, Here is some history (courtesy of Brown and Williamson)

James Buchanan Duke was a pioneer of the modern tobacco industry. With aggressive leadership, and backed by vast capital and superior technology, he ranked among the most respected and successful competitors of his day.

Growing up on his family's tobacco farm in North Carolina, Duke learned persistence and determination at his father's side. Nearly penniless after the Civil War, the Dukes worked to convert their small remaining tobacco stocks into a viable foundation for a future in the business.

In the late 1800s, the U.S. tobacco market was dominated by plug chewing and smoking tobacco products. Cigarettes, still a novelty, would not become broadly popular for a number of years. Nevertheless, the Dukes envisioned an opportunity. In 1881, they decided to expand into the manufactured cigarette business.

Three years later, Duke acquired the rights to a cigarette-making machine which could turn out 50 times the volume of hand rollers. Recognizing the value of mechanization, he was also the first to invest heavily in advertising and merchandising to support the sale of his cigarette products.

Duke's prominence led to a merger of the four leading competitors, and the American Tobacco Company was formed in 1890. Just past his 33rd birthday, J.B. Duke was elected president. The new company was responsible for about 90 percent of all U.S. cigarette manufacturing.

At the turn of the century, Duke's tobacco trust was drawing the attention of the U.S. government. Even though the company controlled nearly all U.S. cigarette exports, Duke began to invest heavily in factories overseas. In 1901, he bought Ogdens, Ltd., in Liverpool.

Faced with the prospects of competing with Duke, 13 British producers merged to form the Imperial Tobacco Company. A trade war ensued which lasted about a year.

A peace was negotiated in 1902. Under terms of the settlement, Imperial and American Tobacco agreed not to trade in each others' domestic territory and to assign brand rights each to the other for use in their respective home markets.

In addition, a new company, British American Tobacco Co. Ltd. (B.A.T.) was formed and registered in London on September 29, 1902, to acquire the two founding companies' recipes, trademarks and export businesses and to own and operate their overseas subsidiaries outside the U.S. J.B. Duke became the first chairman of the British American Tobacco Co. Ltd.

On July 19, 1907, the U.S. Government brought suit against the American Tobacco Company, charging violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act. The case ultimately reached the Supreme Court, and in 1911, that Court issued a ruling that broke up the old American Tobacco Company into several large competing companies: American Tobacco Company (a new corporation), Liggett & Myers Tobacco Company and P. Lorillard Company.

The American Tobacco Company was also required to cancel its original covenants with B.A.T. and Imperial and to divest itself of its B.A.T. shares. B.A.T. then became a quoted company on the London Stock Exchange. Most of the shares disposed of by American Tobacco were acquired by British investors.

Thus B.A.T. became free to conduct its business independently in all parts of the world except the British Isles, where the 1902 territorial agreement with Imperial Tobacco remained in force.

B.A.T. began to build and buy factories in many foreign countries, eventually to become the world's largest manufacturer of tobacco products. In 1927, B.A.T. found its foothold in the U.S. market with Brown & Williamson.

[Liz]

Thanks, that was well done. I am sorry for the Kool confusion - not thinking clearly after a long day I guess.

I don't think the beer money is going to individual teams, but we can always hope. Rogers AT&T (cable company) has taken over the du Maurier Tennis, so anything is possible.

[Speedworx]

Franchitti signed a deal with Team Green for another 2 years.

I'd rather Memo stays at Ganassi. He has more points than Bruno.

[Lutz]

Just a question to the person who said "Barron just signed a deal in the IRL but with what team?

[Jimmyz360]

I think i should be in team penske 3rd car as Jimmy Z as the best driver in CART, with my times at speedzone in cali i should be in CART in no time a tall...i wanna be a marlboro man even though i dont smoke...but somehow marlboro always wins...like ferrari and penske