Greg Murphy - Page 4

Amaroo Park · 20 Oct 2002, 07:43 (Ref:408362)

Quote:

Originally posted by greg.n
Any number of things could cause an accident, including passing another car. Motor racing is dangerous but people should not be unreasonably penalised for things that didn't cause accidents and it is totally unreasonable for things that don't actually cause accidents or don't affect the outcome of a race to to be penalised in a way that does affect the result of the race, even if its just for that one competitor.

So it's ok to spill 50 litres of petrol in the pits cause your team doesn't have it's act together?

Warwick · 20 Oct 2002, 07:44 (Ref:408363)

Murhpy said his signal to go is when the car comes off the jacks,they dropped it before the fuel was finished and he went.

Amaroo Park · 20 Oct 2002, 07:48 (Ref:408366)

Quote:

Originally posted by Warwick
Murhpy said his signal to go is when the car comes off the jacks,they dropped it before the fuel was finished and he went.

Shows how clever the team and Murphy are.............. No very

Jack racer · 20 Oct 2002, 08:33 (Ref:408384)

There are 2 ways of of doing it that are common to use. One is the car controller waves you out and the other is you go when the car hits the ground (F1 style) in the latter case if someone is waving it is just to say the pit lane is clear. They don't usually drop the car when the fuel is still going in because it can cause it to spray out with the change in angle. Air jack guys falt or the person who may have told him to drop it.

Crash Test · 20 Oct 2002, 10:40 (Ref:408432)

I believe the responsibilities of the car controller are now etched in the rules... lets just say KRT won't be breaking them again

Valve Bounce · 21 Oct 2002, 06:52 (Ref:409035)

OK, I'm coming in very late on this argument. However, I must say that there is a difference between spilling fuel, and the driver driving off with the fuel hose still in the car and the rig could have been pulled down. The refueler was lifted off his feet by the hose, and the guy could have been incinerated if anything caught fire.
Basically, Murphy was as good as blackflagged and DQ'd for the race because his chances of doing any good after that was zilch. So the question is whether if a driver drives off with the fuel hose still attatched to the car causing spillage of fuel whether he should be DQ'd. If so, then spell it out in the rules so that every driver knows if he makes a mistake of such magnitude. Leaving it to stewards to make up the rules on the run is crazy, and leaves a very bad taste in the driver's mouth. This is not fair.
Brock's fuel spill was a totally different case, and happened when the fuel warmed up and spilled out the breather. This should never happen, and in such cases, the car should be DQ'd because it is obviously a design fault.
I personally take a very dim view to excessive fuel spillage, remembering what happened to Jos Verstappen.

Valve Bounce · 21 Oct 2002, 07:10 (Ref:409046)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack racer
There are 2 ways of of doing it that are common to use. One is the car controller waves you out and the other is you go when the car hits the ground (F1 style) in the latter case if someone is waving it is just to say the pit lane is clear. They don't usually drop the car when the fuel is still going in because it can cause it to spray out with the change in angle. Air jack guys falt or the person who may have told him to drop it.

This is incorrect. In F1, the car is off the jack long before the car can go. The car goes when the lollipop man waves lifts his lollipop. I don't know where you got the idea that someone waves to say the pit lane is clear. Perhaps there is a good reason for teams to have a lollipop man with the disc held right in front of the driver's face in V8's.

Amaroo Park · 21 Oct 2002, 07:14 (Ref:409048)

Quote:

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
I don't know where you got the idea that someone waves to say the pit lane is clear.

Not a new idea this usally it's done to stop cars running into each other in the pit lane. Every car is supposed to have a car controller. So it's not really a new idea

Valve Bounce · 21 Oct 2002, 09:19 (Ref:409075)

Quote:

Originally posted by colinbond
Not a new idea this usally it's done to stop cars running into each other in the pit lane. Every car is supposed to have a car controller. So it's not really a new idea

Well, I must admit I've never seen this done in F1 as part of the pit stop procedures. It certainly is new to me. :confused: The signal for go is given In F1 by the lollipop man, as I have stated. I have re-read Jack Racers post and he was clearly reffering to F1 for this waving off signal.

greg.n · 21 Oct 2002, 23:27 (Ref:409789)

Actually what happens in F1 is interesting. not only was there the verstappen incident of a few years back but there have been incidents with Ferrari (Schumacher)in the past and last year with Montoya also driving off and hitting the lollipop man. Cart has had incidents with people driving off and pulling down the fuel tank. Similarly in nascar fuel incidents and accidents in the pit lane with cars taking off and fuel cans still hooked on to the cars. In some of those incidents people were injured or hopitalised but in none of the above incidents were people penalised two laps or five minutes drive through's. Thwe action agaist murh was selective, deliberate and distinctly biased. I'm not suggesting no penalty but the penalty taken was excessive and vindicive in nature. It was unjust in it's severity and nature. A fifty thousand dollar fine would have been a far better way to resolve it, after all it was a mistake, not deliberate, and a result of the same practise many other teams use. From now on we can expect a five minute penalty for every team that pulls over a rig in the pit lane. If not then the ruling body has just demonstrated its total bias and inability to police its rules on a fair, just and equitable basis.

Flaggie · 22 Oct 2002, 04:04 (Ref:409890)

Distinctly biased... Oh please...

You cant compare other forms of racing to what happened at Bathurst cause all have different rules and regulations.

Change the record mate, it's starting to wear thin...

RaceTime · 22 Oct 2002, 04:29 (Ref:409896)

Bias - of course there is a bias in the penalty area.

Can you honestly say that if McDougall orFred Bloggs had done the same, that the penalty handed out would have been the same?

Flaggie · 22 Oct 2002, 05:01 (Ref:409901)

Yes... A dangerous situation is a dangerous situation regardless of who did it.

Throwing around accusations of bias can be dangerous if you cant prove it.

RaceTime · 22 Oct 2002, 05:53 (Ref:409930)

You know me better than that - what do you want? Video or audio tapes?

But I still maintain if it hadn't been Murphy the penalty would NOT have been the same.

Morris 1100 · 22 Oct 2002, 07:24 (Ref:409961)

What if it was Paul Romano?

Flaggie · 22 Oct 2002, 07:55 (Ref:409971)

We'll disagree on this one, RaceTime. I'm not going to sit here and argue semantics all day. He did the crime, he's done the more than fair time. If he's gonna benefit from his team's good work, then he has to cop their bad work as well. If that means it costs him a race, so what? Maybe then his team will learn not to balls it up next time.

Amaroo Park · 22 Oct 2002, 08:09 (Ref:409980)

Quote:

Originally posted by RaceTime
You know me better than that - what do you want? Video or audio tapes?

But I still maintain if it hadn't been Murphy the penalty would NOT have been the same.

What an absoult load of of ****

RaceTime · 22 Oct 2002, 08:27 (Ref:409995)

colinbond - your feelings are well known - pity that others opinions don;t correspond to yours - is that the problem?

But I forgot - you have been in race control when a steward was caught penalising a former fellow competitor because of a personal gripe he had (which was then overturned by the other stewards at the meeting); you have been in race control when a race director was caught on audio and video tape calling over the AVESCO radio that 'Skaife will jump the start' - stated just as the cars were moving off on their warm up lap?

So don't go pontificating to me that these things do NOT happen - they have happened and I have no reason to believe they won;t happen again because the same fools in place at these incidents are still there.

Amaroo Park · 22 Oct 2002, 09:19 (Ref:410037)

Quote:

Originally posted by RaceTime
colinbond - your feelings are well known - pity that others opinions don;t correspond to yours - is that the problem?

But I forgot - you have been in race control when a steward was caught penalising a former fellow competitor because of a personal gripe he had (which was then overturned by the other stewards at the meeting); you have been in race control when a race director was caught on audio and video tape calling over the AVESCO radio that 'Skaife will jump the start' - stated just as the cars were moving off on their warm up lap?

So don't go pontificating to me that these things do NOT happen - they have happened and I have no reason to believe they won;t happen again because the same fools in place at these incidents are still there.

RaceTime · 22 Oct 2002, 09:24 (Ref:410042)

What's the matter - if things like this happen do you just shut your eyes and hope they'll go away?

Crash Test · 22 Oct 2002, 09:28 (Ref:410049)

People people, play nicely

RaceTime · 22 Oct 2002, 09:38 (Ref:410051)

I am - where can we go to play dirty?

Amaroo Park · 22 Oct 2002, 09:39 (Ref:410052)

Quote:

Originally posted by RaceTime
What's the matter - if things like this happen do you just shut your eyes and hope they'll go away?

Not at all.

I am sorry if me not having spent a lot of time in Race Control deems me to be less knowlagable about motor sport than others.

I just see know point in getting upset about it.

RaceTime · 22 Oct 2002, 09:49 (Ref:410054)

Not getting upset - just stating facts - if you can't acept them don't try to discount them purely because you haven't seen them happen.

sevi · 23 Oct 2002, 00:08 (Ref:410797)

Not to mention that team manager is normally on the radio yelling "go, go, go'.
I agree RT in regards to the way some penalties are being handed out, I have seen wrong decisions made and later admitted to maybe jumping the gun, but there is nothing that can be done to reverse it.
But we can still add time on to a competitor after the race.

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