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View Poll Results: Where will the WEC US round 2017 be held?
Circuit of the Americas (early September? with PCW?) 17 36.96%
Indy - plenty of history and, more importantly, plenty of run off 6 13.04%
Montreal - close enough to the US border and would serve US N-E audience very well 8 17.39%
Road America - the only right choice but lots of 'upgrading' to do to please the FIA blue blazers 7 15.22%
no US (or Canadian) round at all - the WEC doesn't need a race there anyway... 6 13.04%
somewhere else in North or South America (Brazil???) 2 4.35%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 5 Feb 2017, 20:06 (Ref:3710215)   #251
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Starfish Primer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridStarfish Primer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridStarfish Primer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
According to Spanish media, AF Corse will test this week in Vallelunga the Bruni´s replacement. They mention Endurance-Info as source.

https://www.motor.es/noticias/ferrar...201733710.html

Candidates: Pier Guidi, Riberas, Vries and Molina. Very surprised to see there Molina and Vries.
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Old 5 Feb 2017, 23:04 (Ref:3710277)   #252
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Originally Posted by Starfish Primer View Post
According to Spanish media, AF Corse will test this week in Vallelunga the Bruni´s replacement. They mention Endurance-Info as source.

https://www.motor.es/noticias/ferrar...201733710.html

Candidates: Pier Guidi, Riberas, Vries and Molina. Very surprised to see there Molina and Vries.
That's an interesting list. Especially given all the single seater guys who attended the rookie test in GT machinery. I guess they can't have too many Brits in the team
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 00:09 (Ref:3710290)   #253
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Originally Posted by Ephaeton View Post
So as this was brought up in another thread, can anyone here defend the WEC retaining its FIA World Championship status for the P1(-H, as the -L get their own trophy)? And how they got to it in the first place?

The FIA 2017 International Sporting Code requires (2.4.1.c) :

(bolding by me)

This is a requirement that is clearly not fulfilled for this year's WEC P1 championship; and hasn't been ever yet (except if you count the Nissan year as having four manufacturers "on average over the entire season" with Le Mans counting for "four" races, I don't know).

So, why is there a P1 (manufacturer) FIA World Championship? What's the FIA's excuse for ignoring FIA regulations?
It's the FIA, and the ACO guys are buddy buddy with Jean Todt. They can do whatever they want with their own designations.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 00:12 (Ref:3710291)   #254
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Originally Posted by Ephaeton View Post
So as this was brought up in another thread, can anyone here defend the WEC retaining its FIA World Championship status for the P1(-H, as the -L get their own trophy)? And how they got to it in the first place?

The FIA 2017 International Sporting Code requires (2.4.1.c) :

(bolding by me)

This is a requirement that is clearly not fulfilled for this year's WEC P1 championship; and hasn't been ever yet (except if you count the Nissan year as having four manufacturers "on average over the entire season" with Le Mans counting for "four" races, I don't know).

So, why is there a P1 (manufacturer) FIA World Championship? What's the FIA's excuse for ignoring FIA regulations?
It's the FIA, and the ACO guys are buddy buddy with Jean Todt. They can do whatever they want with their own designations. Even F1 barely qualifies, since Honda only sells engines to one team. Without them, it'd be Mercedes-Benz, Ferrari and Renault, which it basically was until 2015 for a few years.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 00:33 (Ref:3710296)   #255
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Originally Posted by Ephaeton View Post
So as this was brought up in another thread, can anyone here defend the WEC retaining its FIA World Championship status for the P1(-H, as the -L get their own trophy)? And how they got to it in the first place?

The FIA 2017 International Sporting Code requires (2.4.1.c) :

(bolding by me)

This is a requirement that is clearly not fulfilled for this year's WEC P1 championship; and hasn't been ever yet (except if you count the Nissan year as having four manufacturers "on average over the entire season" with Le Mans counting for "four" races, I don't know).

So, why is there a P1 (manufacturer) FIA World Championship? What's the FIA's excuse for ignoring FIA regulations?
Nowhere in the code does it say road automobile manufacturer.

Audi, Toyota, Lola, HPD, Pescarolo
Audi, Toyota, Lola, (HPD)
Audi, Toyota, Porsche, Rebellion, (Lotus)
Audi, Toyota, Porsche, Rebellion, CLM, (Nissan)
Audi, Toyota, Porsche, Rebellion, CLM
Toyota, Porsche, CLM

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2.4.3.c The FIA may exceptionally grant a waiver for a cup,
trophy, challenge or series which can show long‐established
use of the word “World”.
The most blatant example of this is that the sporting code read the same way when the Champ Car World Series had a single spec car. It's not meant to be enforced in such a way that it strips the title from major well known championships.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 00:51 (Ref:3710302)   #256
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Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
It's the FIA, and the ACO guys are buddy buddy with Jean Todt. They can do whatever they want with their own designations. Even F1 barely qualifies, since Honda only sells engines to one team. Without them, it'd be Mercedes-Benz, Ferrari and Renault, which it basically was until 2015 for a few years.
I know you're bitter over Audi leaving, yet I'm just curious. Your F1 argument falls, as each of the teams are their own constructor, i.e., "automobile makes". The sporting code doesn't talk about "engines".

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Originally Posted by carbsmith View Post
Nowhere in the code does it say road automobile manufacturer.

Audi, Toyota, Lola, HPD, Pescarolo
Audi, Toyota, Lola, (HPD)
Audi, Toyota, Porsche, Rebellion, (Lotus)
Audi, Toyota, Porsche, Rebellion, CLM, (Nissan)
Audi, Toyota, Porsche, Rebellion, CLM
Toyota, Porsche, CLM

P1 privateers have the endurance trophy and are not eligible for the world championship. So your list becomes:
Audi, Toyota.
Audi, Toyota.
Audi, Toyota, Porsche.
Audi, Toyota, Porsche, (Nissan)
Audi, Toyota, Porsche.
Toyota, Porsche.

Furthermore, I believe your quoted 2.4.3.c doesn't apply, as the FIA World Endurance Championship (for P1) is neither a Trophy, cup, challenge nor series. There's the Privateer trophy, no cup, no challenge and the series is a multi-class, not limited to P1. IMHO none of these apply to the P1 championship.

You guys should know I'm a WEC fan. I'm just actually curious how they got it through the world council. I'm asking this question as I hope someone in, or close to being in, the know can actually answer it.

Last edited by Ephaeton; 6 Feb 2017 at 00:57.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 01:02 (Ref:3710306)   #257
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As I said, the FIA can do whatever they want with their own branding. How many sanctioning bodies break their own rules when it suits them?
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 01:08 (Ref:3710312)   #258
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As I said, the FIA can do whatever they want with their own branding. How many sanctioning bodies break their own rules when it suits them?
If they could do whatever they want, why would they establish their own regulations, just to ignore them? That would open them up to being susceptible to other series featuring one, two, three makes forcing the FIA to acknowledge their "world" "championship" status. "Corruption" or "Conspiracy" is just an easy short-cut IMHO.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 01:20 (Ref:3710314)   #259
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If the governments of the world can do it (get away with breaking their own rules and protocols), should we expect private organizations to do the same?

Besides, aside from giving the "World Championship" endorsement to the WEC, the FIA seem to by and large have a hands off relationship with the WEC. After all, all the lead guys who front the WEC are from the ACO, not the FIA.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 05:01 (Ref:3710363)   #260
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The privateers are still part of the FIA World Endurance Drivers' Championship. Actually so are the LMP2 drivers, which could be a bit of a cheap trick. But I couldn't tell you the mechanism for the validity of the Manufacturers' Championship.

Incidentally it turns out LMP2 could actually ostensibly form a World Championship, since there is 4 different cars. But I still don't think they'd consider it world level.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 06:44 (Ref:3710381)   #261
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Taken from a dsc article-

Quote:
“We have had many discussions over the last few days with all of the different teams in the paddock to see how we continue. We’d remind you that there are two manufacturers, so all of the conditions still apply to have a World Championship with everything going forward as it was planned before.
I thought that the "World Championship" status was awarded because all the manufacturer's entered, not just in lmp1?
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 07:54 (Ref:3710398)   #262
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Nyck de Vries has been dropped from the McLaren junior program and will test for AF Corse this week.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 13:11 (Ref:3710484)   #263
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Nyck de Vries has been dropped from the McLaren junior program and will test for AF Corse this week.
Harsh! I'd have given him a second season in GP3, they seem tricky to adapt to.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 13:56 (Ref:3710490)   #264
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Tockwith might bring a Ligier to P2 in selected rounds:

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/t...on-wec-effort/

but Sebring (IWSC) ruled out...
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 14:01 (Ref:3710492)   #265
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Harsh! I'd have given him a second season in GP3, they seem tricky to adapt to.
Leclerc did not seem to find it hard.............
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 21:43 (Ref:3710808)   #266
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Couple of key things in this interview with Gerard Neveu http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/n...e-and-prudent/. My favorite part was the mention of GT convergence. Seems like it's on the table still and it's not a shut down from the wec on the GT3 and GTE cars coming together.
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 20:14 (Ref:3711020)   #267
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The privateers are still part of the FIA World Endurance Drivers' Championship. Actually so are the LMP2 drivers, which could be a bit of a cheap trick. But I couldn't tell you the mechanism for the validity of the Manufacturers' Championship.

Incidentally it turns out LMP2 could actually ostensibly form a World Championship, since there is 4 different cars. But I still don't think they'd consider it world level.
Wait, isn't it just the World Endurance Championship, for all cars?

It's hypothetically possible that a GTE car could win the championship, I'd think. Amazingly improbable, not impossible.
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 20:25 (Ref:3711023)   #268
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Wait, isn't it just the World Endurance Championship, for all cars?

It's hypothetically possible that a GTE car could win the championship, I'd think. Amazingly improbable, not impossible.
I thought the drivers points standings was based on overall finish but that was it. Its kinda silly though. The only championship where I think points should be allocated based on overall finishing position (but is not currently doing that) is the IMSA North American Endurance Cup.
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 20:26 (Ref:3711025)   #269
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Nyck de Vries has been dropped from the McLaren junior program and will test for AF Corse this week.
Frankly I found De Vries pretty unimpressive when compared to his less experienced teammates Leclerc and Albon.

After all he took a step back from FR3.5 to GP3, and still got dominated by his own teammates.
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 21:14 (Ref:3711042)   #270
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Wait, isn't it just the World Endurance Championship, for all cars?

It's hypothetically possible that a GTE car could win the championship, I'd think. Amazingly improbable, not impossible.
Nah, the World Endurance Championship was for prototypes. The GT cars previously had the World Endurance Cup, which counted both Pro and Am in the overall driver ranking. This year it becomes two separate World Endurance Championships, as rather confusingly they keep casually using the term "GT World Championship" for what is apparently formally called the "FIA World Endurance Championship for GTE Drivers"

In 2015 the LMP2 champions finished 4 spots ahead of the LMP1 Private Team champions in the WEC though.
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Old 8 Feb 2017, 23:40 (Ref:3711062)   #271
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Nah, the World Endurance Championship was for prototypes. The GT cars previously had the World Endurance Cup, which counted both Pro and Am in the overall driver ranking. This year it becomes two separate World Endurance Championships, as rather confusingly they keep casually using the term "GT World Championship" for what is apparently formally called the "FIA World Endurance Championship for GTE Drivers"

In 2015 the LMP2 champions finished 4 spots ahead of the LMP1 Private Team champions in the WEC though.
Just for clarification: Per the regulations 11.2 the championships & trophies are:
  • LMP FIA World Endurance Drivers' Champion (all LMP1 & LMP2 drivers) (11.2.1; driver title)
  • LMP1 FIA World Endurance Manufacturers' Champion (LMP1-H, this is the one about whose legitimacy I've asked and haven't received a satisfying answer yet) (11.2.1; manufacturer title)
  • GT FIA World Endurance Drivers' Champion (all GTE-Pro & GTE-Am drivers) (11.2.1; driver title)
  • GT FIA World Endurance Manufacturers' Champion (GTE-Pro) (11.2.1; manufacturer title)
  • FIA Endurance Trophy awarded to the best private LMP1 team driver(s) only if at least three cars are entered for the season (11.2.3.1; driver title)
  • FIA Endurance Trophy awarded to the best LMP2 team (11.2.3.1; team title)
  • FIA Endurance Trophy awarded to the best LMGTE AM team (11.2.3.1; team title)
  • FIA Endurance Trophy awarded to the best LMGTE PRO team (11.2.3.1; team title)
  • FIA Endurance Trophy awarded to the best private LMP1 team, only if at least 3 cars are entered for the season (using only non-hybrid cars or ... details) (11.2.3.1; team title)
  • FIA Endurance Trophy awarded to the best LMP2 driver(s) (11.2.3.2; driver title)
  • FIA Endurance Trophy awarded to the best GTE Am driver(s) (11.2.3.2; driver title)

That's 2 world championship driver titles, 2 world championship manufacturer titles, 3 trophy driver titles and 4 trophy team titles (sum: 4 championships and 7 trophies, or: 11 titles) for 5 (P1-H P1-P P2 GTE-Pro GTE-Am) classes. 2017, obviously, won't have a P1 Endurance Trophy for neither team nor driver (so "only" 9 titles for 4 classes)

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Old 5 Mar 2017, 08:08 (Ref:3716600)   #272
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Audi refugee Oliver Jarvis joins Jackie Chan DC racing.

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...-squad-875450/
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Old 5 Mar 2017, 09:30 (Ref:3716621)   #273
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Audi refugee Oliver Jarvis joins Jackie Chan DC racing.

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...-squad-875450/
In the latest installment of the game we like to call......

Guess The 'Am' !!!

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/0...ng-effort.html

No Simon Dolan driving anywhere this year? That'll be a pity if so.
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Old 5 Mar 2017, 23:16 (Ref:3716750)   #274
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That 38 lineup is going to win the championship.
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Old 9 Mar 2017, 09:03 (Ref:3717449)   #275
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Porsche have announced their GT Drivers.

#91: Lietz & Mako
#92: Christensen & Estre
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