The Porsche vs Ferrari (or Badger vs brielga) thread

[MitchZ06]

"Tadge talking about the 6.2L LT1 V8 for C7. It will be direct injected, have active fuel management, variable valve timing, 11.5:1 compression ratio. Target is 450+ hp and 450 torque."

Game. Set. Match.
End of Ferrari's advantage.....

[arakis]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

"Tadge talking about the 6.2L LT1 V8 for C7. It will be direct injected, have active fuel management, variable valve timing, 11.5:1 compression ratio. Target is 450+ hp and 450 torque."

Game. Set. Match.
End of Ferrari's advantage.....

6.8l DFI with 450+hp, and the Ferrari 4.5l gets 570hp , oh and the C7 is scheduled for 2014, by when the 458 replacement is scheduled as well , so will see...

[MitchZ06]

6.2L if you cared to read...the LT1 will produce peak power at what? 6000-7000rpm? It takes that oh so glorious all hail Ferrari the gods of the car world 4.5L 9000rpm to make that 570hp. Don't forget to factor in the fact that the base engine won't be the most powerful to cater to the masses and it'll easily beat the 458 on the road for gas mileage. Just can't wait to see what the racing version (LT5.5R?) will do.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

6.2L if you cared to read...the LT1 will produce peak power at what? 6000-7000rpm? It takes that oh so glorious all hail Ferrari the gods of the car world 4.5L 9000rpm to make that 570hp. Don't forget to factor in the fact that the base engine won't be the most powerful to cater to the masses and it'll easily beat the 458 on the road for gas mileage. Just can't wait to see what the racing version (LT5.5R?) will do.

Like I said in 2014 ferrari comes out with the replacement......as for the engined 570hp is 570hp no matter the rpm

[MitchZ06]

My word...570hp at 8-9000rpm is useless vs 570hp at 5-6000rpm, understand? Not to mention higher revving engines have less torque (and what torque they have is higher up in the rev range) than a lower revving engine so I'm failing to see the advantages here other than blindness by Ferrari faith?

Going by where the engines produce the power in the rev range anyway they'd be quite even at about 6000rpm with the GM engine winning in the torque department.

Not much Ferrari can do with the engine in the 2014 replacement other than continue to make it bigger...

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by arakis

No one's stupid, I'm just flabbergasted that you can be so hypocritical. Your sticking to this Team only thing, like a fly to ****. It seems you have absolutely no problem with Porsche getting any help, even reinventing the BoP just for them, (adding iligal aero through BoP is a first)...

I mean seriosly, who gives a crap that ESM got a restrictor break, when they are being handed down to everyone left and right.... And no-one is complaining,since there are no other Ferraris in the ALMS....So why the heck are yo. Admit it, you're problem is that ferrari got a break in the ALMS, while you;re perfectly fine with porsche getting all the breaks and only winning the two races they did becasue of them...

Porsche get a break with an old car , and that break is for one and all , not team select , yes , I do take issue with that . Ferrari had a break last year with a width issue , I have no worries about that as it was for a manufacturer , and not a team .

No , Im not complaining that Ferrari got a break in the ALMS , Im complaining that If Risi return , they wont get the same break .

Ferrari didnt get a break in the ALMS ..... ESM did .

[arakis]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

My word...570hp at 8-9000rpm is useless vs 570hp at 5-6000rpm, understand? Not to mention higher revving engines have less torque (and what torque they have is higher up in the rev range) than a lower revving engine so I'm failing to see the advantages here other than blindness by Ferrari faith?

Going by where the engines produce the power in the rev range anyway they'd be quite even at about 6000rpm with the GM engine winning in the torque department.

Not much Ferrari can do with the engine in the 2014 replacement other than continue to make it bigger...

sorry mitxh get back to me when you can grasp basick concepts of physiscs sucha as power and torque.. Here is a hint, power is the same at all RPM speeds...a 450hp that acheaves the maximum power output at 6000RPM, haas the exact same power as a 450hp car that acheives it at 9000RPM

What is different is the torque...higher RPM cars have lower torque....
And this is still only talking about Engine RPMs, the only important thing is torque at the wheels and higher reving engined cars have higher gear ratios alowing it to match the higher engined torqued cars with low reving engiens...

Simplified example @100kmh in 3rd gear a 450hp car spins it;s engine at 6000rpM.
same example for the 9000RPM car.. the only diff is that the final drive (gearing) on the higher reving car is 150% of the lower reving car, giving it 50% more torque at the wheels, then what would be if it used the lower revving cars drivetrain...

Basicly it ends to a 570 HP engine is a stronger engine then the 450hp engine no matter how you look at it.....be it powering a car, powering a generator or what ever POWER is POWER....

and the 458 has a verry impresive torque curve, if your interested at all.. 540nm at 6000 RPM (which is 455hp btw)... and 80% of that torque (452Nm is available from 3250 RPM, which is 30% of its rev limit..

[MitchZ06]

Yeah look, without getting another infraction for just calling you a tool and missing what I'm saying (because you completely have, read it another 18 or so times and go read a book on mechanics) I'm just not going to bother. At all.

Plus, it's Mitch not mitxh. English bro...

[arakis]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Yeah look, without getting another infraction for just calling you a tool and missing what I'm saying (because you completely have, read it another 18 or so times and go read a book on mechanics) I'm just not going to bother. At all.

Plus, it's Mitch not mitxh. English bro...

Incidentally I've read more then one , and passed Mechanical Physics (Kinematics, Dinamics, and Statics) at my University.

[MitchZ06]

Then you should understand what I'm saying! Or is something being lost in translation?

BTW on the torque for the 458 vs the LT1 for C7, Americans talk in foot-pounds vs newtons so that 450 figure becomes 610Nm. The 458 4.5L V8 revving at 6000rpm like you've said producing roughly 455hp as you've said and 540Nm still gets beaten. You're not convincing me of the virtues of the 458 engine as the LT1 would absolutely win hands down if it were 570hp aswell...

[arakis]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Then you should understand what I'm saying! Or is something being lost in translation?

BTW on the torque for the 458 vs the LT1 for C7, Americans talk in foot-pounds vs newtons so that 450 figure becomes 610Nm. The 458 4.5L V8 revving at 6000rpm like you've said producing roughly 455hp as you've said and 540Nm still gets beaten. You're not convincing me of the virtues of the 458 engine as the LT1 would absolutely win hands down if it were 570hp aswell...

It would, but it aint, it's 450+hp, and can't posibly rev that high, it's the old high torque low hp (americans) vs Low torque high hp european engine discusion...

basicly when comparing engines (for racing) first thing is HP..if HP is comparable up to lets say 10% diffrence then the torque curve comes into play, and higher torque engies are better even if they have lower hp. but if the diffrence is as huge as 570 vs 450 the torque curve is meaning less, and the 458 engine is simply better under all circumstances...

This whole discussing is off topic, as both the C7 engine and 458 engine in racing trim are hp restricte.

In race trim the C7 engine has a torque advantage due to it's size, but it'll also have a fuel consumption disadvantage as well..

This an error in the rulebook. larger engines should have no advantage/or disadvantage in power/torque over smaller engines...

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by arakis

This whole discussing is off topic, as both the C7 engine and 458 engine in racing trim are hp restricte.

In race trim the C7 engine has a torque advantage due to it's size, but it'll also have a fuel consumption disadvantage as well..

This an error in the rulebook. larger engines should have no advantage/or disadvantage in power/torque over smaller engines...

Well than smaller engines shouldn't have a fuel consumption advantage.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Salamus

Well than smaller engines shouldn't have a fuel consumption advantage.

agreed/ no problem with that. But if the larger engines get more torque, the smaller engines should somehow be compensated, either through fuel consumption, or throuh higher HP/restrictors..

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by arakis

agreed/ no problem with that. But if the larger engines get more torque, the smaller engines should somehow be compensated, either through fuel consumption, or throuh higher HP/restrictors..

The problem is good fuel consumption saves you a pit stop and minutes. While more power might make you a little faster on the track, but not fast enough to overcome a whole pit stop. We saw this at PLM.

[Spyderman]

Sad News: Porsche and Flying Lizard end their partnership, Lizards say will be commited to sportscar racing and reveal 2013 plans soon.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Sad News: Porsche and Flying Lizard end their partnership, Lizards say will be commited to sportscar racing and reveal 2013 plans soon.

[porman]

Wow!!!!!

I need to look into this.

[porman]

From the Lizard site:

Flying Lizard Statement on Porsche 911 GT3 RSR Transition Announcement
October 26, 2012 – Seth Neiman, Flying Lizard team principal: "I and the entire Flying Lizard family would like to thank Porsche for their support and partnership over the last nine years. Together we have worked hard and have learned to rely on each other in critical moments, of which there have been many throughout our 100 races and multiple GT championships. Joerg Bergmeister, Patrick Long, Hartmut Kristen, Jens Walther, Uwe Brettel, Alwin Springer, Roland Kussmaul, Hans-Georg Breuer, Wolf Henzler, Patrick Pilet, Marc Lieb and many others at Porsche get our special thanks, along with the numerous Porsche employees and affiliates in Germany, Atlanta and Southern California who have been an integral part of our team, and with whom we have become close friends. Flying Lizard remains committed to sports car racing, and we look forward to announcing details of our 2013 racing program later this year."

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Sad News: Porsche and Flying Lizard end their partnership, Lizards say will be commited to sportscar racing and reveal 2013 plans soon.

Yeah that is sad (and thats coming from a fan of the Prancing Horse-we really dont need a strong Porsche team like that leaving the ranks).

Im quite surprised tbh. When I think Flying Lizards I instantly think of Porsche RSR and for it to be any different just feels weird.

So where to from here for The Admiral and his team? Im not going to even suggest they have jumped the fence to a pair of 458s

[The Badger]

Wow ..... dont know what to make of this !!!

McLaren ..... perhaps ?

[rich07]

2013 is a bit early for McLaren and I really cant see them running a pair of Ferraris.

LMP?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by rich07

So where to from here for The Admiral and his team? Im not going to even suggest they have jumped the fence to a pair of 458s

If they can get the same waiver as ESM , they would be stupid not to !!!

What else is there thats showing decent form . Im sure the McLaren will hit the track running , Viper isnt up to it yet , Corvette I cant see .

So , looks like there will be only 2 Porsches in ALMS next year , Falken and Miller .

This to be honest doesnt surprise me ..... its taken way too long for Porsche to unvail their new car .

What about Lizards Oreca/Nissan P2 ?

Nothing says they have to stay with GTE .

[NightStalk3r]

Seth was simply replying to Porsche's announcement that they are ending development of the 997 RSR, i still think they will be back with a 997 RSR as a customer next year and back as a works supported outfit with a 991 in 2014.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

Seth was simply replying to Porsche's announcement that they are ending development of the 997 RSR, i still think they will be back with a 997 RSR as a customer next year and back as a works supported outfit with a 991 in 2014.

I hope your right , cuz I find it hard to imagine Lizards with anything but a Porsche .

[airbusA346]

Porsche Press Release