[Race] A Korean GP after all?!

[the sniper]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

You never though, they could scrabble around for a replacement round (last time we had a race cancellation we got an extra race, but in Jerez) - Motegi will already have hosted the Japanese bike GP ...

How about Donington Park? Oh, hang on...

Or, being slightly more serious, Imola? I think the 'new' circuit is grade 1T, so it's not far off GP standard. Paul Ricard would be a nice one off too, it'd be the only way to get the place back on the F1 calendar.

I don't think a replacement will be sought, but it's nice to dream.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Surely any race is better than none at all?

I don't like some of the things the Ecclestone Empire has done to F1, like GPs held in countries with no racing heritage when France, for example, the country that gave us Grand Prix racing, no longer has a GP because it doesn't meet with Bernie's "standards" and won't pay him what he wants.

Who ever nicknamed him the Extortionist got that one right.

[Yannick]

With the CVC buyout debt still not fully repaid, I cannot think of any cheapo replacement deal if the Korean GP were not to happen. Yet, you never know if Losail might have the budget this year to jump at the chance.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I don't like some of the things the Ecclestone Empire has done to F1, like GPs held in countries with no racing heritage when France, for example, the country that gave us Grand Prix racing, no longer has a GP because it doesn't meet with Bernie's "standards" and won't pay him what he wants.

Who ever nicknamed him the Extortionist got that one right.

Well of course countries will never get a racing heritage unless races are held there, but I do take you point about France that situation is completely ridiculous...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Well of course countries will never get a racing heritage unless races are held there, but I do take you point about France that situation is completely ridiculous...

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with promoting F1 world wide but the business with France is as you say completely ridiculous.

The whole Donnington fiasco came about because Silverstone wouldn't play ball with Bernie. We all know sadly what happened and Silverstone still has the GP, though it would have been a PR disaster for Bernie not to have had a British GP in 2010, as it is the 50th anniversary of F1.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Well of course countries will never get a racing heritage unless races are held there, but I do take you point about France that situation is completely ridiculous...

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with promoting F1 world wide but the business with France is as you say completely ridiculous.

The whole Donnington fiasco came about because Silverstone wouldn't play ball with Bernie. We all know sadly what happened and Silverstone still has the GP, though it would have been a PR disaster for Bernie not to have had a British GP in 2010, as it is the 60th anniversary of F1.

[duke_toaster]

You need to promote it worldwide in large, high-value markets that could get F1. In other words, that's the US, not irrelevant oil rich countries (Bahrain), or areas that don't give a toss about motorsport (China). Or just to go to countries with large fan bases. The countries that ought to be added to the calendar are in this order IMO - the USA, France and Finland.

The first has somewhat of a fanbase and is very large, and the latter two have the fanbases already there. India and China are probably not good ideas. To be honest, even if Narain Kartikeyan were to have won GP, he would be unheard of in India. The sporting landscape (bearing in mind ticket prices are very low when you see these crazy crowd figures at IPL matches) is filled by cricket. Football's having trouble there, for Pete's sake!

UAE and Bahrain have the money to spend on sanctioning fees I suppose. Singapore is in the same boat, but have an above average street circuit. Singapore should be considered for dropping for other reasons. Turkey are looking to pull the plug, it's a shame that they have a reasonable (It's not up there with Suzuka or Thruxton, but it's better than most) circuit, and then get attendances that seem smaller than BTCC crowds (I imagine they would be, assuming you only counted people that lived there going).

[dsg]

As I watch the overwhelming majority of GPs on TV I don't really care where they are held as long as the circuits are interesting and hopefully produce good racing. As it turns out some of the more recent circuits leave something to be desired in this respect and the classic tracks still have a place.

Saying countries don't deserve races because they don't have a racing culture is elitist crap. Given the opportunity they may develop one.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by dsg

Saying countries don't deserve races because they don't have a racing culture is elitist crap. Given the opportunity they may develop one.

I don't think it's anything to do with being elitist. Take the Turkish GP. It's now under threat and because they have no racing heritage what happens to the track? Does Turkey have any home grown series that could benefit from racing there and keep the track viable?

If anyone is being elitist it's Ecclestone, offering countries to join the ranks of prestigeous GP holders and when they don't come up to scratch and pay him his fee, he threatens to take it away. Buyer be ware, I say.

It will be interesting to see what happens when one of the Gulf-State GPs come's up for renewel and they don't want to pay Bernie the increased fee.

[dsg]

But the Turkish GP did come up to scratch. 66.34% on this forum rated it 8 or better out of 10. Ecclestone is not being elitist, ultra-capitalistic yes, but not elitist. Anyone who has the money can buy a race.

Is it the circuit design or where it is in the world that contributes to a good race?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by dsg

But the Turkish GP did come up to scratch. 66.34% on this forum rated it 8 or better out of 10. Ecclestone is not being elitist, ultra-capitalistic yes, but not elitist. Anyone who has the money can buy a race.

Is it the circuit design or where it is in the world that contributes to a good race?

I didn't say the track coming up to scratch regarding this forum, I said:

"If anyone is being elitist it's Ecclestone, offering countries to join the ranks of prestigeous GP holders and when they don't come up to scratch and pay him his fee, he threatens to take it away."

As far as anyone who has the money can buy a race is concerned, that's pure elitism. In other words If you don't have the money you can't join the club.

It's a mixture of track design and country. Take Monaco, the most difficult track to overtake on but the setting's amazing. Take Turkey a track that drivers like but where's the crowd? Take Silverstone, it's pretty much got it all, a good crowd and a track the drivers like.

[gttouring]

yes good circuit design is paramount to the F1 fan base- heritage is also a key reason for a circuits' or races appeal (bahrain is an awful circuit IMHO- the Yaz marina is an example of how it should be done when you have the cash- visually stunning if a little flat) but if Korean Gp is a cancel no loss really never happened no plans shown and we have many many circuits FIA approved and great fan base at the track and good racing on TV as well. France...i here that country has a track or two, a Scandinavian race would be hugely welcomed in that portion of the world- so many tracks in Italy, and the whole of Europe as well. never mind a swing perhaps through Kyalami- or where is that India track any way? and the load of crazy tracks in South America (Argentina anyone?) cripes the world is full of interesting responsible places ready for this- Korean GP organizers couldn't get A1 GP or Champcar tracks ready in time the F1 standards are a bit stiffer i think, what is the circuit design even?

[Quintin03]

Maybe you don't know a thing about the track but it's known to others. Here you can find some of it. Who'd even have thought about consulting the site of the designer? Mind you the track has changed slightly. The first corner of the permanent circuit has turned into a complex of hairpins switching directions and the first corner of the track has been turned into a right angle deal. It looks to me like one of the est recent circuits. Best without serious contenders is still best!

[dsg]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It's a mixture of track design and country. Take Monaco, the most difficult track to overtake on but the setting's amazing. Take Turkey a track that drivers like but where's the crowd? Take Silverstone, it's pretty much got it all, a good crowd and a track the drivers like.

This is what I was getting at, however I do believe track design/layout still trumps location. Monaco would still be amazing to watch if there were no spectators at the track or the city was magically moved to India. The same with principle with Silverstone.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by dsg

This is what I was getting at, however I do believe track design/layout still trumps location. Monaco would still be amazing to watch if there were no spectators at the track or the city was magically moved to India. The same with principle with Silverstone.

What? Monaco would still amazing and transported to India and with no spectators?

Monaco is Monaco because of what it is.

My friend, you need to get out more and stop watching races on TV.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Monaco would still amazing and transported to India and with no spectators?

Monaco is Monaco because of what it is.

So define what in your opinion makes Monaco amazing?

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

My friend, you need to get out more and stop watching races on TV.

Would love to. I'll send you my bank account details so you can send me the money.

Over the last 10 years I have attended 5 F1 races. 4 in Melbourne and 1 in Malaysia. Haven't been to any in the last couple of years as I can no longer justify the cost. How about you?

Back on topic my attendance does not change the fact that the circuit is more important and/or influential than the nationality or number of people sitting next to it.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by dsg

So define what in your opinion makes Monaco amazing? .

What makes Monaco amazing is the location and history.

As for going to race venues, I go to Le Mans pretty much every year. That race couldn't taking place anywhere else; the location, the race, the fairground, it's all part of it.

Originally Posted by dsg

Back on topic my attendance does not change the fact that the circuit is more important and/or influential than the nationality or number of people sitting next to it.

So you'd sooner watch a good race, void of spectators and country? Try IndyCar and you're almost there; it's not all ovals

[dsg]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

So you'd sooner watch a good race, void of spectators and country?

Yep.

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Try IndyCar and you're almost there; it's not all ovals

I do, but F1 tends to have the better drivers, cars and tracks. IMO

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by dsg

Yep.

I do, but F1 tends to have the better drivers, cars and tracks. IMO

Agree about the cars, as for tracks at least there are no Tilkedromes in Indy.

As for your preferring to watch a race void of spectators etc, why not get yourself a copy of rFactor and create your own series? If you feel so inclined you can even create your own tracks; problem solved.

[Marbot]

Well, if N.Korea do start firing nuclear missiles at S.Korea, I don't think that we need to worry too much about whether or not the race is still on.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Well, if N.Korea do start firing nuclear missiles at S.Korea, I don't think that we need to worry too much about whether or not the race is still on.

Instead we'd better worry about the possibility of WW3.

[dyewat808]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Agree about the cars, as for tracks at least there are no Tilkedromes in Indy.

As for your preferring to watch a race void of spectators etc, why not get yourself a copy of rFactor and create your own series? If you feel so inclined you can even create your own tracks; problem solved.

The funny thing is that I see better racing in the virtual world than in real-life, so that isn't a bad idea!

Dunno what dsg will think of that though

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by dyewat808

The funny thing is that I see better racing in the virtual world than in real-life, so that isn't a bad idea!

Dunno what dsg will think of that though

I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

I prefer reality. It's less predictable.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by dsg

I prefer reality. It's less predictable.

The human element.