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Old 16 Apr 2018, 05:09 (Ref:3815947)   #76
Trev Campbell
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Trev Campbell should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTrev Campbell should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It looks like they have put down a fair bit of that spray on grass, it just hasn't grown yet. It will all take time I suppose, But some trees would be a good idea.
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Old 16 Apr 2018, 06:00 (Ref:3815952)   #77
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chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Early days but from the Shannon's National coverage the Bend is probably the 4th most interesting track in South Australia.......
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Old 16 Apr 2018, 10:17 (Ref:3815981)   #78
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Early days but from the Shannon's National coverage the Bend is probably the 4th most interesting track in South Australia.......
And 1 to 3 are
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Old 16 Apr 2018, 11:07 (Ref:3815984)   #79
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I think it's harsh to be knocking such a significant investment in our sport after it has just been completed. No doubt there'll be grass, no doubt there'll be trees and no doubt once the tarmac gets more use and teams/drivers get their head around it, the circuit will offer more racing opportunities than the dust-covered version did on the weekend.

To expect such a big project to be perfect right off the bat is completely unrealistic.
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Old 16 Apr 2018, 11:13 (Ref:3815985)   #80
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chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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And 1 to 3 are
Adelaide - classic street circuit which is a real test of driver skill. Mistakes have consequences.

AIR - One of the great first corners in the country with the right hander ever tightening. Seen of many great overtakes. And the annoying little left hander on to the banking. No car is ever properly set up for that corner.

Mallala - long straights followed by slow corners. Traction out of the slow corners is at a premium plus the tricky section left hander followed by the right that has drivers often being hungry of the entrance and running out track on the exit.


Of course the facilities at the Bend surpass all three but why build another Eastern Creek?
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Old 16 Apr 2018, 11:44 (Ref:3815988)   #81
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Adelaide - classic street circuit which is a real test of driver skill. Mistakes have consequences.

AIR - One of the great first corners in the country with the right hander ever tightening. Seen of many great overtakes. And the annoying little left hander on to the banking. No car is ever properly set up for that corner.

Mallala - long straights followed by slow corners. Traction out of the slow corners is at a premium plus the tricky section left hander followed by the right that has drivers often being hungry of the entrance and running out track on the exit.


Of course the facilities at the Bend surpass all three but why build another Eastern Creek?
Hard to argue with the order there.

Shame AIR isn't active
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Old 16 Apr 2018, 12:29 (Ref:3815995)   #82
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Cool.

Pony up the squillions of dollars, and build your own.
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Old 16 Apr 2018, 22:58 (Ref:3816068)   #83
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chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Cool.

Pony up the squillions of dollars, and build your own.
I completely understand why they have gone the way they have.

And it will prove to be a fantastic facility - but will the track provide the kind of racing we see at Symmons Plains or Wanneroo example...will we talk about parts of the Bend like we talk about the esses at Sandown, turn 8 at Adelaide, the hairpin at Symmons, the abrasive surface at Wanneroo..... a great facility......an iconic race track - time will tell.
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Old 16 Apr 2018, 23:40 (Ref:3816073)   #84
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Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What FIA grade is TB?
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Old 16 Apr 2018, 23:42 (Ref:3816074)   #85
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Or to put it another way, I consider the change in the IMSA SCC calendar from 2017 to 2018 to be a positive one. That is, Austin is out, and Mid Ohio is back.

And for another example that is even more analogous to The Bend, I don't hear anybody over here clamoring for IMSA to go back to Miller. The ALMS and GA each tried both the 4.486-mile and 3.048-mile layouts of that facility, and they were gone after no more than five seasons.

(And in case someone tries to throw the Bahrain excuse at me, here are four good circuits in the desert or sand dunes: Willow Springs, Bridgehampton, Riverside, and Stardust.)

As for FIA status of The Bend, I suspect they were going for Grade 2.
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Old 17 Apr 2018, 00:10 (Ref:3816078)   #86
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What FIA grade is TB?
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Which track will Supercars be racing on?
Supercars will compete on the 4.9 kilometre International Circuit with 18 turns and aggregate elevation change of 55 metres. The Bend racing circuit is designed to comply with the latest FIA Category 2 standards. The race direction is clockwise.
FAQs

Im unaware if it has achieved this standard at this point though
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Old 17 Apr 2018, 09:01 (Ref:3816128)   #87
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I completely understand why they have gone the way they have.

And it will prove to be a fantastic facility - but will the track provide the kind of racing we see at Symmons Plains or Wanneroo example...will we talk about parts of the Bend like we talk about the esses at Sandown, turn 8 at Adelaide, the hairpin at Symmons, the abrasive surface at Wanneroo..... a great facility......an iconic race track - time will tell.
That's for the future to determine.

The place will create its own history, just like Mt Panorama has, and Sandown, etc.
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Old 17 Apr 2018, 20:17 (Ref:3816237)   #88
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Even the comparison to Sandown is a stretch. Sandown is simple, and though not totally flat, doesn't have massive elevation changes. But even so, the proximity of the barriers and the general surroundings gives you a sense of speed that you don't reliably get from the camera shots around The Bend.

Hopefully, they find some better camera positions by the time the Supercars round comes along, so they can provide that perspective more effectively than for the GT race. I'm about 20 laps in, and most of the back side of the course just meanders around and lacks distinct landmarks, so I'm still frequently wondering when they switch shots just where around the course I'm looking.

That's another thing about Sandown, it's simple, and it's fairly short, but still long enough, like Portland here in the States. Sandown is 1.929 miles, while even that shorter version of The Bend is 3.076 miles; there's simply a lot more space that has to be filled in order to keep the senses occupied.

And the only other active Australian circuit that I'd put in that very top echelon with Bathurst is Phillip Island.

I'm glad I don't get distracted by the fancy facilities. For instance, Silverstone may be considered the home of British motorsport, but as far as the track layout itself and how enthralling it is to watch a race, I'd rate it fifth at best, behind Brands Hatch GP, Oulton Park Int'l, Donington Park GP, and Thruxton.
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Old 17 Apr 2018, 21:33 (Ref:3816247)   #89
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V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Adelaide - classic street circuit which is a real test of driver skill. Mistakes have consequences.

AIR - One of the great first corners in the country with the right hander ever tightening. Seen of many great overtakes. And the annoying little left hander on to the banking. No car is ever properly set up for that corner.

Mallala - long straights followed by slow corners. Traction out of the slow corners is at a premium plus the tricky section left hander followed by the right that has drivers often being hungry of the entrance and running out track on the exit.

Of course the facilities at the Bend surpass all three but why build another Eastern Creek?
Eastern Creek is a proper international Mugello/Catalunya style international circuit, as is the Bend. You could hold the Australian Grand Prix at the Bend, although Phillip Island is pretty good...

Mallala and AIR are pokey little 2km club tracks -- which both have the walls WAY too close for the comfort of people doing track days in their bog standard 1987 Toyota MR2 road car with zero safety features.

"Mallala - long straights followed by slow corners. " Apart from the small esses section (where you drive directly towards a concrete wall which is very disconcerting), Mallala doesn't flow at all. In that way it is not a fun circuit at all. It's just accelerate flat out, brake hard, repeat over and over again. :/

Nothing wrong with being small and tight club tracks with walls in close proximity. But that's what they are.

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Of course the facilities at the Bend surpass all three but why build another Eastern Creek?
Eastern Creek is pretty much a gold standard, fast flowing open international circuit like Catalunya, Mugello, Portimao, Silverstone etc. There is a limit to how sophisticated your circuit can be when it is built on flat terrain.

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 17 Apr 2018 at 21:39.
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Old 17 Apr 2018, 21:42 (Ref:3816249)   #90
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but will the track provide the kind of racing we see at Symmons Plains or Wanneroo example...
These are pokey little club tracks!?

Put it this way, when you load up Rfactor or Project Cars, do you really load up Symmons Plains in preference to Spa Francochamps or Mount Panorama, Bathurst!?

You don't seem to be thinking of this from the point of view of the owner-drivers (the Shahins who want a fun track to drive their Lamborghinis and Porsches) rather than from the point of view of a spectator who would seemingly be most happy at their local dirt circle track where they can see all the action...
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Old 17 Apr 2018, 21:43 (Ref:3816250)   #91
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Shame AIR isn't active
AIR has a severe lack of runoff areas...
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Old 17 Apr 2018, 21:45 (Ref:3816251)   #92
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That's another thing about Sandown, it's simple, and it's fairly short, but still long enough, like Portland here in the States. Sandown is 1.929 miles, while even that shorter version of The Bend is 3.076 miles; there's simply a lot more space that has to be filled in order to keep the senses occupied.
That's not the point. Close walls = unsafe. Sandown does have a fast chicane on it, unfortunately the fast chicane has no run-off area and is wildly unsafe. :/

Long fast corners = more fun to drive in fancy GT3 cars (the target audience of the circuit being wealthy enthusiasts with GT3 cars), with lots of run of space for peace of mind should you get it wrong, compared to tight point and squirt corners.

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Old 17 Apr 2018, 21:50 (Ref:3816252)   #93
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I'd rate it fifth at best, behind Brands Hatch GP, Oulton Park Int'l, Donington Park GP, and Thruxton.
Why are you thinking of it from the point of view of a spectator rather than a driver? Why not ask which circuit would you want to take your Mustang GT350 to for a track day?

A fast, flowing circuit where you can really enjoy your Mustang GT350R, much like Barber: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEfRr7GTHmY I don't know what driving nirvana is, but a GT350R around Barber Motorsports Park has to be darned close.

Or some pokey club circuit...

No question Barber is a superior circuit to the Bend, but unfortunately where they have built the Bend is flat, so it is what it is.

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Old 17 Apr 2018, 22:07 (Ref:3816256)   #94
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Even the comparison to Sandown is a stretch. Sandown is simple, and though not totally flat, doesn't have massive elevation changes. But even so, the proximity of the barriers and the general surroundings gives you a sense of speed that you don't reliably get from the camera shots around The Bend.

Hopefully, they find some better camera positions by the time the Supercars round comes along, so they can provide that perspective more effectively than for the GT race. I'm about 20 laps in, and most of the back side of the course just meanders around and lacks distinct landmarks, so I'm still frequently wondering when they switch shots just where around the course I'm looking.

That's another thing about Sandown, it's simple, and it's fairly short, but still long enough, like Portland here in the States. Sandown is 1.929 miles, while even that shorter version of The Bend is 3.076 miles; there's simply a lot more space that has to be filled in order to keep the senses occupied.

And the only other active Australian circuit that I'd put in that very top echelon with Bathurst is Phillip Island.

I'm glad I don't get distracted by the fancy facilities. For instance, Silverstone may be considered the home of British motorsport, but as far as the track layout itself and how enthralling it is to watch a race, I'd rate it fifth at best, behind Brands Hatch GP, Oulton Park Int'l, Donington Park GP, and Thruxton.
Sandown was mentioned as an example, not a comparison.
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Old 17 Apr 2018, 23:16 (Ref:3816270)   #95
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Didn't make it across but I thought it looked great over the internet coverage

As for best tracks in Australia - Webber said a few years back F1 wouldn't work @ PI - imagine coming over at Lukey Heights @ over 250km across grass into a tyre barrier
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Old 18 Apr 2018, 01:37 (Ref:3816280)   #96
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Very well, UN.

V8F, no doubt the rents at those "higher-standard" tracks are more expensive, so the clubbies and track-dayers are more likely to be stuck running on the those tight, slower, club circuits with more limited run-offs anyway, places like Mallala or Blackhawk Farms. So in practical terms, your argument is a fallacy in many cases.

No, unless you have significant downforce, Barber isn't nearly as quick or exciting as the Indy Cars make it look.

You just poked a hole in your own argument, saying Barber is "superior" to The Bend, when the former is only 2.3 miles and the latter is 3.076 miles.

As for the rest of the comments, I have the spreadsheets to show that that's bunk. Even with my listings for National GT series needing a bit of a update, I have what I need.

The broadcast stated that the pole on the Int'l Circuit at The Bend was a 1:48.4, which translates to 102.155 mph around the 3.076-mile layout.

So, here's a listing, and keep in mind, GT3 cars have only gotten faster in the last few to several years.

Other "not top-line" GT3 circuits with comparable or highers speeds to The Bend:
Brands Hatch GP- 2.623 miles, 1:22.891, 113.918 mph (2017)
Donington Park GP- 2.500 miles, 1:27.746, 102.569 mph (2012)
Guapore- 1.920 miles, 1:04.762, 106.729 mph (2012)
Lime Rock Park- 1.500 miles, 51.271, 105.323 mph (2013)
Oulton Park Int'l- 2.792 miles, 1:34.044, 106.878 mph (2014)
Road Atlanta- 2.540 miles, 1:20.031, 114.256 mph (2017)
Sportsland Sugo- 2.302 miles, 1:20.341, 103.150 mph (2013)
Thruxton- 2.356 miles, 1:15.618, 112.164 mph (2007)

So, looking at average speed versus lap length, it becomes clear which circuits do or don't have an abundance of fast, flowing, sweeping corners. And plenty of "club" circuits, especially when compared to new F1 constructs, are actually faster and much more "open" in their layouts.

GroupA, the F1 cars are sturdy enough to take such a hit. If they weren't, the prospect of nailing the wall at the chicane after coming out of the tunnel at Monaco doing 290km/h would be totally unacceptable; another Wendlinger crash should have a much better end result now than it did in 1994. And a tire wall would make that sort of thing a much kinder impact too.

Besides that, there's a large gravel trap outside of Lukey Heights, and if you go off such that you miss it, your trajectory will take you past the wall without hitting it anyway. Gravel traps, particularly when the right material is used, and grading is done properly, are perfectly capable of arresting out-of-control cars, even in the wet.

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Old 18 Apr 2018, 04:24 (Ref:3816290)   #97
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AIR has a severe lack of runoff areas...
As do 90% of street tracks, doesn't stop people racing at them!
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Old 18 Apr 2018, 06:33 (Ref:3816298)   #98
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As do 90% of street tracks, doesn't stop people racing at them!
It does, but if it was my amateur class car^ I would rather not! Bathurst can be the exception, because it's Bathust after all.

^ Correct me if I am wrong, hasn't there have been a pileup at nearly every single Toyota 86 meeting held at a street race for example?

I guess lack of self-preservation instincts is important for " racing driver ", I suppose... lol
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Old 2 May 2018, 04:16 (Ref:3818785)   #99
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One objective measure of the interest in a race meeting is the number of views on the Natsoft race results service.

It is interesting that the recent first meeting at The Bend had 37,735 views.

This is more than the recent Supercars meeting at Philip Island , which had 36,123 views.

Perhaps a lot of people wanted to see what the Bend lap times were, and whether it favoured big or small cars.

But it is very interesting that a Shannon's National meeting would outscore a much more hyped Supercars meeting.
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Old 2 May 2018, 04:20 (Ref:3818786)   #100
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One objective measure of the interest in a race meeting is the number of views on the Natsoft race results service.

It is interesting that the recent first meeting at The Bend had 37,735 views.

This is more than the recent Supercars meeting at Philip Island , which had 36,123 views.

Perhaps a lot of people wanted to see what the Bend lap times were, and whether it favoured big or small cars.

But it is very interesting that a Shannon's National meeting would outscore a much more hyped Supercars meeting.
maybe once, but now the supercars site gives up to date scoring from its site as quick as natsoft does, where as shannons series is pretty slow with that
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