end of GTE/GT2 classs?

[arakis]

these are rummors but they are now seriosly bugging me.

with the rummord LMS split form ILMC and them using the gt3 class insted of GTE/GT2, and now rummored ALMS split form ACO to form a more open GT class the ACO GTE/GT2 class would be dead. Unless ILMC only racing satisfies GTE manufacturers the class is doomed...

[AGD]

Huh?

The LMS will split from the WEC, that is almost assured at this point. However, GT3 is not replacing GTE. GTE will still be there and will be joined by Porsche and Ferrari GTC cars. We'll see what happens next year, but many of the LMS (and ALMS for that matter) GTE-Pro teams did not join the ILMC. LMS GTE could still be strong next year, although those teams may need to do additional racing as the LMS calendar won't be very long.

I don't think GTE/GT2 is going away from the ALMS either. It may in time, but I don't think anything is on the verge of happening.

[Marcel ten Caat]

Patrick Peter made it pretty clear at Imola in a conversation we had with him that he was not considering GT3 but GTC (Porsche Cup and Ferrari Challenge) to join.

The GTE/GT2 cars could still be used in the GTE Pro and GTE Am categories and as well as in series like GT Open and various national championships. In fact there is interest from some teams to run GT2 Corvettes in the FIA GT World Championship - and other GT2 cars could be used there as well.

So far the prototypes seem to be the major problem for the regional series, not the world championship. The GT cars are no problem at all.

[arakis]

sorry, I must have misinterpreted some rumors...

[Speed-King]

I don't think the end of GTE is near (at least not in the short term) but we have probably seen the peak as far as diversity is concerned in the last few seasons... I don't think there will ever be a great number of Vettes out there and without them and the Bimmers it will probably be back to Porsche vs Ferrari with some hobby projects on the back end of the grid.

And another thing: The market for GTE-cars is certainly not getting any bigger... while Spanish and Italian GT still allow them, the numbers have really dwindled lately, so that really leaves LMS, ALMS and International GT-Open, if ALMS does indeed open up there formula GTE-sales to North America would probably also diminish. I am wondering how many cars Porsche or Michelotto have to sell to turn a profit...

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by arakis

sorry, I must have misinterpreted some rumors...

Which is why rumours are a cluster ****

[JAG]

Two GTE projects on the horizon are Mclaren and Lexus, these are potentially the most significant additions since Ferrari challenged Porsche, given they are customer focused.

Any given year there will be twenty plus GT cars at Le Mans, the GTE-Pro/Am set-up ensures a market for the latest kit and second hand cars.

GT3 does have diversity, but costs are rocketing with even recent additions like the R8 struggling.

[Marcel ten Caat]

Or as a manufacturer recently put it...

When the McLaren is 100% ready to go after testing by the factory all other cars will be rendered useless unless improved big time. Until the next GT3 car is raced, which will then make the McLaren out-of-date and more investments required.

And so GT3 will become very expensive soon...

[arakis]

to much hype is there around the Mclaren road car as well but it turned out to be a flop agains the 458, same will be true for the race car...

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by arakis

to much hype is there around the Mclaren road car as well but it turned out to be a flop agains the 458, same will be true for the race car...

who? what? when? where? why? and how?

the Mclaren mp4-12c is faster than the ferrari stock(proably due to more hp).Who told you it flopped? here you go again lol.

[MitchZ06]

Some people just aren't happy its faster than a Ferrari....it did get pole in the British GT race at Spa so its obviously a very quick car, no doubt it'll get hamstrung by BoP but atleast its fast atm.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Some people just aren't happy its faster than a Ferrari....it did get pole in the British GT race at Spa so its obviously a very quick car, no doubt it'll get hamstrung by BoP but atleast its fast atm.

you are mixing up gt3 and GTE, GT3 is much more a driver based class then car based, also it alwoes a lot more room to the manufacturer

Audiracer, in 5/6 test by british mags the Ferrari was picked as being the better car, it was run in direct competition against the ferrari in all the tests and on 3/3 tracks the ferrari was faster, only on the top gear show the McLaren somehow mistiriusly found 3s over the ferrari. (fifth gear tested it on the same track and ferrari was 0.1s faster)

BTW, 90% of the technology McLaredn is based of is iligal in GTE racing..

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by arakis

you are mixing up gt3 and GTE, GT3 is much more a driver based class then car based, also it alwoes a lot more room to the manufacturer

Audiracer, in 5/6 test by british mags the Ferrari was picked as being the better car, it was run in direct competition against the ferrari in all the tests and on 3/3 tracks the ferrari was faster, only on the top gear show the McLaren somehow mistiriusly found 3s over the ferrari. (fifth gear tested it on the same track and ferrari was 0.1s faster)

BTW, 90% of the technology McLaredn is based of is iligal in GTE racing..

Don't forget McLaren is a pre-series car, is not yet the 100% definite car. It will receive a new exhaust, before the first car will be delivered. I think 458 and MP4-12C are quite on the same level, no great differences. But racing cars are just another story...
I like much more Ferrari than McLaren, but I would not underestimate this car.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by arakis

to much hype is there around the Mclaren road car as well but it turned out to be a flop agains the 458, same will be true for the race car...

That's a pretty sweeping statement! All your posts on this smack of some very sour grapes......

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

That's a pretty sweeping statement! All your posts on this smack of some very sour grapes......

not at all, I just call em as I see them, read the reviews for your self if you dont belive me, BTW even Top Gear J.C. stated he would rather have the 458, a heavy statement from someone so heavily british biast as he is.

if you go to the Fifth gear website and watch bonus videos of Tiff and the other guy driving the McLaren you'll see what I mean.

as for the race car we will see, since it wount have any active aero, electronic break diff, or dual clutch transmisin, or even a turbo engine it reamains to be seen how it will do in GTE, although ACO could chose to let them run all of the above just for the *kicks of it. (even thoug everything stated above is iligal in GTE rulebook.)

*cash.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by arakis

not at all, I just call em as I see them, read the reviews for your self if you dont belive me, BTW even Top Gear J.C. stated he would rather have the 458, a heavy statement from someone so heavily british biast as he is.

as for the race car we will see, since it wount have any active aero, electronic break diff, or dual clutch transmisin, or even a turbo engine it reamains to be seen how it will do in GTE, although ACO could chose to let them run all of the above just for the *kicks of it. (even thoug everything stated above is iligal in GTE rulebook.)

*cash.

Clarkson? Do you seriously think I place store by what Clarkson thinks of a car?? I'm happy to remember 1995........who knows

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by arakis

or even a turbo engine

Wrong, turbo engines are allowed in GTE as fa as I'm aware (although they'd have to downsize it from 3.8 to something like 3.2 in order to run the engine). I mean... LMP2 engine regulations are based on GTE, so by that reckoning turbo engines have to be legal.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Wrong, turbo engines are allowed in GTE as fa as I'm aware (although they'd have to downsize it from 3.8 to something like 3.2 in order to run the engine). I mean... LMP2 engine regulations are based on GTE, so by that reckoning turbo engines have to be legal.

wrong largest turbo is 2.0l, and I dont think that will be better then running 3.8 or 4.0l N/A

[Duff_44]

Turbo engines are allowed in GTE up to 4000cc. Other than pipes and heat exchangers, the original system must be retained.
(ACO GTE regulations, section 5.5)

I can't recall a turbocharged GTE-class car, and only remember a couple in GT1, both Porsche 911 Turbo variants.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by arakis

wrong largest turbo is 2.0l, and I dont think that will be better then running 3.8 or 4.0l N/A

Technical regulation PDF says turbocharged engines can go to 4 liters in GTE regulations, so theoretically McLaren could use the 3.8 V8 without downsizing...

http://www.lemans.org/wpphpFichiers/...egulations.pdf

Page 13. You were thinking of LMP1 turbo engines with the 2-liter maximum.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by arakis

as for the race car we will see, since it wount have any active aero, electronic break diff, or dual clutch transmisin, or even a turbo engine it reamains to be seen how it will do in GTE, although ACO could chose to let them run all of the above just for the *kicks of it. (even thoug everything stated above is iligal in GTE rulebook.)

*cash.

At the launch of the GT3 MP4, Mclaren said it had been built to GTE specification where possible.

[arakis]

ok sorry I got mixed up with turbo sizes, I think the GTE rules still favor N/A engines though, othervise porsche could have used GT2 as its homologation insted of GT3 RS

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Stranger

Or as a manufacturer recently put it...

When the McLaren is 100% ready to go after testing by the factory all other cars will be rendered useless unless improved big time. Until the next GT3 car is raced, which will then make the McLaren out-of-date and more investments required.

And so GT3 will become very expensive soon...

Yet the call is still for the ALMS to adopt GT3.

All it would do is introduce a direct competitor (costs and speed) to the strongest class and eventually force a merger.

GTE already has a healthy number of manufactuers, Lotus are a recent addition, Mclaren and Lexus are coming and Chrysler are evaluating the new Viper.

[NaBUru38]

I'll put this question: why is GT3 so special that some of you want them in addition to GTE? They look the same to me. I admit that I don't get much GT racing live here in Uruguay, but I know a bit about racing and the 911 GTE doesn't look evidently fatter than the 911 GTC. The Argentine TC2000 and Turismo Nacional are impossible to confuse, for example. But GTE and GT3 aren't that much different for me, much less for a regular fan.

Originally Posted by AGD

many of the LMS (and ALMS for that matter) GTE-Pro teams did not join the ILMC. LMS GTE could still be strong next year, although those teams may need to do additional racing as the LMS calendar won't be very long.

Exactly: major European GTE teams (AF Corse, Schnitzer, Felbermayr, etc) will do the 5-6 Euro LMS race plus the three WEC races and perhaps all or some of the Asian races. That's 8-10 races, which sounds very reasonable.