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Old 12 Sep 2016, 12:35 (Ref:3671865)   #26
chunterer
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Originally Posted by peebee2 View Post
Millions poured into you. Given multiple year and chances to hit targets. Gifted a top level F1 chance where otherwise wouldn't have happened (esp JEV). Shafted. Not.

If they were "more than deserving" of a non-Red Bull F1 drive then they would have got one. Neither did. Or was ever really that close to being picked up.
I accept your point about careers being paid for which maybe a priviledge but how do you know neither were of interest to other teams?!

The opposite was in fact the case certainly re JEV but financial and (yet more) politics came unto play which scuppered them. It's also pretty evident that those 2 were a damn site better than 50% of the grid at the time and yet those 50% only outlasted them.

If we go back to Bella's point about pre F1 'dumpees' then who do we specifically single out as debatable cases?

Wickens, Da Costa (although he's still on the firm by default in DTM), Maki, Hartley (still inconsistent in WEC).

Then what about those guys who got a token season for whatever reason like Stoneman who had a rotten time in 3.5 but had been pretty stellar in anything he had (and has since) sat his backside in?

It seems that even RB have accepted that old cliche that a superstar only comes along once in a generation
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Old 12 Sep 2016, 14:49 (Ref:3671895)   #27
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Bourdais was unlucky to be paired with Vettel, who is a superstar, but I still think SB could have made a handy career in F1 under different circumstances.
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Old 12 Sep 2016, 15:33 (Ref:3671901)   #28
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... Hartley (still inconsistent in WEC).
bit off topic but what happened with Hartley?

he always seemed to get passed over despite being tipped a number of times for a full race seat.
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Old 12 Sep 2016, 16:03 (Ref:3671905)   #29
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Bourdais was unlucky to be paired with Vettel, who is a superstar, but I still think SB could have made a handy career in F1 under different circumstances.


To be fair he was pretty unlucky full stop that year. He ran as high as fourth in his first race, then the engine went, although he was still classified in 7th. In Belgium he was on his way to 3rd place, when he got shuffled back in the pack on the last lap after being hung out to dry by Heidfeld and Fred on wets on a damp track. Then in Monza he qualified in fourth, then the car wouldn't get off the grid. Finally in Fuji he was given a ridiculous post race penalty for a collision that was Massa's fault. It's a shame because I feel he did a better job in the early rounds than Vettel who struggled to complete the first lap of a race.

Either way you have to give Seabas credit for trying as what did he have to prove by staying in America after 4 titles? He needed a new challenge and so what it didn't work out? It hasn't done his career too much harm as he's doing well in America again. But I digress...
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Old 12 Sep 2016, 16:26 (Ref:3671908)   #30
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But he's scraping around with lower-order teams in IndyCars. Stick him in a Ganassi or a Penske, and I think he's still got titles in him.
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Old 12 Sep 2016, 16:57 (Ref:3671913)   #31
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If we go back to Bella's point about pre F1 'dumpees' then who do we specifically single out as debatable cases?

Wickens, Da Costa (although he's still on the firm by default in DTM), Maki, Hartley (still inconsistent in WEC).

Then what about those guys who got a token season for whatever reason like Stoneman who had a rotten time in 3.5 but had been pretty stellar in anything he had (and has since) sat his backside in?

It seems that even RB have accepted that old cliche that a superstar only comes along once in a generation
they're going to regret dropping ilott. that one made no sense at all. he's my lowkey macau favourite if the prema steamroller trips up.

iirc maki (good memory!) stitched himself up with some naughty road car shenanigans? never was entirely sure about wickens, but he seems massively popular with mercedes and dtm so arguably he's a success story. albeit not for red bull themselves same for da costa, i'm glad he got the opportunity his talent deserved in a strong situation and it has definitely given him a launchpad into stuff like formula e too.

i suppose you could say that the guys with a bit of money who have been dropped have made a decent fist of turning lemons into lemonade?
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Old 12 Sep 2016, 17:06 (Ref:3671915)   #32
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bit off topic but what happened with Hartley?

he always seemed to get passed over despite being tipped a number of times for a full race seat.
He never lived up to his hype.

But he more than lives up to it now in sportscars.
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Old 12 Sep 2016, 17:47 (Ref:3671927)   #33
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Never really got a proper crack of the whip in single seaters, but, as you say, a world champion now, and not many people can say that.
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Old 12 Sep 2016, 18:15 (Ref:3671933)   #34
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Never really got a proper crack of the whip in single seaters
9 years, age 14-22 with multiple seasons in British F3, Euroseries F3 and FR3.5 with a bit of GP2 seems like a fair crack of the whip to me...
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Old 12 Sep 2016, 19:11 (Ref:3671946)   #35
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and with some top teams too...
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Old 13 Sep 2016, 04:08 (Ref:3672025)   #36
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9 years, age 14-22 with multiple seasons in British F3, Euroseries F3 and FR3.5 with a bit of GP2 seems like a fair crack of the whip to me...
Porsche can clearly see something in him that Red Bull couldn't
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Old 13 Sep 2016, 06:35 (Ref:3672033)   #37
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Hartley is doing well in WEC no doubt but poster said never had fair crack of the whip in single-seaters when he had chance after chance after chance, and with top teams too.

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they're going to regret dropping ilott. that one made no sense at all.
Seriously? You might be on your own there bella. Red Bull have a great deal of resources at their behest and, in hindsight, not sure they have dropped too many drivers they shouldn't have.
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Old 13 Sep 2016, 21:09 (Ref:3672222)   #38
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Christ I forgot about the likes of Juncadella ( he's wasted in GT's!) Lewis Williamson, Lynn, Blomqvist only got a years paid drives each.

Surely Lynn and Tom can't be considered not good enough although didn't Alex walk away rather than get fired?
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Old 13 Sep 2016, 21:46 (Ref:3672233)   #39
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There are so many wrong assumptions about Red Bull.

Blonqvist got a half budget deal.

Lynn, Ilott and Stoneman got very, very little budget.

Some who have gone to F1 brought major funding for that, including more than one of their current four F1 drivers. In fact, more than two!

Juncadella's backing effectively went to his cousin.

Lynn drove on the basis that if he won GP3 there would be a Toro Rosso opening, but they signed Verstappen instead - a decision vindicated by time now I think.

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Old 14 Sep 2016, 13:37 (Ref:3672329)   #40
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Verstappen over Lynn looks like a smart move in retrospect, though must have been a gamble at the time. I still (patriotically) hope Lynn gets a chance, but he doesn't seem to be one of those names which is often on people's lips.
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Old 15 Sep 2016, 06:13 (Ref:3672487)   #41
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Verstappen over Lynn looks like a smart move in retrospect, though must have been a gamble at the time. I still (patriotically) hope Lynn gets a chance, but he doesn't seem to be one of those names which is often on people's lips.
He needed to do a Vandoorne job in GP2 this year but has been too inconsistent.

Dams aren't the top team at the moment either.
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Old 15 Sep 2016, 13:38 (Ref:3672557)   #42
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Didn't Lynn say something along the lines of he's committed to securing a drive in F1 next year
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Old 15 Sep 2016, 14:26 (Ref:3672568)   #43
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He's said he won't do GP2 again. Being committed to getting a drive and actually getting one are two different things. Williams looks like his only real option. I believe he's been sniffing around Formula E too.
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Old 15 Sep 2016, 15:01 (Ref:3672578)   #44
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I think he'd better to secure GP2 title along his first F1 outings.
The GP2 rules allows him to do that this year.
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Old 15 Sep 2016, 15:43 (Ref:3672581)   #45
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I assume you mean Gasly rather than Lynn. The latter's only 8th in the points, he's not going to win the title. Gasly might well.
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Old 19 Sep 2016, 22:02 (Ref:3674196)   #46
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Kyvat put in a timely performance last weekend. As long as he keeps that up i don't see Gasly getting in unless one of Kyvat or Sainz goes to Enstone.
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Old 25 Sep 2016, 01:11 (Ref:3674854)   #47
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Kyvat put in a timely performance last weekend. As long as he keeps that up i don't see Gasly getting in unless one of Kyvat or Sainz goes to Enstone.
I think you can safely say that Kvyat's Red Bull indulgence ceases at the end of this year, his time is up.
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Old 25 Sep 2016, 12:07 (Ref:3674911)   #48
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I love it when people are driving so much better than they were, when it come to the contract renewal time
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Old 26 Sep 2016, 01:16 (Ref:3675169)   #49
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I love it when people are driving so much better than they were, when it come to the contract renewal time
I must admit, it must be really frustrating for a team to see a driver stroking it around for 14 races and then suddenly improve at contract time.
If it was my team I would take it as a validation of my technical staff, and confirmation that a replacement driver is needed!
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Old 26 Sep 2016, 01:39 (Ref:3675176)   #50
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I must admit, it must be really frustrating for a team to see a driver stroking it around for 14 races and then suddenly improve at contract time.
If it was my team I would take it as a validation of my technical staff, and confirmation that a replacement driver is needed!
I am surprised more teams don't have that attitude, obviously racecraft is not the motivating force for that driver. And seems to happen often with guys barely hanging on, the kind of guys you'd expect to be pushing harder.
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