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Old 26 Dec 2017, 02:17 (Ref:3789145)   #176
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Is lmp2 costing that little in comparison? You buy the Ginetta and possibly an engine for around 3 million. Maybe 4.5-5 for 2. But you can win overall and develop your car. And hire who you want within reason. Seems like a bargain for a few well-off gentlemen team owners.
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 02:37 (Ref:3789146)   #177
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Can get a p2 for about 700k euro so it's quite a leap if the p1 is 3 mill but a genuine shot at le mans might be all it takes to attact the finances.

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Old 26 Dec 2017, 07:30 (Ref:3789159)   #178
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Weird how they sorted of started his whole P1 privateer hype and they will only have one car on the grid
There'll be more than one. I know of three other customers who were in late negotiations with Ginetta about buying cars.

There's the one which hasn't materialised, though most doubted whether they had enough money in the first place.
There's a Middle-East customer, who wanted two plus a spare tub, and who I believe has already signed a contract and paid a deposit, but doesn't want to announce it until next month (possibly at Autosport International?)
And there's a third, who I don't know much about.
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 08:52 (Ref:3789164)   #179
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There'll be more than one. I know of three other customers who were in late negotiations with Ginetta about buying cars.

There's the one which hasn't materialised, though most doubted whether they had enough money in the first place.
There's a Middle-East customer, who wanted two plus a spare tub, and who I believe has already signed a contract and paid a deposit, but doesn't want to announce it until next month (possibly at Autosport International?)
And there's a third, who I don't know much about.
Well, that paints a far rosier picture. Fingers crossed for those, and more! I like that Ginetta were proactive regarding P1, as they were with P3.
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 10:42 (Ref:3789171)   #180
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canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Problem is that new private lmp1 and engines are a huge question mark.... nobody still can predict the performance window and if the whole package is reliable.
2015-2016 R-one had overall better performances than oreca/ligier lmp2 but how many times did finish the race ahead?
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 10:44 (Ref:3789172)   #181
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canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Having gibson lmp2 engine revealed to be rock-solid, is quite more likely to see a le mans lmp2 overall win than a private lmp1 to me.
Quite sure that toyota won't win this time too.
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 11:05 (Ref:3789175)   #182
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Having gibson lmp2 engine revealed to be rock-solid, is quite more likely to see a le mans lmp2 overall win than a private lmp1 to me.
Quite sure that toyota won't win this time too.


I think with around 10 P1's, even with reliability issues, one of them is bound to get a clean run. It's a number game surely

Not only has one or more of the P2's got to have a perfect run, but they've got to do enough laps that they can overtake in the rankings possibly 10 faster P1 cars.

Toyota could turn their cars down and run safely ahead of all P2's.

The real danger I imagine for Toyota is the privateers being fast enough to scare them into making mistakes..
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 11:46 (Ref:3789180)   #183
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Well kolles did pass a Toyota at the start last year...
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 12:39 (Ref:3789189)   #184
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gustavobamba should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgustavobamba should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If the Twitter don´t lie... one of their drivers said the Bykolles hit 350 km/h in ARAGON test... i don´t seem to see that kinda speed from Toyota... in the first lap maibe Bykolles can overtake the Toyota´s
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 12:48 (Ref:3789190)   #185
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If the Twitter don´t lie... one of their drivers said the Bykolles hit 350 km/h in ARAGON test... i don´t seem to see that kinda speed from Toyota... in the first lap maibe Bykolles can overtake the Toyota´s
If they had not lost the nose in Tetre Rouge on the first lap at LM this year, I think they really could made it interesting a long way.
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 13:28 (Ref:3789192)   #186
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canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
well 350km/h on mulsanne straight, but gte like corner speed on porsche sector....
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 13:32 (Ref:3789193)   #187
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well 350km/h on mulsanne straight, but gte like corner speed on porsche sector....
I know it was supposed to be a joke, but...

http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/Res...ctors_Race.PDF

S3 (from Mulsanne back to the start, including Porsche Curves), still faster than all the LMP2s even with an engine in the process of cooking itself. Race sector times. So yeah, without that first lap with the nose blocking the radiators and boiling the engine to hell, it's... interesting to ponder where that car would have finished.

And a likely faster and possibly more reliable-than-that Ginetta next year...
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 14:47 (Ref:3789200)   #188
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As far as words on budgets, let the forum nutter chime in...

I heard on the Fox broadcast (or maybe read somewhere here) that JCDC/Jota's budget for the WEC and LM was on the order of $3 million USD.

For a comparison, on the 2003 Road Atlanta sprint race broadcast (which is up on You Tube on the ALMS' page there), ADT Champion Racing spent $4.5 million USD on their ALMS season and Le Mans.

There's caveats, though. Champion ran more but predominantly shorter races than Jota/JCDC did. And the big one is that those totals and the difference between them doesn't account for 15 years worth of inflation.

Also, we might also have to take in account that the cars and engine deals aren't the only cost. There's travel, lodging, spare parts and payroll. The most recent numbers I can remember on that front was Muscle Milk Racing saying that their budget (and maybe Rebellion's at the time) was roughly equivalent to a NASCAR Xfinity Series team's.

It's safe to say that Kolles is spending significantly less than that. Thing here is that I think that $1.5 million or so is reasonable for a car (again, inflation vs say LMP900/early LMP1), but I'm unsure of who'd pay $750+K for an engine deal for a thus far unproven engine unless they know something we don't.
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 17:45 (Ref:3789217)   #189
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As far as words on budgets, let the forum nutter chime in...

I heard on the Fox broadcast (or maybe read somewhere here) that JCDC/Jota's budget for the WEC and LM was on the order of $3 million USD.

For a comparison, on the 2003 Road Atlanta sprint race broadcast (which is up on You Tube on the ALMS' page there), ADT Champion Racing spent $4.5 million USD on their ALMS season and Le Mans.

There's caveats, though. Champion ran more but predominantly shorter races than Jota/JCDC did. And the big one is that those totals and the difference between them doesn't account for 15 years worth of inflation.

Also, we might also have to take in account that the cars and engine deals aren't the only cost. There's travel, lodging, spare parts and payroll. The most recent numbers I can remember on that front was Muscle Milk Racing saying that their budget (and maybe Rebellion's at the time) was roughly equivalent to a NASCAR Xfinity Series team's.

It's safe to say that Kolles is spending significantly less than that. Thing here is that I think that $1.5 million or so is reasonable for a car (again, inflation vs say LMP900/early LMP1), but I'm unsure of who'd pay $750+K for an engine deal for a thus far unproven engine unless they know something we don't.
And here's another little nugget - LMP2 and GTE Am budgets are all but identical!
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 19:52 (Ref:3789224)   #190
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And here's another little nugget - LMP2 and GTE Am budgets are all but identical!
The contrast between GTE/GT3 and LMP2/LMP3 budgets really doesn't make a lot of sense to me. LMP3 gives more or less GT3 performance for, what, a quarter to a third of the price?
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 20:18 (Ref:3789225)   #191
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As far as words on budgets, let the forum nutter chime in...

I heard on the Fox broadcast (or maybe read somewhere here) that JCDC/Jota's budget for the WEC and LM was on the order of $3 million USD.

For a comparison, on the 2003 Road Atlanta sprint race broadcast (which is up on You Tube on the ALMS' page there), ADT Champion Racing spent $4.5 million USD on their ALMS season and Le Mans.

There's caveats, though. Champion ran more but predominantly shorter races than Jota/JCDC did. And the big one is that those totals and the difference between them doesn't account for 15 years worth of inflation.

Also, we might also have to take in account that the cars and engine deals aren't the only cost. There's travel, lodging, spare parts and payroll. The most recent numbers I can remember on that front was Muscle Milk Racing saying that their budget (and maybe Rebellion's at the time) was roughly equivalent to a NASCAR Xfinity Series team's.

It's safe to say that Kolles is spending significantly less than that. Thing here is that I think that $1.5 million or so is reasonable for a car (again, inflation vs say LMP900/early LMP1), but I'm unsure of who'd pay $750+K for an engine deal for a thus far unproven engine unless they know something we don't.
The 3mln $ you posted includes prices of both orecas, gibson leasing for both cars, spare parts; travels and logistics costs and salaries for drivers, engineers and the whole team staff too?
If that's all is really quite cheap for a lmp2 top team WEC 2 cars effort.

In late GT1 years, a decade ago, was rumored that P&M/corvette racing had about 10 mln $ budget just for le mans.
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 20:20 (Ref:3789226)   #192
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The 3mln $ you posted includes prices of both orecas, gibson leasing for both cars, spare parts; travels and logistics costs and salaries for drivers, engineers and the whole team staff too?
If that's all is really quite cheap for a lmp2 top team WEC 2 cars effort.

In late GT1 years, a decade ago, was rumored that P&M/corvette racing had about 10 mln $ budget just for le mans.
I think the numbers I read a while back were about €2m for an ELMS season, extending to €3m if you added Le Mans.
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Old 26 Dec 2017, 22:43 (Ref:3789234)   #193
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$4.5 million is pretty cheap to be in the top class, especially now.

I do agree though with LMP2 being pretty close to LMP1 on a dollars/Euros/lbs vs lap time basis.

Aside from homolgation concerns, why not beef up a LMP2 to LMP1 spec if it stands to be less expensive than a purpose built alternative?
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Old 28 Dec 2017, 15:19 (Ref:3789465)   #194
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I've long given up believing season budget estimates... With some Hollywood accounting, it can range from 5$ million to 250€ million. It only gets more complicated when manufacturers get involved and lend/give away hardware and support. The proof is in the pudding; if the actual grids are well garnished it means it made sense at some point - if people run the full season without playing musical chair and dropping out, we're onto something - and if good grids last for 3 straight years, we can start calling it sustainable.

For now, WEC P1 is looking halfway promising ON PAPER and P2 is looking like it will stay equally healthy or maybe even expand. The Super Season thingy and the fact that it'll start late are making it harder to know for sure, but as long as the economy sustains it, new entrants will inject millions into the sport for very little return.
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Old 11 Jan 2018, 06:43 (Ref:3791907)   #195
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'Reveal' of the new G60-LT-P1 will be broadcast live on Ginetta's Facebook page at 11 am UK time today
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Old 11 Jan 2018, 06:52 (Ref:3791908)   #196
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'Reveal' of the new G60-LT-P1 will be broadcast live on Ginetta's Facebook page at 11 am UK time today
Awesome news! I heard from them that they will reveal their car in Manor colors. Is there any news on another team running it?
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Old 11 Jan 2018, 06:53 (Ref:3791909)   #197
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Awesome news! I heard from them that they will reveal their car in Manor colors. Is there any news on another team running it?
Ah yes but the question is - What colours will TRS Manor run with?
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Old 11 Jan 2018, 06:56 (Ref:3791910)   #198
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Ah yes but the question is - What colours will TRS Manor run with?
Lol, if it's anything besides red it will be a surprise
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Old 11 Jan 2018, 10:48 (Ref:3791931)   #199
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So is this it ??

https://www.facebook.com/ginettacars...type=3&theater
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Old 11 Jan 2018, 10:50 (Ref:3791932)   #200
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Not exactly!
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