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Old 27 Jul 2010, 17:21 (Ref:2734074)   #1
jhansen
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jhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Moto GP - Why Watch?

So this has been brought up a few times lately, given some of the less than thrilling races that Moto GP has served up. Pulled these quotes from the Laguna thread:

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Originally Posted by chunder View Post
Oh and bestfit, seems I am not the only one who thinks current GP racing is very poor. If you love it, then please tell me why!
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Originally Posted by bestfit View Post
Chunder. I apologise for my remark, it was out of line. You are perfectly entitled to have whatever opinion you like about the racing or any other subject.

As to why I enjoy the GPs, I will work on a reply and get back to you. The reasons are many.

Simple question really: why do you watch, or not watch Moto GP?

Let's hear from both sides shall we? Discuss...
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Old 27 Jul 2010, 17:42 (Ref:2734091)   #2
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I shall still continue to watch but record it and skip through it. As we all know its down to numbers and after the first couple of laps it just gets too strung out.
A great pity for what is the F1 of bikes.
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Old 27 Jul 2010, 18:05 (Ref:2734101)   #3
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started watching about 5 years ago when F1 became too boring to bear; only realised I'm a 100% Rossi fan when he broke his leg and I stopped watching the races! I like it because you can see (a little of) what the rider and machine are doing, and to a non-biker they (especially Rossi) appear to defy the laws of physics
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Old 27 Jul 2010, 20:10 (Ref:2734178)   #4
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I'm not sure why I don't watch really, I've been turned off all season, just watching the odd race if I have time. I've been glued to moto gp for 8(ish) years, but i'm just not interested as much this year.

Maybe these are a few reasons that have added up,

a, not enough bikes.
b, not enough bikes at the front.
c, no brits, Non not even close to being in it. (yes we have a few very good riders, but non will race in Moto GP for at least 3-4 years)
d, I watch smith in the 125's and redding in moto2, can't really sit infront of tv for 4 hours on my day off.
e, predictability, after 3-4 laps you could guess the result for 80% of the races.
f, other motorsports on tv, there is so much choice, on any given sunday you can have F1, WTCC, SBK, BSB, Super Formula, BTCC, Moto GP, 125's, Moto2, LMS, GP2, GP3, to name a few. there is alot of choice out there, motogp is still high but I just can't sit in all day and watch it all.
g, the bikes being changed to 800's, i'm not a massive engine nut, but as a fan it seemed watching the 1000's fly down the straights, the riders trying to stop them and get them round the corner then hammering them down to the next corner, looked better and i think it gave better racing. and god they sounded good on the infield at donnington coming out of the old harpin.

all these have just added up to me deciding to not spend as much time as i used to.

there are i guess arguments against all points i make, but as one together they are enough to switch it of and go out for a ride on my mountian bike on a sunday afternoon, ( i guess our nice summer goes on the list too then)
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Old 27 Jul 2010, 20:28 (Ref:2734190)   #5
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Simple really, there is nothing interesting to see these days.

The bikes are so limited in what theyc an with tyres, engines and electronics it is the best software expert that can develop his bike/rider that wins.

That is putting it simply but the lack of spectaculr ridins is clear to see as is the difference in top spec machines in GP and 125. At Germany Marqeuz and Pol were miles faster than everyone else, how can this be in a supposedly equal class? Coz theya re on the best bikes that's why. It seems even Aspar is struggling with his Aprilia's this year, maybe Derbi (though the same bike) have come up with something differetn for their machines.

I watch GP racing because it is the pinnacle. At tracks like Phillip Island and the like you can see why Stoner, Rossi et al are where they are. They do things that make you gasp, just like Schwantz, Rainey, Kocinski and Gardner did all those years ago.

The issue now is that a lot of the time you can't SEE what theya re doing where you could before.

In 2002-4 you could tell when Max's or Sete's tyre was going off coz he changed his stye to spin the rear more and Vale would sit and wait to pounce. Now you can't tell a thing.

Even WSBK is struggling. The racing is more strung out than usual as Aprilia have caought everyone hopping and they cant kee up every meeting. WSS has suffered enormously this year after being the best class for racing for years and the best race of the weekend.

Not sure what the answer is. We all know what would work and that is ban electronics and have WSBK for basically Superstock bikes and GP for 1000cc bikes using factor sepcial frames, Moto2 as it is with differetn makes and 125 to be 450 single cylinder machines in perhaps a Derbi frame to keep costs lower in the entry class.

I think it will pan out soon, but right now the racing is poor, viewers are being turned off and that can only be bad for sponsors.
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Old 27 Jul 2010, 21:05 (Ref:2734214)   #6
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ghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridghinzani should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Moto2 people. It rocks.
BBC coverage of Moto GP sucks becuase of Cox. Their red buttons very good tho of the 125 and moto2, as of course is everything Jules and Ryder do on Eurosport.
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Old 27 Jul 2010, 21:27 (Ref:2734238)   #7
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SALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I watch mainly because of the technology aspect, and that even though they are bikes they still turn in very quick times compared to most race cars, they are only marginally slower than a F3 or GT1 car in terms of lap times. The racing this year has been less than fantastic yes, but the Saschenring provided some good racing I thought, albeit not up to the standards of previous years.

Hopefully things will improve again when they go back to the 1000cc's though..
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Old 30 Jul 2010, 20:34 (Ref:2736046)   #8
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Oh dear! I seem to be out of step. Whilst I agree that there are not enough bikes I generally enjoy the races. Some British riders would add something but this isn't a major point for me. I also like Cox's enthusiasm.
It is a bit strung out at the moment but I remember the Doohan domination of past years - now that was boring!
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Old 31 Jul 2010, 04:07 (Ref:2736184)   #9
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Ultimo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUltimo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I just started to follow MotoGP last year, and only somewhat. My friend has gotten into motorcycling pretty heavily in the past few years and drawn me in.

I like what I see. I really like that the races are short and sweet - I have enjoyed the races I have seen so far in these past two years.

A problem for me is I don't have the channel it's aired on (SpeedTV) and am not one to pirate, so I often have to watch the races at my buddies house, which complicates things.
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Old 31 Jul 2010, 04:51 (Ref:2736193)   #10
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The bikes are pathetic, that is the main thing. Too underpowered, too light.

Can't wait for the the capacity increase.
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Old 31 Jul 2010, 13:20 (Ref:2736331)   #11
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The problem stems from the rule changes. 800cc bikes were brought in in an effort to slow things down, but this was very dumbly thought out.

What it in fact meant was that EVERY team involved had to redesign their bikes and engines. The older 990cc bikes were instantly consigned to scrap. This was idiotic in my view as there was very little changeover period.

Then the world economy died and the result was that Kawasaki amd teams like Ilmor pulled out.

800cc bikes are effectively like big 600's or 250's in their style. nIn that corner speed is the real area where speed is gained.

This is only really the case however as electronics have reared the hideous head. THey utterly control the previous area of distinguishing a champion from a nobody, corner exit and tyre degradation.

In the past a Lawson, Schwantz, Rossi, Gibernau, even Stoner would go from pushing both ends of the bike early in a race to being able to manage the rear tyre wear by changing their style and allowing their lap time to not be too badly affected. This is now no longer an option as you ride the bike largely the same way all race and let electronics rule your style.

Guys liek McCoy, Laconi, Crafar, Gardner would be uselss in modern GP racing coz they ride bikes on the edge, and now you have to be neat, precise and fearleesly commited to corner entry speed and lean angles, all things that even as late is 2004 didnt matter so much.

Remember the 2003 Desmosidici had NO traction control, the early 4 strokes had sprag slipper clutches that gae riders real issues slowing the bikes down.

Now you have wheelie control, launch control (meaning a rider who starts well like a Walker or Ron Haslam has an advantage negated by software), traction control, electroni damping, mapping, power cut, tyre temp sensors! Ots all too expensive and needs banning.

If you want a show watch World Superstock, they are 100cc road bikes on crap tyres with no TC. If you want to watch F1 on bikes watch WSBK and GP, money, electronics and the PACKAGE rules, utterly dull.

Until either Rossi leaves or Ezpeleta wakes up, nothing will change.

Gp needs 1000cc 4 strokes using road based blocks in prototype frames, tyre war back, no electronics at all. FIM ECU. No tyre warmers. Get real.

WSBK needs to be tuned Superstock on slicks, control tyres, no electronics.

It is not hard really but trying to convince a BMW, Honda, Yamaha or Aprilia to race bikes that are sold with electronics, without them to race with is gonna be hard.
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Old 1 Aug 2010, 02:26 (Ref:2736863)   #12
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gomick should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgomick should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridgomick should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
You should run "world motorcycling" chunder - the regs cant be that hard to introduce!
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Old 1 Aug 2010, 02:37 (Ref:2736866)   #13
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cptkablamo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcptkablamo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I watch and enjoy the 125cc, Moto2 and the WSBK - the racing is close, there are a lot of bikes and you never really know who is going to win.

The problem, for me, with MotoGP is the laughable grid, sometimes only 15 bikes appear and there is always a air of inevitability with the race. This year you get the sense that a Yamaha will get to the front and pull out a gap, and while there maybe good fights for 5th or 10th or what not, the TV doesn't show these fights and sheer lack of bikes means that there is not enough to really draw you in - at least when compared to 125, Moto2 and WSBK.
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Old 1 Aug 2010, 09:32 (Ref:2737056)   #14
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
It was the same in the late 80's when there was only the Ago Yams, Roberts Yams and Rothmans Honda. Suzuki and Schwantz were learning and the rest of the grid was NS triples and old RG500 Gamma's!

The racing was still half decent coz the riders were good and there were differences in the tyre from Dunlop and Michelin, and the bikes suited different tracks, Honda were rocketships and Yamaha handled well.

Then Roberts convinced Yamaha to offer YZR engines to privateers and Honda built the vee twins and all was merry in the world!

These days there is a huge disparity between factory and customer bikes and the tyres are all the same meaning you can't find an advantage unless there is weird weather or it rains. Electronics means a rider can't do what someone like Crafar, Laconi or McCoy did, or even Capirossi or Barros on Pons bikes and beat the factory teams. Private teams NEVER beat factory ones anymore, even on leased factory bikes. They did in the 90's. Electronics and engineers now rule the roost.

For me the rider talent is not the same as it was in the 80's, there is no Lawson, Mamola, Gardner, Rainey, Magee, Schwantz, Mackenzie, Spencer, Sarron. There is only really Stoner, Pedrosa, Rossi and Jorge. The rest are pretty much making up the numbers! Guys like Dovi and de puniet would batter WSBK riders, but can't get that close to the aliens, coz theur bikes are a step behind in spec and electronics, thats all.

Let's hope next years shake up sorts things out a bit more.
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Old 15 Jan 2011, 10:08 (Ref:2815993)   #15
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Why don't i watch anymore? Well the main reason is quite simple: Eurosport used to broadcast all the races, and RTL (a dutch network) broadcasted the races live as well. Eurosport lost the rights to broadcast (Motogp has gone to a strategy that they want to have a decent network in each country and eurosport basically is competition to these networks). Unfortunately RTL did not re-new the rights as well, so i can't watch it.

That is the main reason, but i must admit that if this had happened a few years ago i would have bought a season package on the motogp site to watch the races on their website. But imo the last couple of years the races on general have been quite boring. To much spread out racing at the top, to few bikes on the grid so not much action down the field as well. It is a shame though because with the aliens we could have had a 4-way fight for the championship with close racing as well in the past 2 years.
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Old 15 Jan 2011, 10:16 (Ref:2816000)   #16
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The racaing has been awful the past few years. And why? Coz only a few people can ride the 800 bikes on the limit and the talent pool is so small that there arent enough rider/bike combinations capabale of challenging.

Gone are the days when you are going to get a Crafar winning at Donington, a Lawson winning in Hungary, an Elias winning at Estoril.

Same tyres, pretty much same bikes, 2 teams with money, the rest struggling.

Ezpeleta made a huge cock up with the 800 rules and then was forced to keep them after he knew they were a disaster. Remember he brought them in only to reduce speeds under Honda backing to suit Pedrosa.
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Old 15 Jan 2011, 15:22 (Ref:2816082)   #17
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bestfit should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridbestfit should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Ezpeleta made a huge cock up with the 800 rules and then was forced to keep them after he knew they were a disaster. Remember he brought them in only to reduce speeds under Honda backing to suit Pedrosa.
This critisism is often thrown at Espeleta, to a large extent unfairly. The rules and specifications for the 800 era were not set by Ezpeleta, DORNA, IRTA or the FIM, they had little or no say in their formulation. That responsibility for the cock up as you put it lies squarely at the feet of the MSMA (ie the factories). Under the agreement setting out the responsibilities of the various organisations, MSMA is deemed to be the technical advisor for the series. If unanimous agreement is reached between all the factories (as it always is) a rule introduced by MSMA cannot be vetoed by DORNA/FIM/IRTA. Thus the introduction of the 800's, the fuel capacity reduction, the single tyre rule etc are ALL initiatives of MSMA and it is at them that critisism should be focused.

The current contract between DORNA and MSMA expires at the end of this season and Ezpeleta has actually been working hard to ensure that the responsibility for setting rules and specification is removed from MSMA as of next year. The MSMA will have the right to veto a new rule if they have unanimous agreement but they will not set the rules as they do now.

The introduction of Claiming Rule Teams from next year is also an attempt by DORNA to break the monopoly of the factories and open up the field to independent teams and came about due to the factories constantly reneging on an agreement to put more bikes on the grid.

Ezpeleta and DORNA are by no means perfect but perhaps should be more fairly judged on their post 2011 performance when they have regained true control of the series.
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Old 15 Jan 2011, 15:30 (Ref:2816086)   #18
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jhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridjhansen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
MSMA...or Honda?
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Old 15 Jan 2011, 17:15 (Ref:2816108)   #19
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MSMA...or Honda?
That can be speculated on ad infenitum but will we ever truely know?
The fact is that MSMA needed unanimous agreement from all 5 (at the time) factories in order to instigate the 800cc rules. It has often been said that Honda used it's muscle to push through the rules, but at some point it had to negotiate with and gain agreement from the other factories. Sure Honda's size is a big stick to wave over DORNA's head, a Honda withdrawal would be extremely damaging for the series, but in reality it was the MSMA it had to win over not DORNA. The other factories must have seen some benefits to themselves in Honda's proposal, as direct competitors I doubt that would automatically roll over to suit Honda's purposes.
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Old 17 Jan 2011, 18:00 (Ref:2816919)   #20
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That can be speculated on ad infenitum but will we ever truely know?
The fact is that MSMA needed unanimous agreement from all 5 (at the time) factories in order to instigate the 800cc rules. It has often been said that Honda used it's muscle to push through the rules, but at some point it had to negotiate with and gain agreement from the other factories. Sure Honda's size is a big stick to wave over DORNA's head, a Honda withdrawal would be extremely damaging for the series, but in reality it was the MSMA it had to win over not DORNA. The other factories must have seen some benefits to themselves in Honda's proposal, as direct competitors I doubt that would automatically roll over to suit Honda's purposes.
I don`t think it would be that damaging. Just try to imagine what people would going to watch. A honda world series or a tv-backed series where a handful manufacturers fighting it out ?
That said I haven`t followed MotoGP much last year except Laguna Seca , Philip Island and Assen. But that was because I like the circuits much. I would watch the 125cc but after a couple races i found they were not really exciting. Since the WSB coverage became pretty castrated here in Germany (MotoGP, 125cc and Moto2 too btw) I follow road racing most of the time. I wait for the odd tv airing at BBC NI or listen to it via internet radio in case of the TT (and delayed ntv coverage) and the Ulster GP and Macau. To me it isn`t a question what sort of coverage I get , Radio or TV, but if the racing is boring I don`t like listening to nor watching it.

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Old 17 Jan 2011, 19:13 (Ref:2816957)   #21
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
To be fair Andy you are clearly a roads fan, always on about TT etc.

This kind of ting I ahve huge respect for but leaves me col to watch on telly!

I have been to watch a few of them and its much better live
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Old 17 Jan 2011, 19:22 (Ref:2816960)   #22
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To be fair Andy you are clearly a roads fan, always on about TT etc.

This kind of ting I ahve huge respect for but leaves me col to watch on telly!

I have been to watch a few of them and its much better live
I only seen endurance at the circuit so far as road racing is not the big thing here and usually something gets in the way to visit Frohburg.
But even endurance is more entertaining to me than most of the motogp races these days
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