2011 Trucks

[Clive Brown]

It might well have been a racing incident in the first instance (I don't believe for one moment that Hornaday actually intended to wreck Busch), but the fact remains that Hornaday did wreck Busch. All the rest followed on.

I'd have parked the pair of them up for the rest of the race, no more.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

....Aside from causing the original incident! If he had got out of the gas when he had effectively trapped himself down low on the track behind lapped traffic, then there isn't even an incident. If he didn't see the slower car ahead, then maybe it's time NASCAR had a little word in his ear about him needing to spend more time on the golf course at his advanced years and with his diminishing faculties.

So you don't want him to race?

[FordCosworthPanoz]

http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup...rint-cup-races

Mars Inc is angry, I guess driving 128 mph on a country road, getting your face destroyed by a Grandpa, and intentionally wrecking people on track are not good characteristics of a spokesperson for a company trying to sell Candy to children.

[MJ_N_09]

Yeah. He's screwed. He has possibly cost JGR a sponsor for next year. Also, it ironic that more than half of the total posts in this thread are about Kyle's worst and possibly most costly tantrum to date.

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

You are wrong. Ron and Kyle getting together the first time was a pure racing incident, as Kyle was attempting to pass him early in the race, on the outside and with a lapped truck in the mix. They got together a little when Ron washed up the track, and Kyle was too close to avoid it. Why he washed up can be open for debate as Kyle could have got him aero lose, Ron just could've lost it. Who knows, but that was purely close racing and shtuff happens sometimes at 150 mph. IF ANYTHING, I'd blame Kyle for the original contact as he had more of an opportunity to avoid the contact altogether as he had a much better view of the situation.

Point is, it was just about non-issue/no penalty racing incident at that point. In addition, Ron's truck had more damage than Kyle's and the early caution would have allowed both to make repairs with plenty of time left to get back to the front.

And bringing up other isolated incidents has very little merit, IMO. Kyle's track record big contributor to his punishment.

what he said...

Hornaday was not definitively in the wrong. And if he was, you do not park someone in NASCAR for causing a minor incident by comparison to others on any given weekend.

If you parked people for causing another car to go the pits, Martinsville would have been very quiet with the sound of 2 cars running around at the end...

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

....Aside from causing the original incident! If he had got out of the gas when he had effectively trapped himself down low on the track behind lapped traffic, then there isn't even an incident. If he didn't see the slower car ahead, then maybe it's time NASCAR had a little word in his ear about him needing to spend more time on the golf course at his advanced years and with his diminishing faculties.

Sorry but you're showing some ignorance of the visibility available to drivers racing on banked ovals right there. In short it is much more limited than is obvious from TV cameras which is a key driver of the need for spotters.

Can't agree with your views on Hornaday in this instance - side draft effects in close racing like that would easily have been enough to cause a bit of the shimmy seen. Either Ron or Kyle could have backed out of it (although that may have resulted in either truck getting even more loose) but neither did as they were racing - which is why it's called a racing incident.

Ron didn't "wreck" Kyle, he rubbed him inadvertently - Kyle sure as hell wrecked Ron though.

[Paradise City]

I think the penalty was fair. Maybe the fifty grand could've been ramped up but then the sponsor second guessing their continued support of Busch will frighten that team more than any fine would. He was parked at the weekend and I presume he'll be back this weekend to allow NASCAR the opportunity to assess whether he's reformed or not.

[Paradise City]

Busch to race at Phoenix, without sponsor M&M's

Mars Inc., the parent company of M&M's, announced late Thursday that it would not be on the No. 18 Toyota for the final two races of this season, Phoenix and next week's finale at Homestead-Miami Speedway. According to NASCAR's entry list, Busch's vehicle was supposed to feature M&M's colors at Phoenix, but all that changed after he intentionally wrecked Ron Hornaday under caution in a Camping World Truck Series event last Friday at Texas Motor Speedway, an action that has since engulfed Busch in a firestorm of controversy.
Trials and tribulations
After Kyle Busch's on-track actions during the Truck Series race at Texas, Busch, his team and his sponsors continue to deal with the ramifications heading into Phoenix this weekend.
Busch parked at Texas
Menzer: Time to grow up
Busch issues letter of apology
Video: Busch, Hornaday tangle
Video: NASCAR parks Busch
Video: Gibbs reacts to parking
Video: Harvick upset with Busch
RaceDay: Reaction, analysis
'Most galvanizing driver' As a result, Busch was parked for both the Nationwide and Sprint Cup events at Texas, and the sanctioning body also fined him $50,000 and placed him on probation through the end of the year. Although NASCAR allowed Busch to finish out this season, the question soon became whether his race team or his car sponsor would present a barrier to him getting back on the track.
In the end, Mars balked at Busch's behavior, something that became evident only after a long Thursday of waiting for the Gibbs team to shed some kind of light on the status of its driver. The situation at one point was so uncertain that the Gibbs team contacted former developmental driver Aric Almirola, who now pilots an entry for JR Motorsports on the Nationwide tour, on Wednesday about potentially driving the No. 18 Sprint Cup car should Busch not be available.
Busch will not drive an M&M's car again until 2012, when he will be reunited with his primary sponsor with the expectation that no future incidents take place, the company said. Interstate Batteries will fill in as primary sponsor for the final two weeks of this season, according to the Gibbs team. Interstate is JGR's longest-serving corporate partner, having been with the organization since its inception 20 years ago. These days it typically fills an associate sponsorship role, acting as primary sponsor for only about six events each year.

http://www.nascar.com/news/111110/ky...mms/index.html

[Paradise City]

Busch to race at Phoenix, without sponsor M&M's

Mars Inc., the parent company of M&M's, announced late Thursday that it would not be on the No. 18 Toyota for the final two races of this season, Phoenix and next week's finale at Homestead-Miami Speedway. According to NASCAR's entry list, Busch's vehicle was supposed to feature M&M's colors at Phoenix, but all that changed after he intentionally wrecked Ron Hornaday under caution in a Camping World Truck Series event last Friday at Texas Motor Speedway, an action that has since engulfed Busch in a firestorm of controversy.
Trials and tribulations
After Kyle Busch's on-track actions during the Truck Series race at Texas, Busch, his team and his sponsors continue to deal with the ramifications heading into Phoenix this weekend.

'Most galvanizing driver' As a result, Busch was parked for both the Nationwide and Sprint Cup events at Texas, and the sanctioning body also fined him $50,000 and placed him on probation through the end of the year. Although NASCAR allowed Busch to finish out this season, the question soon became whether his race team or his car sponsor would present a barrier to him getting back on the track.
In the end, Mars balked at Busch's behavior, something that became evident only after a long Thursday of waiting for the Gibbs team to shed some kind of light on the status of its driver. The situation at one point was so uncertain that the Gibbs team contacted former developmental driver Aric Almirola, who now pilots an entry for JR Motorsports on the Nationwide tour, on Wednesday about potentially driving the No. 18 Sprint Cup car should Busch not be available.
Busch will not drive an M&M's car again until 2012, when he will be reunited with his primary sponsor with the expectation that no future incidents take place, the company said. Interstate Batteries will fill in as primary sponsor for the final two weeks of this season, according to the Gibbs team. Interstate is JGR's longest-serving corporate partner, having been with the organization since its inception 20 years ago. These days it typically fills an associate sponsorship role, acting as primary sponsor for only about six events each year.

http://www.nascar.com/news/111110/ky...mms/index.html

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Sorry but you're showing some ignorance of the visibility available to drivers racing on banked ovals right there. In short it is much more limited than is obvious from TV cameras which is a key driver of the need for spotters.

So Hornaday's spotter is also visually impaired? Perhaps if NASCAR is going to allow the blind to continue to compete in the Camping World series, it should allow seeing-eye dogs in truck cabs.

In my view, Hornaday knew damned well what he was doing. He had made a mistake, and was going to get himself out of it by pushing KB out of the top groove, onto the dirt, and by extension, most likely into the wall.

[fieldodreams79]

Clive, I don't think either are visually impaired, but I do think you are seeing something extraordinary out what most here have found to be very ordinary, until Kyle shows his ass.

[Axeman444]

or maybe an impassioned one eyed Kyle supporter? Can't say any of the experts from NASCAR agree with anything other than the opposite of what you are saying Clive...

[TF110]

Years ago someone named Dale would move people out of his way, sometimes causing wrecks. Not just Dale, but others would wreck others as well for retaliation. It was frowned upon then, but now it's such a big deal. No one gets on Harvick for his stupid comments calling Kyle names, or his car owner putting him in a headlock, but Kyle puts someone in the wall and it's such a big deal. Its sad. What about Edwards? Keselowski? Come on Nascar, grow up. Two weeks ago, Kenseth and Vickers! Nothing there? This series is a joke in this regard. Selective punishment.

[MJ_N_09]

Troubles continue.

Z-Line wants Busch replaced by Hamlin at Homestead: One of Kyle Busch's sponsors has asked for him to be removed from the season-ending Nationwide Series race, The Associated Press is reporting. Multiple people familiar with Busch's schedule told the AP that Z-Line Designs wants to use Denny Hamlin instead of Busch in next weekend's Nationwide race at Homestead. The people spoke on condition of anonymity because Busch's future is still being discussed with sponsors and Joe Gibbs Racing.(Associated Press/ESPN)(11-10-2011)

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by TF110

Years ago someone named Dale would move people out of his way, sometimes causing wrecks. Not just Dale, but others would wreck others as well for retaliation. It was frowned upon then, but now it's such a big deal. No one gets on Harvick for his stupid comments calling Kyle names, or his car owner putting him in a headlock, but Kyle puts someone in the wall and it's such a big deal. Its sad. What about Edwards? Keselowski? Come on Nascar, grow up. Two weeks ago, Kenseth and Vickers! Nothing there? This series is a joke in this regard. Selective punishment.

Yep

Don't get me wrong it was a stupid move from Busch but the one also to blame for this is NASCAR them self. Their selective actions and even encourage to fight it on track results in this sort of moves.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Yep

Don't get me wrong it was a stupid move from Busch but the one also to blame for this is NASCAR them self. Their selective actions and even encourage to fight it on track results in this sort of moves.

Originally Posted by TF110

Years ago someone named Dale would move people out of his way, sometimes causing wrecks. Not just Dale, but others would wreck others as well for retaliation. It was frowned upon then, but now it's such a big deal. No one gets on Harvick for his stupid comments calling Kyle names, or his car owner putting him in a headlock, but Kyle puts someone in the wall and it's such a big deal. Its sad. What about Edwards? Keselowski? Come on Nascar, grow up. Two weeks ago, Kenseth and Vickers! Nothing there? This series is a joke in this regard. Selective punishment.

The point being missed comparing Carl's TWO incidents with Brad is that it was TWO incidents with Brad. Now it's DONE. Vickers and Kennseth at Martinsville? Can't recall...first time those two got together? Really? Harvick makes idiotic comments and does stupid things every once in while, as does every driver. Just about every single driver wrecks someone unfairly and mouths off like a moron EVERY NOW AND THEN, while Kyle consistently crashes himself and others, and then consistently makes an ass of himself with comments to the media.

And retaliation is one thing; completely wrecking someone under caution 14 laps in for absolutely nothing along with reckless driving for 8 plus years lends itself to harsh punishment, don't you think? Kyle has been an absolute MENACE in all three series for years, and he finally went WAY OVER the line at Texas. As much as I hate NASCAR's ruling most of the time, they got this one right. Ask the marketing people at Mars and now Z-line. I don't recall Dale or Carl or Harvick having their sponsors threaten to pull money or wanting someone else in the car for their idiotic moves or comments they have made, I could be wrong.

And for the record, I never liked Dale Sr because of his antics; seems the guy I was pulling for always ended up in the fence, while Dale laughs about it in victory lane; but when he lost, he was always the one gripping the loudest. He and Kyle were/are WAY to good of drivers to have to resort to such stupidity.

[Clive Brown]

I never stated that Kyle should not have been punished; after all, he deliberately wrecked Hornswoggle whilst the race was under caution. In my view, he should have been parked for the race, no more, no less. Had he been a 'truck-only' driver, I have little doubt that this is what would have happened, but because he drives all three series, he was subjected to a cruel and unusual punishment.

I cannot decide what should have happened had he wrecked Hornaday under a green, when the speeds are likely to be higher, and hence the impacts more violent, but when did NASCAR ever penalise the sainted Earnhardt for wrecking his fellow competitors, even under green flag conditions? However, if anyone ever touched Earnhardt, he squealed like a little girl, in much the same way in fact as Hornaday whined.

The overriding fact to remember is that in the first instance, Hornaday hit Busch, not vice versa ; whatever follows on, no matter how disproportionate, he brought upon himself through his own ill-judged actions.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

I never stated that Kyle should not have been punished; after all, he deliberately wrecked Hornswoggle whilst the race was under caution. In my view, he should have been parked for the race, no more, no less. Had he been a 'truck-only' driver, I have little doubt that this is what would have happened, but because he drives all three series, he was subjected to a cruel and unusual punishment.

I cannot decide what should have happened had he wrecked Hornaday under a green, when the speeds are likely to be higher, and hence the impacts more violent, but when did NASCAR ever penalise the sainted Earnhardt for wrecking his fellow competitors, even under green flag conditions? However, if anyone ever touched Earnhardt, he squealed like a little girl, in much the same way in fact as Hornaday whined.

The overriding fact to remember is that in the first instance, Hornaday hit Busch, not vice versa ; whatever follows on, no matter how disproportionate, he brought upon himself through his own ill-judged actions.

Hornaday and Busch had a few minor and typical problems during the race. Busch destroys Hornaday's car under yellow. Busch is the perpetrator and it was right that he was parked for the weekend and given a minor fine. I'm glad NASCAR didn't ride the wave of public opinion which would've probably resulted in Kyle Busch receiving fifty lashes!

[MJ_N_09]

Well, since Kyle is in alot of trouble, why can't we have the same for Brian Vickers? This is getting ridiculous from him, as he's always wrecking people out of vengeance, even more than Kyle. Today was no exception.

[MJ_N_09]

Imagine if this actually happens.............

Kyle Busch offered Hornaday a truck ride: #29-Kevin Harvick met with media at Phoenix International Raceway and discussed the Kyle Busch situation among other things, the transcript in part:
Q) AS THE TEAM OWNER DIRECTLY IMPACTED BY KYLE BUSCH'S ACTIONS LAST WEEK AT TEXAS, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW IT'S BEEN HANDLED FROM NASCAR'S STANDPOINT AS WELL AS THE SPONSOR STANDPOINT?
Harvick: "From a team owner standpoint, it was expensive. I think as you look back at the whole situation, the hardest part is that was the last time Ron Hornaday will race for a championship? That's the part that bothers me the most. It's pretty common that people know that I don't care for Kyle regardless of whether he is in trouble or out of trouble, but that's the guy (Hornaday) I feel like has taken the blunt of everything that happened last week. As far as the way it was handled, it's not my situation. It's not something that I feel like I need to weigh-in my opinion on, whether it was too much or not enough; it's just unfortunate for Ron more than for anybody. And I think as you went through the week, hearing the phone calls that were made to Ron from Kyle at the first part of the week and trying to give him the #18 truck ride for next year and all the things that he tried to do, he knew how wrong it was, hopefully."
Q) INAUDIBLE
Harvick: "Yeah, as far as I know, (team manager) Rick Wren called Ron and offered him the #18 truck for next year. At first it started just with him calling Ron trying to get Ron to call NASCAR so he wouldn't lose his job. That was how all that progressed."(Team Chevy)(11-12-2011)

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

no matter how disproportionate, he brought upon himself through his own ill-judged actions.

No he didn't.

[Clive Brown]

So Hornaday didn't move up and hit Kyle Busch in the first instance? You are reinventing history now, simply to make your case. Go check the footage....

MJ_N_09 has a point here; why was Brian Vickers not even parked for his assault upon Kenseth at PIR? Not his first effort this season either; remember Tony Stewart at Sonoma?

My point remains; the punishment meted out to KB was disproportionate. Had he been a truck series-only driver, I doubt he would have been banned for the next two Camping World series events in addition to having been parked for the evening, which I do agree was appropriate.

[fieldodreams79]

Clive, I have never claimed that Ron did not go up the track, but have claimed that it was a racing incident; nothing more-nothing less.

Ron bobbled and Kyle was there, they got up the hill and Kyle touched the fence. This happens all the time in close racing at high speeds; yes?

Your comments have indicated that Ron did this on purpose. You are claiming Ron "wrecked" Kyle, using the same term as Kyle did. This is NOT the case, IMO. Kyle was NOT WRECKED---his truck got scratched and he didn't even lose ONE spot. His truck looked pretty quick as he was running down the visually impaired, all awful Ron Hornaday.

[Clive Brown]

You call it a 'bobble', I call it moving up without first checking to your outside- and what, by the way, was Hornaday's spotter doing not calling Hornaday to check back and drop in behind Busch? Ron moved up the track; that initiated the whole incident. End of story....

In my view, Hornaday's years in the truck series, largely competing against bums, no-hopers, and rookies, and spent there because he lacked the class to move up a level to Nationwide, have bred in him a kind of arrogance that expects people to always get out of his way. He could not on the day deal with a much bigger fish unready to take manure from anyone, let alone the sainted Ron.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

You call it a 'bobble', I call it moving up without first checking to your outside- and what, by the way, was Hornaday's spotter doing not calling Hornaday to check back and drop in behind Busch? Ron moved up the track; that initiated the whole incident. End of story....

He had already moved his racing line up to avoid the lapped truck, the back end got loose and Ron chased it up the track. I don't think he moved up without checking as you claim, but that is a matter of opinion that you and I will never see the same.

In my view, Hornaday's years in the truck series, largely competing against bums, no-hopers, and rookies, and spent there because he lacked the class to move up a level to Nationwide, have bred in him a kind of arrogance that expects people to always get out of his way. He could not on the day deal with a much bigger fish unready to take manure from anyone, let alone the sainted Ron.

OK, so you don't like Ron and can't the highlighted statement be used for Kyle? Not that this has anything to do with anything....