Has "sportsmanship" gone from F1? - Page 3

chillibowl · 30 Mar 2013, 17:01 (Ref:3226958)

interesting times. society is more civilized today and as you say we are a society of laws but its not against the law to lie yet we criticize those that do so with out asking why they are telling that lie or why it has become so natural of a thing to do despite our society being more 'civilized'.

the fact that our society is so litigious (a function of our being more civilized) means telling a lie today is preferable to telling the truth as telling the truth gets used against you. telling the truth is even more damning in the court of public opinion where everything you say will live on for ever online. there is no oath of office to be an athlete so where does this expectation come from that they should be held up to this standard?

in their place, what do you do? tell the truth or throw out some vague equivocation and stand behind your ability to deny deny deny and try to avoid exposing yourself to the opinion of anyone who has access to a typewriter or keyboard. protect yourself at all times which incidentally is something Webber should have done. on a side note part of me thinks that the scared faces on the pitwall was because they thought MW would have put a wheel into SV for doing what he did. i suspect if he had many would say SV deserved it and we wouldnt be talking about sportsmanship. to his credit he did not, but being a better man is not something they had out titles for.

anyways some will read this and think im advocating lying but im not. if a have a point, and as always its debatable if i do

, its that people need to stop looking up to athletes as role models. when fame and fortune (both in massive quantities) are on the line people dont act according to the same moral compass as we ourselves expect to be treated by and if you do expect them too you are only asking to be let down. it has always been this way.

i think i see a lot of that when i read this thread. many are disappointed as if their reality has been shattered by this realization that sports figures are not heroes and seem unwilling to accept that we dont really know these people at all so it is a bit unreasonable that we feel let down by their actions. just because they are capable of winning it might be natural to hold them up to a higher standard but the reality is that over time so few have ever managed to live up to it. i would say sadly but the vast majority never have or never will and frankly its not what they are there for.

so its not a question of 'where has sportsmanship gone'. it has always been an elusive quality no matter what era you look at and quite frankly one that applies to sports as a way to justify our love for competition which is an inherently unfriendly thing to do.

most likely im missing the point on this and its quite possible that i only feel this way because im cynical but there you have my two cents on sportsmanship in pro sports.

JeremySmith · 30 Mar 2013, 17:03 (Ref:3226961)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Quite wrong IMO. If it was unsporting when someone else did it, it is unsporting now. The personalities have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Ergo, there is no point comparing, because all you do is put a personal spin on it.

Vettel was wrong, full stop. If the roles were reversed Webber would have been wrong.

Peter you have hit the nail on the head, agree %100...

Vettel drives for a team of six hundred people, plain and simple... Two race ban was in order !

**Bononi** · 30 Mar 2013, 17:29 (Ref:3226973)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Peter you have hit the nail on the head, agree %100...

Vettel drives for a team of six hundred people, plain and simple... Two race ban was in order !

I bet this never is going to happen.

bauble · 30 Mar 2013, 20:48 (Ref:3227036)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

I bet this never is going to happen.

In most organisations deliberately disobeying the boss's orders would lead to dismissal, or demotion. But then we are talking about Formula 1.

**Aysedasi** · 30 Mar 2013, 20:58 (Ref:3227038)

Of course it won't happen. Bench the golden boy? Not a chance.

**Bononi** · 31 Mar 2013, 00:06 (Ref:3227077)

And like a spoiled child I'm sure he knew nothing would happen.

jedrinck · 31 Mar 2013, 00:16 (Ref:3227079)

Some seem to forget the team order was for Vettel to stay behind Webber! Hardly a case of him being favored.

**Aysedasi** · 31 Mar 2013, 07:35 (Ref:3227135)

But he didn't stay behind so clearly couldn't accept not being favoured.......

chunder · 31 Mar 2013, 07:50 (Ref:3227138)

I think we all know the reason why Vettel did what he did is because he KNEW full well that nothing much would be done about it.

Can you imagine what would have happened if Massa hadn't moved over in Germany, or Barrichello all those years ago, can you imagine the team ethic at McLaren had Hakkinen not beaten Coulthard at Melbourne?

I bet history would have been slightly different

The difference is that Webber was not moving over, he was driving to a plan I guess. And Vettel chose to ignore it because he showed his weak side, his petulant, childish throw the teddies out if you cant win and cant get what you want side.

Its why out of the car we all love him, but we cant warm to him as much as we want to. He is a typical manufactured machine German style! Just like his Dad, sorry Michael

**Aysedasi** · 31 Mar 2013, 09:04 (Ref:3227163)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

Its why out of the car we all love him....

Hmmm. Let's not go too far, eh?

Knowlesy · 31 Mar 2013, 09:49 (Ref:3227168)

But Ayse, he's so quirky and wacky!

**Aysedasi** · 31 Mar 2013, 10:49 (Ref:3227182)

I suppose that's one (polite) way to describe him!

jedrinck · 31 Mar 2013, 11:03 (Ref:3227186)

This is becoming a bit strange. Isn't Rosberg a typical German machine for staying behind Hamilton, too? No other driver who has a heart would bear not going for the gap like a true racing driver?

We urgently need the next GP!

MarkG · 31 Mar 2013, 11:25 (Ref:3227191)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedrinck

This is becoming a bit strange. Isn't Rosberg a typical German machine for staying behind Hamilton, too? No other driver who has a heart would bear not going for the gap like a true racing driver?

We urgently need the next GP!

The thing is, Rosberg showed his inner competitiveness by his evident "chomping at the bit" behind Hamilton, but he is to be commended for his restraint I feel. He came away from the race-meeting with some honour I would say, and additionally, I think Brawn was wrong not to just let the cars change position, even if they then eased to the flag without attempting to make an unrealistic challenge to the Red Bulls. I don't believe Hamilton would have had an issue if Rosberg was allowed to take the place. I'm meaning at the time it would have happened, not in the after-race interviews.

Marbot · 31 Mar 2013, 16:25 (Ref:3227269)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedrinck

This is becoming a bit strange. Isn't Rosberg a typical German machine for staying behind Hamilton, too? No other driver who has a heart would bear not going for the gap like a true racing driver?

Reminds me of an Ayrton Senna quote: "And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win."

**Aysedasi** · 31 Mar 2013, 16:56 (Ref:3227280)

But no-one would have dared to tell Ayrton to hold position.....

Marbot · 31 Mar 2013, 17:07 (Ref:3227284)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

But no-one would have dared to tell Ayrton to hold position.....

Indeed. He was definitely not a team player, and would have done what Vettel did under the exact same circumstances, and probably would have been less likely to apologize for that action.

JeremySmith · 31 Mar 2013, 17:11 (Ref:3227287)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Indeed. He was definitely not a team player, and would have done what Vettel did under the exact same circumstances, and probably would have been less likely to apologize for that action.

I think the real issue here is that many people are just plain fed up with Vettel winning everything...

Mark could have run him off the road, but choose not too..

**Aysedasi** · 31 Mar 2013, 17:28 (Ref:3227299)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Indeed. He was definitely not a team player, and would have done what Vettel did under the exact same circumstances, and probably would have been less likely to apologize for that action.

He wouldn't have been asked by the team to do it and therefore would have had nothing to apologise for.

If Vettel is to be the out and out #1 at RB, let Horner and co have the courage of their convictions and make that clear to both drivers.

MarkG · 31 Mar 2013, 17:29 (Ref:3227300)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I think the real issue here is that many people are just plain fed up with Vettel winning everything...

Mark could have run him off the road, but choose not too..

This is true, as people were (I suppose, I know I was) with Schumacher doing the same thing.

And regarding Senna, I know he was ruthless, but at least he had a driver in Prost who could match him, and could be just as ruthless in his own way. Probably, with no team orders then, they just had to be ruthless to gain the upper hand. It's not quite the same "ruthlessness" as having absolute No1 position and all that that entails.

Plus, we're talking (in my view) about completely different drivers. They were at alien level of skill. Obvious even in lesser machinery.

JeremySmith · 31 Mar 2013, 18:39 (Ref:3227323)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkG

This is true, as people were (I suppose, I know I was) with Schumacher doing the same thing.

And regarding Senna, I know he was ruthless, but at least he had a driver in Prost who could match him, and could be just as ruthless in his own way. Probably, with no team orders then, they just had to be ruthless to gain the upper hand. It's not quite the same "ruthlessness" as having absolute No1 position and all that that entails.

Plus, we're talking (in my view) about completely different drivers. They were at alien level of skill. Obvious even in lesser machinery.

There is also an underlying issue with some people I think, Sebastian is of course German, many fans feel rather burnt by the Michael Schumacher era when at times it seemed somewhat pointless to even watch a Grand Prix because we would know the result ahead of time..

I like Sebastian by the way he is a super talent,I have always found him to be articulate and very bright, one of the very best in a super super race car..
I was disappointed more than anything by his antics and lack of respect for his team and team mate at Sepang..

**Aysedasi** · 31 Mar 2013, 19:22 (Ref:3227338)

I'm partially the opposite. I don't like him. And it's a shame in a way that he's given me proper justification now for not liking him over and above the weak excuses I had before.....

JeremySmith · 31 Mar 2013, 19:45 (Ref:3227345)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I'm partially the opposite. I don't like him. And it's a shame in a way that he's given me proper justification now for not liking him over and above the weak excuses I had before.....

I can not come to that conclusion about someone I do not know personally, but then I did say I liked him which also is not based on much to be honest..

jedrinck · 31 Mar 2013, 21:02 (Ref:3227376)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Reminds me of an Ayrton Senna quote: "And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win."

That's what I was getting at. In particular how great everybody seemed to think that quote was.

**Bononi** · 1 Apr 2013, 02:04 (Ref:3227445)

The quote is great by his depth and true view of a racing driver or because is plain wrong ?