Will Lewis Hamilton ever win another F1 WDC?

[Born Racer]

Okay, I'll respond to your sophsticated analysis of brains and balls.

I think Hamilton now drives with a more measured approach in terms of his brains and still used his balls as you refer to them.

In short, he is becoming a more complete drive (like Alonso) while retaining a lot of speed. So why the hell could he not win another?

With all due respect to the OP, for me the question is surplus to requirements. A lot of them could in the right car. I see nothing from Hamilton than makes him less likely than an Alonso (who did what you would probably call "a Hamilton" in Malaysia and fail to use his brains) or a Vettel to win a championship.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by GT6

With all that going for him Captain Slow could win the WDC

Do you mean Jensen?

Yeah with Nando, Seb and Hammy all being so close, whoevers in the best car will win. The latter two will only get more consistent over the next few years (but Nando probably a bit slower).

When you've got guys like Rosberg massively outscoring a 7 time champion over 3 years, and KR back on form, it's a field with some great talent!

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by peckstar

ha ha. Ive written 2 posts where i have discussed why Hamilton wont win anotehr F1 WDC and one where i have said i wont be discussing your off topic post (now this where you publically berate me and cause me to defend my self)

youve written 4 and havent discussed it once.

whos doing the derailling

thank you and please discuss the topic at hand

Hamilton will slay his enemies without mercy. He will not simply win the WC, he will conquer the title and crush his enemies underfoot.

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by eps

Don't get me wrong, I like his pace and exuberance on the race track, but I just don't think it suits his style and may never do, unless refuelling is brought back in.

No, NO!
Refueling should NEVER be brought back, it's blighted proper racing in this sport for long enough.
Say what you will about the rules atm, at least they encourage the race to be settled on track and none of that backing off and waiting for the driver ahead to pit nonsense.

As to the topic at hand, well I can see Lewis' career going a lot like Jenson's
How long was JB in the wilderness before finding the right machine underneath him to get the job done?
Then that springboarded him to being a regular front runner and race winner.

Lewis still has youth on his side and although he probably won't be troubling the stats of the greatest winner of all time (which will probably be Vettel in all likelyhood) he could well win a couple more titles and run up numbers a lot like his old hero Senna, especially if Vettel does a proper Schuey and spends a couple of years building a non-Front running team around him.

Both of them are much younger than Newey...guy's gotta retire or even go design his boats, like he's threatened to, eventually...

[eps]

Originally Posted by codename_47

No, NO!
Refueling should NEVER be brought back, it's blighted proper racing in this sport for long enough.
Say what you will about the rules atm, at least they encourage the race to be settled on track and none of that backing off and waiting for the driver ahead to pit nonsense.

As to the topic at hand, well I can see Lewis' career going a lot like Jenson's
How long was JB in the wilderness before finding the right machine underneath him to get the job done?
Then that springboarded him to being a regular front runner and race winner.

Lewis still has youth on his side and although he probably won't be troubling the stats of the greatest winner of all time (which will probably be Vettel in all likelyhood) he could well win a couple more titles and run up numbers a lot like his old hero Senna, especially if Vettel does a proper Schuey and spends a couple of years building a non-Front running team around him.

Both of them are much younger than Newey...guy's gotta retire or even go design his boats, like he's threatened to, eventually...

I 100% agree that refuelling shouldn't return. I didn't actually say that it should

I just think that Lewis' strengths were in a car that he could push 100% of the time. At the moment he is constrained by tyre and fuel limits. It was just something that I started to consider. I am not saying he's not a talented driver, because he quite plainly is. He's at least top 5 in the current crop. What I am attempting to point out is that due to the constraints faced by a current F1 driver I don't think that it lends itself well to his style of driving. I am also aware that the differences are very small, but that they are there nevertheless and that I can't see him winning a WDC whilst the cars are how they are. I can see him winning a race or two, but just not with enough consistency to allow him to be a title challenger. Even JB who sometimes looked slow and out of sorts with the McLaren half the time, looks more likely to gain a WDC at the moment than Lewis.

[Teretonga]

Hamilton has the skill and ability to take another championship, as do Fernando, Vettel, Rosberg, (Yes I think so) Kimi, and some others (Webber? Button?). The whole championship is wide open at present and the teams relatively close.

[formerf1champ]

When I think of the huge wave of fanaticism that came with him during his first couple of years in F1, expecting to be the dominant driver in F1 for the following decade. It's interesting to observe how people are now coming round to the fact 08 may be his only title. The fact the question is asked raises an eyebrow, I couldn't imagine such a thread would've been started four years ago.

[Paradise City]

I think people might have thought that Hamilton was going to inaugurate a new Senna/Prost era or at least a Hakkinen/Coulthard era of sustained success.

Maybe Hambo got cocky by winning the WC too early. Maybe if he'd won later after having had more of an experience of defeat, he'd be a more mature driver and readier to contend for those championships. Mclaren delivering a car fit for purpose would've been instrumental in that.

Newey, Vettel and Renault will likely be king of the castle for a long time to come and will likely land on their feet with these new rules. Hamilton seems to be out in the cold for the foreseeable future.

[Bononi]

Hopefully not.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I think people might have thought that Hamilton was going to inaugurate a new Senna/Prost era or at least a Hakkinen/Coulthard era of sustained success.

Maybe Hambo got cocky by winning the WC too early. Maybe if he'd won later after having had more of an experience of defeat, he'd be a more mature driver and readier to contend for those championships. Mclaren delivering a car fit for purpose would've been instrumental in that.

Newey, Vettel and Renault will likely be king of the castle for a long time to come and will likely land on their feet with these new rules. Hamilton seems to be out in the cold for the foreseeable future.

I disagree with you on the WC too early thing because I think that he fully understands the challenge of the WDC now. Perhaps he was a bit shellshocked to see Vettel sweep away his star, but I disagree he would otherwise be a more mature driver. I think he's mature, driving maturely and showing plenty of promise for future championships (if the car's in the right place).

eps, I think the tyre preservation situation means his raw speed is less of an advantage than it once was, but not enough to hamper him massively. He's driving fine.

[stripedcat]

I think he underestimated actually how difficult F1 is. He did have the benefit of a very good car for his first two seasons. Perhaps he didn't appreciate that there are also other talented drivers out there - not just his former nemesis Alosno, but he didn't see Vettel coming(should have taken notice after the race in Monza in 2008) and also some what under estimated the skill of his former teammate Button(he can out-qualify him, but in the wet/dry races Button seems to come out on top).

There is no doubting that he has a tremendous amount of talent, but does he have the work ethic of someone like Alonso or Vettel? I haven't seen much evidence of that at the moment. Molding a team around you is a skill that the multiple WDCs seem to have(e.g. Senna, Prost, Stewart, Alonso and Vettel).

He is taking a big risk with Mercedes. He has to hope that Brawn stays on there for one thing. Plus, getting hoping that Paddy Lowe can produce the goods for next year.

[beau1]

Lewis is the type of driver that will never dominate a championship. I suppose you could say that anything could happen but I doubt he'll never be like Vettel, Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Mansell etc. Even if he has far and away the fastest car I just can't see him winning a championship with a couple of races to spare. I imagine him to be a little like Button in that respect; perhaps have a great start to a season but struggle to get the championship towards the end.

With this in mind; I think he is about as likely to win the championship as Alonso and Raikkonen with outside bets on Massa, Webber (if Ferrari let him) and Button. At the end of the day all of these drivers have had the opportunity to win a championship as Lewis has. You then have the upcoming drivers that could be the 'next big thing like Perez, Rosberg or even Grosjean. In other words Lewis is going to find it tough to find a good car without a good driver alongside him; he's already got a fairly large task with Rosberg this year. He won't have an easy ride to the title like he did with Kovalinen in 2008.

All of this comes together makes me think that Hamilton could win another championship but the odds are stacked against him at the moment. Lets assume he doesn't win a championship with Mercedes; he'll be 31 by then and there will be other new drivers added to the list above. Will the Hamilton name still be worth as much as it is now? It is arguably already a step down to Mercedes; in 2015 he could find himself in the wilderness like other one-time champions such as Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve. It could be disasterous for Hamilton's career if Alonso, Raikkonen, Button or any other young upcoming driver apart from Vettel wins a championship as they will most likely still be around in 2015.

I fancy he's going to be a little bit like Mansell; always there, always quick but the occasional dull moment or team-mishap will prevent him from getting a title unless he gets a very lucky deal (like Button in 2009).
Hamilton still seems to have poor second halves of seasons even if they aren't always his fault and this is another reason why he may not clinch another championship.

[chillibowl]

part of me thinks that once you have won one the chances are higher that you will win another. im not a stats guy but i feel like he has already done the hardest thing when he got his first one out of the way.

Originally Posted by beau1

All of this comes together makes me think that Hamilton could win another championship but the odds are stacked against him at the moment. Lets assume he doesn't win a championship with Mercedes; he'll be 31 by then and there will be other new drivers added to the list above. Will the Hamilton name still be worth as much as it is now?

good question. i hate to bring nationalism into this, but without any other British up and comers on that list i think he will still be just as valuable as he is today. unless of course he becomes slow.

thats more of a business argument but i think because of it he will always be able to find himself a seat on one of the top teams and that means chances to win.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by beau1

Lewis is the type of driver that will never dominate a championship. I suppose you could say that anything could happen but I doubt he'll never be like Vettel, Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Mansell etc. Even if he has far and away the fastest car I just can't see him winning a championship with a couple of races to spare. I imagine him to be a little like Button in that respect; perhaps have a great start to a season but struggle to get the championship towards the end.

I fancy he's going to be a little bit like Mansell; always there, always quick but the occasional dull moment or team-mishap will prevent him from getting a title unless he gets a very lucky deal (like Button in 2009).
Hamilton still seems to have poor second halves of seasons even if they aren't always his fault and this is another reason why he may not clinch another championship.

I think Hamilton is faster than Mansell though, and at this point of his career is more capable of taking a team to championships. DOn't know what his work ethic is like now, but maybe better than Nige. Didn't Nige bugger off to golf games while other drivers would be working with the team?

I think I'd leave Senna and Mansell out of that list - they're just as likely to blow a championship with 2 races to go than win one. Sorry Senna fans, but someone who knows how to win championships doesn't hit the wall with nearly a one minute lead. They both should have won more championships than they did. So should Schumacher - but all the titles he narrowly missed weren't from his own doing.

But definitely Alonso, Prost, Schumacher even Kimi and Seb, know how to win a championship when the heat comes on. Maybe Seb.... he could just have easily blown 2010 and 12 - he nearly did in 2012.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I think people might have thought that Hamilton was going to inaugurate a new Senna/Prost era or at least a Hakkinen/Coulthard era of sustained success.

It did seem so.

Originally Posted by stripedcat

There is no doubting that he has a tremendous amount of talent, but does he have the work ethic of someone like Alonso or Vettel?

I'm not sure we're in a position to comment. How would we know?

Originally Posted by beau1

Lewis is the type of driver that will never dominate a championship. I suppose you could say that anything could happen but I doubt he'll never be like Vettel, Schumacher, Senna, Prost, Mansell etc. Even if he has far and away the fastest car I just can't see him winning a championship with a couple of races to spare. I imagine him to be a little like Button in that respect; perhaps have a great start to a season but struggle to get the championship towards the end.

Again, I'm not sure that's fair because he's become a much more rounded driver since the beginning of 2012. I do, however, get that sense that it's a bit tense and on a fine point with him over a season, like 2007 and especially 2008. I remember James Allen's "he doesn't make it easy for himself, does he?" comment.

Originally Posted by Razzzor

But definitely Alonso, Prost, Schumacher even Kimi and Seb, know how to win a championship when the heat comes on. Maybe Seb.... he could just have easily blown 2010 and 12 - he nearly did in 2012.

But Alonso's missed a few at the last moment too. I'm not sure you can say he's necessarily better at dealing with the heat. Look at the decision making in Abu Dhabi 2010 or the slightly dodgy race in Brazil 2012 (he didn't make it work in Brazil 2007 either).

[Adam43]

I think Lewis is the type of driver that given a vastly superior car would dominate. He would be a bit like Mansell.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I think Lewis is the type of driver that given a vastly superior car would dominate. He would be a bit like Mansell.

the evidence would suggest you are correct.

Thus he has one championship and unlikely to have another one

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I think Lewis is the type of driver that given a vastly superior car would dominate. He would be a bit like Mansell.

But Mansell's 1992 domination was more down to his experience at that point. He had the best car in 86 and 87 but couldn't get it done either year.

If I had the dominant car, Prost is the one I'd be putting in it to get it home every race.

[Bononi]

That's something to think about. IHMO, I'm not sure if that's the case, but basically nowadays the superiority of the car is crucial.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Didn't Nige bugger off to golf games while other drivers would be working with the team?

Can it be confirmed that this happened throughout Nigel's career, as opposed to just specific times or in Indycars?

Originally Posted by Born Racer

But Alonso's missed a few at the last moment too. I'm not sure you can say he's necessarily better at dealing with the heat.

I'm sure I can.

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Look at the decision making in Abu Dhabi 2010

That was not his decision. I think Chris Dyer got demoted for that.

Originally Posted by Born Racer

or the slightly dodgy race in Brazil 2012 (he didn't make it work in Brazil 2007 either).

Slightly dodgy??? Man, it's a bit harsh to hold it against a guy for not winning the race, in terrible conditions.


As far as '07 is concerned, the Ferrari's happened to be better suited to the circuit, and Alonso drove the Mclaren at closer to optimal pace than what Hamilton did. A lot closer.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Alonso did just about everything he could in Brazil 2012. What Vettel did that day was more crucial to the WDC.

2007 the Reds took off all weekend, it was almost crystal clear that without reliability or strategy hiccups they would 1 2 and Kimi would likely be the winner. Alonso finished third but really his championship was doomed in Fuji.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

But Mansell's 1992 domination was more down to his experience at that point.

That's a fair observation. Experience would contribute to being a better driver, in any circumstance.

Originally Posted by Razzzor

He had the best car in 86 and 87 but couldn't get it done either year.

This comes across as rather flippant. While the FW11 was a great car, the best in '86 and '87. It was not as superior, relative to it's opposition, as the FW14B was. Hence, Prost had a chance to win in '86, and won three races in '87 (which is a a lot, when you study the season). You can't just say "Driver has the best car, so..." You've got to put things in perspective. He did win 13 races over those two years, with the next best being Piquet and Prost on 7. So titles or title positions may not tell a clear cut accurate picture of what happened.

Originally Posted by Razzzor

If I had the dominant car, Prost is the one I'd be putting in it to get it home every race.

This is my point. In theory, I'd agree with you, since I think Prost is the best racing driver of all time, so far. However, Mansell and Prost both got to race, in effect, the same car, the FW14B and 15C. Both won titles with it. But you won't be fooling me in trying to diminish Mansell in the slightest way and boosting Prost. If it wasn't for non-driving errors, Prost might've won 1 or 2 more races in '93, on top of being handed the British and German GPs. Mansell in 92, if it weren't for non-driving errors, with the possible exception of Canada (but not definite exception), would've won every race.

So, who would you reaaallly have in your dominant car?


Also, Mansell>Hamilton.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

That was not his decision. I think Chris Dyer got demoted for that.


Slightly dodgy??? Man, it's a bit harsh to hold it against a guy for not winning the race, in terrible conditions.

this is the classic Alonso conundrum for me. when he gets it right its because he is the best and when he gets it wrong its someone else's fault. teflonso!

to his credit he does amazing to get close. cant take that away from him but when it comes down to the wire/last race his record, whatever the reason, he just comes up short.

getting back on topic, by contrast when LH is close he won it once by luck and lost it once because he was inexperienced (or so the non fanboys would say)...regardless though he carries his victories and failures on his own shoulders...not so with Alonso.

agree to disagree but not getting around Petrov was pathetic. Alonso fans really need to own up to that one imo.

[garcon]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Also, Mansell>Hamilton.

I didn't really care much for Mansell either, but I do agree with this.

Whether that's still the case come the end of Hamilton's career maybe another matter.

[Paradise City]

I think Hambo is faster but Mansell is stronger.